Douglas Carswell: UKIP needs a 'fresh face' as leader

Douglas Carswell: UKIP needs a 'fresh face' as leader

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Countdown

40,195 posts

198 months

Saturday 19th December 2015
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Countdown said:
What about the statement that there were 7000 HIV cases, of which 60% were not British citizens? is that sufficient for you?
And how was he wrong?
.
There weren't 7000 new cases and 60% weren't non UK citizens.

Other than that, you're right. He was telling the truth.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

137 months

Saturday 19th December 2015
quotequote all
Greg66 said:
alfie2244 said:
What puzzles, yet at the same time amuses, me is why so many of you are so vociferous in your continued, vitriolic attacks on what they consider to be a no hope political party with a no hope leader....go figure.
Think of it more as charity work. Trying to help those who have been sucked in.
Who would you have those who believe in a Brexit vote for, out of interest?

Labour - no
Lib Dems - no
SNP - no
The Tories under Cameron? Genuinely laughable, a few overtures and soundbites, nawt more rofl

Voting for parties like UKIP helps show the mainstream parties where the electorate are standing - the only problem is that they aren't listening. If anyone believes our current government is in favour of serious, meaningful and far reaching renegotiation then they must be potty, frankly.

If you are happy with our EU membership at present then by all means, vote for the usual suspects, let them know you support every closer union with our European....... friends.

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 19th December 2015
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Scuffers said:
jjlynn27 said:
Where does it say that 60% are not British citizens? As for the quality of the article itself I'll leave you with this pearl of wisdom; 'Hepatitis B is equally devastating as HIV'.
It doesn't, it does say:

link said:
Of the 107,800 people estimated by Public Health England to be HIV positive an astonishing 59,300 are originally from Africa.
That's 55% are from Africa, so unless your suggesting that no others arrived from any other continent, i would suggest 60% is probably a little low.

So, want to pick another so called lie?



Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 19th December 18:32
This was gone over what felt like a million times before

Farage was talking about the new cases per year, not the overall number so you're already quoting a source not related to his statement.

The official NHS numbers for 2013 stated 6000 new diagnoses, if you would care to take a look a figures 4 and 7 the % infected abroad is much lower than 60% and declining if you compare to 2012

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

As far as I'm aware Farage never backed his 7,000 up with a source-he was wrong and should have done his research properly beforehand.

jjlynn27

Original Poster:

7,935 posts

111 months

Saturday 19th December 2015
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steveT350C said:
jjlynn27 said:
'Hepatitis B is equally devastating as HIV'.
That is wrong... Hepatitis B is a much bigger global concern than HIV.
Is it? I'd like to know more, HPB and HPC and resulting illnesses were resulting in 1mil deaths per year. HIV 1.5mil from quick google. I'd still say that devastating effects of HPB and HIV are not comparable, regardless of global concerns. You work in medical field, IIRC, for you to link that article is somewhat baffling.

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 19th December 2015
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Funny how a 1 man band needs a leader. The Greens are in the same boat...

Scuffers

20,887 posts

276 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
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cookie118 said:
This was gone over what felt like a million times before

Farage was talking about the new cases per year, not the overall number so you're already quoting a source not related to his statement.

The official NHS numbers for 2013 stated 6000 new diagnoses, if you would care to take a look a figures 4 and 7 the % infected abroad is much lower than 60% and declining if you compare to 2012

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

As far as I'm aware Farage never backed his 7,000 up with a source-he was wrong and should have done his research properly beforehand.
what's funny with this stuff is that you link to a report, then can't even quote it accurately.

link said:
In 2013 in the UK, 6,000 people were diagnosed with HIV infection and 320 people were reported with AIDS.
so, that's 6,320.

I would also argue the 6,000 figure is clearly not accurate, no way is it a round number, and reading the rest of the report, it's pretty much all best guess stuff.

as for the origins of the new diagnosis patients, it simply avoids getting into this, I assume for political reasons, (reading the whole report, there seems to be a lot of 'assumptions' built in to make it look like a domestic issue rather than an imported one, with phrases like "Numbers have been adjusted for missing exposure category and region of birth")

Look, you can huff and puff all you like, you cannot escape the simple fact that it's a problem, and one that costs the NHS a shed load.

