Muslim protests in UK

[Mermaid]

essexplumber said:

Religion is crap and if you are thick or scared enough to follow one then you have my sympathy.

In short, there is no god.

Hallelujah

[essexplumber]

968 said:

I have not agreed with you in any regard about such a thing, clearly it seems you like to invent facts to suit your bizarre posts. Are you seriously suggesting that beheadings have not been carried out by other people? Have you read any history at all, in your life?

There were no beheadings.

[968]

Mermaid said:

I believe Islam needs a very good marketing campaign - do you feel the image is tainted/misunderstood/feared?

Completely. The agenda is set by lunatics on both sides, and the media who thrive on creating a climate of fear revel in this. As we've said in these discussions repeatedly, the vast majority of Muslims are entirely peaceful people who are also law abiding. Part of the problem is that there is such disagreement within different societies and sects about Islam and the agenda often follows political ends.

[kuzushi]

essexplumber said:

No he didn't. He didn't because he does not exsist!

You don't think Muhammad existed?

[essexplumber]

kuzushi said:

essexplumber said:

No he didn't. He didn't because he does not exsist!

You don't think Muhammad existed?

No.

[Mermaid]

968 said:

Mermaid said:

I believe Islam needs a very good marketing campaign - do you feel the image is tainted/misunderstood/feared?

Completely. The agenda is set by lunatics on both sides, and the media who thrive on creating a climate of fear revel in this. As we've said in these discussions repeatedly, the vast majority of Muslims are entirely peaceful people who are also law abiding. Part of the problem is that there is such disagreement within different societies and sects about Islam and the agenda often follows political ends.

I am glad we are agreed - the peaceful people need to rise for they end of paying the price. Or pay someone a few million to get their message across. But somehow I doubt that will happen.

[Countdown]

kuzushi said:

Countdown said:

@Kuzushi

You referred earlier to the Jizya tax imposed by Muslims on non-Muslims as part of their plans for world domination. Did you find any Islamic countries where this is being implemented?

Just wondered....

We have a lot of Egyptian Christian refugees in our town and one of them said something about it. I've read something about it going on in parts of Taliban controlled Pakistan.

Well you've convinced me.

[Muntu]

968 said:

The prophet was not a violent man

[kuzushi]

Countdown said:

Well you've convinced me.

Convinced you that the concept of the jizya tax exists in islam? I'd have thought you'd have heard of it before.

[968]

Mermaid said:

I am glad we are agreed - the peaceful people need to rise for they end of paying the price. Or pay someone a few million to get their message across. But somehow I doubt that will happen.

They do arise, often in the most dangerous places but sadly, when the lunatics are in possession of power and weapons their voices are silenced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19893309

As an example of an incredibly brave young 14 year old girl, who was brutally shot. Let's hope she makes a recovery, she is one of many voices that oppose the tyranny offered by the Taliban and other extremists.

[968]

kuzushi said:

Convinced you that the concept of the jizya tax exists in islam? I'd have thought you'd have heard of it before.

I think he's being sarcastic that once again, you propose something loosely based on something someone told you and some undetermined time, as fact.

[kuzushi]

968 said:

The agenda is set by lunatics on both sides, and the media who thrive on creating a climate of fear revel in this. As we've said in these discussions repeatedly, the vast majority of Muslims are entirely peaceful people who are also law abiding. Part of the problem is that there is such disagreement within different societies and sects about Islam and the agenda often follows political ends.

Islam, like many things, is open to interpretation.
I think muslims who wave placards around saying "Behead those who are rude about islam" are interpreting muslim history and the qur'an differently from how you do.

Can you explain to us your interpretation?

[Mermaid]

968 said:

Mermaid said:

I am glad we are agreed - the peaceful people need to rise for they end of paying the price. Or pay someone a few million to get their message across. But somehow I doubt that will happen.

They do arise, often in the most dangerous places but sadly, when the lunatics are in possession of power and weapons their voices are silenced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19893309

As an example of an incredibly brave young 14 year old girl, who was brutally shot. Let's hope she makes a recovery, she is one of many voices that oppose the tyranny offered by the Taliban and other extremists.

And if we had this discussion last week? That tragic example, and it is good example, should not be overburdened. Or is this a
Tunisian street trader Mohamed Bouazizi moment?

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 10th October 19:14

[Countdown]

kuzushi said:

Countdown said:

Well you've convinced me.

Convinced you that the concept of the jizya tax exists in islam? I'd have thought you'd have heard of it before.

Oh yes, I've definitely heard of it before. Something that happened several hundred years ago. But you suggested earlier that it was happening at the moment and it was a sign that islam wanted to take over the world.