But I guess you don't care about that, so long as you can continue to shriek out at Farage?




powerstroke

10,283 posts

162 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
Axionknight said:
Greg66 said:
alfie2244 said:
What puzzles, yet at the same time amuses, me is why so many of you are so vociferous in your continued, vitriolic attacks on what they consider to be a no hope political party with a no hope leader....go figure.
Think of it more as charity work. Trying to help those who have been sucked in.
Who would you have those who believe in a Brexit vote for, out of interest?

Labour - no
Lib Dems - no
SNP - no
The Tories under Cameron? Genuinely laughable, a few overtures and soundbites, nawt more rofl

Voting for parties like UKIP helps show the mainstream parties where the electorate are standing - the only problem is that they aren't listening. If anyone believes our current government is in favour of serious, meaningful and far reaching renegotiation then they must be potty, frankly.

If you are happy with our EU membership at present then by all means, vote for the usual suspects, let them know you support every closer union with our European....... friends.
Oh but this referendum on EU membership is just for the purpose of setlling the torys infighting over europe !!! the public love the EU According to labour ,SNP ,BBC Guardian and other far left sources.....

steveT350C

6,728 posts

163 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
steveT350C said:
jjlynn27 said:
'Hepatitis B is equally devastating as HIV'.
That is wrong... Hepatitis B is a much bigger global concern than HIV.
Is it? I'd like to know more, HPB and HPC and resulting illnesses were resulting in 1mil deaths per year. HIV 1.5mil from quick google. I'd still say that devastating effects of HPB and HIV are not comparable, regardless of global concerns. You work in medical field, IIRC, for you to link that article is somewhat baffling.
I linked the article because Scuffers referred to it.

I assume you are equating the use of the word 'devastating' with 'death'? An easy mistake to make if one works in the trolling field.

2 billion people have been infected with HepB virus compared with 37million with HIV.

According to the WHO, of those 2bn, an estimated 350million have chronic hepatitis and about 1million die annually compared with 1.5million from HIV.



jjlynn27

Original Poster:

7,935 posts

111 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
steveT350C said:
jjlynn27 said:
steveT350C said:
jjlynn27 said:
'Hepatitis B is equally devastating as HIV'.
That is wrong... Hepatitis B is a much bigger global concern than HIV.
Is it? I'd like to know more, HPB and HPC and resulting illnesses were resulting in 1mil deaths per year. HIV 1.5mil from quick google. I'd still say that devastating effects of HPB and HIV are not comparable, regardless of global concerns. You work in medical field, IIRC, for you to link that article is somewhat baffling.
I linked the article because Scuffers referred to it.

I assume you are equating the use of the word 'devastating' with 'death'? An easy mistake to make if one works in the trolling field.

2 billion people have been infected with HepB virus compared with 37million with HIV.

According to the WHO, of those 2bn, an estimated 350million have chronic hepatitis and about 1million die annually compared with 1.5million from HIV.
No, I'm equating word 'devastating' with effect on people infected with a certain disease. You assume very many things, most of them wrong. The article, once again, is idiotic. Unsurprisingly, troglodytes would see that as a proof 'our Nigel was right, look at the number of foreigners coming over with diseases!!!'. The fact that the paper that article was 'based on' doesn't mention immigration at all, is, quite obviously, irrelevant. Using your figures, even if you chose to disregard effects on people infected with HepB vs HIV, 1.5mil out of 37mil die from HIV, while 1mil out of 2bn or 350mil (whichever number you wish to choose) would die from induced illnesses. Do you think that they are equally devastating?

I'm still waiting on maths showing how did they come up with figure of 59,300.


tangerine_sedge

4,862 posts

220 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
Come on guys stay on topic. Less talk of aids and more talk of why the only elected ukip MP should have a pop at Herr Farage.

If only Herr Farage had managed to get himself elected at least once from the many times he tried, he could then look Carswell in the eye as an equal...

RYH64E

7,960 posts

246 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
Come on guys stay on topic. Less talk of aids and more talk of why the only elected ukip MP should have a pop at Herr Farage.

If only Herr Farage had managed to get himself elected at least once from the many times he tried, he could then look Carswell in the eye as an equal...
As the great man himself observed “It is frankly just not credible for me to continue to lead the party without a Westminster seat", so following that logic to it's conclusion, there's only one credible candidate for the leadership...

s2art

18,939 posts

255 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
RYH64E said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Come on guys stay on topic. Less talk of aids and more talk of why the only elected ukip MP should have a pop at Herr Farage.

If only Herr Farage had managed to get himself elected at least once from the many times he tried, he could then look Carswell in the eye as an equal...
As the great man himself observed “It is frankly just not credible for me to continue to lead the party without a Westminster seat", so following that logic to it's conclusion, there's only one credible candidate for the leadership...
However Carswell said he didnt want the job. What now?

Countdown

40,195 posts

198 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
Come on guys stay on topic. Less talk of aids and more talk of why the only elected ukip MP should have a pop at Herr Farage.

If only Herr Farage had managed to get himself elected at least once from the many times he tried, he could then look Carswell in the eye as an equal...
I think because DC knows that the Farage brand is toxic to the "Quit EU" campaign. There may well be many people who would otherwise be inclined to a "No" vote but can't align themselves to a party that is led by NF.

s2art

18,939 posts

255 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
Countdown said:
I think because DC knows that the Farage brand is toxic to the "Quit EU" campaign. There may well be many people who would otherwise be inclined to a "No" vote but can't align themselves to a party that is led by NF.
Dont believe that for a second. They are voting in a referendum, not for UKIP. Farage will just be one voice amongst many in the lead up to the referendum. How many people would be inclined to vote in, but then choose to vote out because Corbyn will speak (for Labour) on the in side?

Scuffers

20,887 posts

276 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
Countdown said:
I think because DC knows that the Farage brand is toxic to the "Quit EU" campaign. There may well be many people who would otherwise be inclined to a "No" vote but can't align themselves to a party that is led by NF.
simply don't buy that it's not like carswell is going around the country campaigning for EU exit is it? and yet Farage is doing ? nights a week campaigning, appearing almost every Public meeting, I think the whole thing about him being toxic is just dreamt up by people don't like him.

PRTVR

7,153 posts

223 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Countdown said:
I think because DC knows that the Farage brand is toxic to the "Quit EU" campaign. There may well be many people who would otherwise be inclined to a "No" vote but can't align themselves to a party that is led by NF.
simply don't buy that it's not like carswell is going around the country campaigning for EU exit is it? and yet Farage is doing ? nights a week campaigning, appearing almost every Public meeting, I think the whole thing about him being toxic is just dreamt up by people don't like him.
Have to agree, it appears as if some people would like it to be so and by repeating it it will become so, I would be interested why people think he is toxic, because I just do not see it.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

190 months

Sunday 20th December 2015
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Scuffers said:
Countdown said:
I think because DC knows that the Farage brand is toxic to the "Quit EU" campaign. There may well be many people who would otherwise be inclined to a "No" vote but can't align themselves to a party that is led by NF.
simply don't buy that it's not like carswell is going around the country campaigning for EU exit is it? and yet Farage is doing ? nights a week campaigning, appearing almost every Public meeting, I think the whole thing about him being toxic is just dreamt up by people don't like him.
Have to agree, it appears as if some people would like it to be so and by repeating it it will become so, I would be interested why people think he is toxic, because I just do not see it.
Can honestly say I have never seen or heard anyone say that they would vote UKIP but only if NF was not it's leader.

Likewise they would vote out rather than in.

Almost tempted to start a poll.....almost.



ETA Doesn't seem to be an issue for Foxy

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 20th December 22:15

Thorodin

2,459 posts

135 months

Monday 21st December 2015
quotequote all
Witness now the gradual break up of the party into factions with varying degrees of irrelevance and navel gazing. The inevitability is a shame.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

276 months

Monday 21st December 2015
quotequote all
Thorodin said:
Witness now the gradual break up of the party into factions with varying degrees of irrelevance and navel gazing. The inevitability is a shame.
in your dreams.


Axionknight

8,505 posts

137 months

Monday 21st December 2015
quotequote all
Thorodin said:
Witness now the gradual break up of the party into factions with varying degrees of irrelevance and navel gazing. The inevitability is a shame.
Are you talking about the Tory Party when they start squabbling about MPs being allowed to campaign for out?