[968]

kuzushi said:

Islam, like many things, is open to interpretation.
I think muslims who wave placards around saying "Behead those who are rude about islam" are interpreting muslim history and the qur'an differently from how you do.

Can you explain to us your interpretation?

I don't think there's enough room on this thread and time for me to expound my interpretations of religion and frankly it's irrelevant what I think. What's of more importance is that you realise that people have differing beliefs and interpretations which are often culturally and sometimes politically affiliated. Generalising is both unhelpful and inaccurate.

[968]

Mermaid said:

And if we had this discussion last week? That tragic example, and it is good example, should not be overburdened. Or is this a
Tunisian street trader Mohamed Bouazizi moment?

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 10th October 19:14

I think someone has already cited other examples a few pages ago, but also there are organisations that counter the extremists, which are gaining ground but get nowhere near the media representation that the extremists do, eg http://www.isb.org.uk/protest-against-poppy-burnin... or look up the Quilliam foundation. Read about Ed Hussain, author of The Islamist, which is a fascinating read.

[Mermaid]

968 said:

I think someone has already cited other examples a few pages ago, but also there are organisations that counter the extremists, which are gaining ground but get nowhere near the media representation that the extremists do, eg http://www.isb.org.uk/protest-against-poppy-burnin... or look up the Quilliam foundation. Read about Ed Hussain, author of The Islamist, which is a fascinating read.

But if we look at it from Joe Public's viewpoint, one voice gets heard and nearly always negative connotations. Do people associate terrorism with Pakistan? Gang rape? (tenuous) Quilliam et al need to turn up the volume for they are not reaching the audience that really matters - the Sun/DM readers

I remember Bill Clinton ran a TV campaign in the UK & Europe to get tourists to come over to the USA - he sold America to people, and you can be sure tourism to the USA increased at that time & some powerful images e.g.Yosemite etc always remain

IF wrong, people's perceptions need changing by a media campaign.

[kuzushi]

968 said:

I don't think there's enough room on this thread and time for me to expound my interpretations of religion and frankly it's irrelevant what I think. What's of more importance is that you realise that people have differing beliefs and interpretations which are often culturally and sometimes politically affiliated. Generalising is both unhelpful and inaccurate.

You could answer a few specific questions, if you would be so kind. For example,

1. do you believe you will go to paradise or hell when you die?
2. will all non-muslims go to hell?
3. what do you envisage paradise to be like? will you have 72 houris, or is that a misrepresentation of the religion?
4. does evolution contradict your faith?


Why is it that islam is particularly afflicted with extremist lunatics?

[968]

Mermaid said:

But if we look at it from Joe Public's viewpoint, one voice gets heard and nearly always negative connotations. Do people associate terrorism with Pakistan? Gang rape? (tenuous) Quilliam et al need to turn up the volume for they are not reaching the audience that really matters - the Sun/DM readers

I remember Bill Clinton ran a TV campaign in the UK & Europe to get tourists to come over to the USA - he sold America to people, and you can be sure tourism to the USA increased at that time & some powerful images e.g.Yosemite etc always remain

IF wrong, people's perceptions need changing by a media campaign.

The problem is that the Sun/DM will never print positive stories about these groups as it does not suit their agenda. Their agenda is to instill fear and hatred and misrepresentation. Look at the sum they choose to employ as their editors, ie Kelvin McKenzie, Rebekah Brooks etc, do you think they give a toss about being even handed and fair, as opposed to selling more papes? Running a media campaign like this requires a lot of money, and these organisations do not have the kind of money that is required to successfully change media portrayal.

[968]

kuzushi said:

You could answer a few specific questions, if you would be so kind. For example,

1. do you believe you will go to paradise or hell when you die?
2. will all non-muslims go to hell?
3. what do you envisage paradise to be like? will you have 72 houris, or is that a misrepresentation of the religion?
4. does evolution contradict your faith?


Why is it that islam is particularly afflicted with extremist lunatics?

As I've said to you before, my beliefs are irrelevant in this discussion, but I can see where your line of questioning is going. In answer to each, 1. I don't know where I'll go. If such places exist, it won't be upto me or what I believe that determines where I go. 2. No, of course not. 3. I have no idea. I'm sure that each individual has their own interpretation as such. You're feeble attempt to bring in 72 virgins etc is more nonsense and is a complete misrepresentation, but I suspect you know that. 4. No it doesn't, I'm a man of science and that is not mutually exclusive to Muslims, go and google Avicenna. And Islam is not unique in terms of association with extremists, in case you've not noticed, Anders Breivik was not a Muslim.