What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

[Zod]

Guam said:

Zod said:

Einion Yrth said:

Zod said:

Of course government doesn't create private sector jobs; that's the whole point. Government influences conditions that either encourage or discourage private sector job creation.

Government meddles constantly, at best ineffectually and at worst disastrously.

and Labour meddles far more. The results speak for themselves over each of our lifetimes. It's not difficult to understand: if business conditions matter to you, then you don't want a Labour government.

Frankly we don't want either of them, Small business is by far the largest section of employment opportunity for the nation, both parties fk over small business with equal vigor, When I am being screwed the colour of the condom being worn is immaterial to me.

Well, you are going to get one or the other, so you either select the lesser evil or you don't vote/vote for UKIP and get Labour. It's not difficult to understand.

[Zod]

DonkeyApple said:

Who are his 'shadow' cabintet? If they are serious about seizing seats in the UK and forming a coalition with the Tories so as to ensure there is a referendum then why are they doing nothing about it?

I just don't see what their objectives are and no one seems able to educate me on this.

They have none, other than, I imagine, a vague hope that by damaging the Conservatives' electoral chances, they will cause some kind of massive change in the political system that will result in the Conservative changing into Mega-UKIP and being elected in 2020 on an anti-immigration and anti-EU platform (with more spending on the Armed Forces who will not be deployed anywhere ever again, other than, perhaps, the Falklands).

[WinstonWolf]

DonkeyApple said:

WinstonWolf said:

Guam said:

Mark Benson said:

DonkeyApple said:

Again I agree, but I don't believe it is up to the British to be the morality police for mainland Europe, any more than they should be ours. If UKIPs aim is for Britain to leave the EU then why are they in the EU soaking up funding and getting involved in matters which we, if not in the EU, would have no truck with?

Surely it is better to just leave the EU than try and change it or collapse it or obstruct it? This is why I am not understanding what UKIP are up to as all I can see is another group milking us just like the Kinnocks and many others.

The Tories are the best bet for a referendum and the reality is that if one is held it will almost certainly result in a successful vote to leave. And at that point we walk away from all the people who are milking a system that is seemingly at odds with very many Britons.

I think a lot of people, me included are sceptical that the Tories will actually deliver an open and honest in/out referendum. Indeed, I'm doubtful at the moment that they'll form a majority government.

The 'Cast Iron Guarantee' (leaving the loophole for Gordon Brown to jump through by rushing to sign the treaty, which he predictably did) and the 'Bonfire of the Quangos', being the two most prominent electioneering promises not delivered.

^^^^ This!

Yup, a cast iron guarantee of a straight in/out referendum by a certain date. We've been 'promised' a referendum for long enough, the time has come for one and then we can all move on.

I believe UKIP are the only party that will deliver.

There is the nub. UKIP cannot deliver. If you want a referendum then voting for a party that can never hold one is a strange tactic.

UKIP cannot win a general election and not could they form a coalition.

The Tories are the only party holding a hope for a referendum and 2015 is going to be a close run thing between them and Labour and votes being spent on UKIP are going to strengthen Labour, the party who have stated they will never hold a referendum.

I still am not clear on what UKIP is doing in Europe other than earning a lot of money. I am yet to be convinced that UKIP isn't just a smart City chap who can earn far more peddling Daily Mail style pitches than he can working back in the City.

Who are his 'shadow' cabintet? If they are serious about seizing seats in the UK and forming a coalition with the Tories so as to ensure there is a referendum then why are they doing nothing about it?

I just don't see what their objectives are and no one seems able to educate me on this.

I voted for Dave against my better judgement last time, I won't make the same mistake again. I refuse to vote for a Green party. Join us voting UKIP, you know it is the only way to defeat Labour

[DonkeyApple]

WinstonWolf said:

I voted for Dave against my better judgement last time, I won't make the same mistake again. I refuse to vote for a Green party. Join us voting UKIP, you know it is the only way to defeat Labour

As no one can really explain that UKIP isn't just another public school politician milking the system for personal gain and as they offer absolutely no chance of the British people having a say on the EU then I have no choice but to stick to the cowardly and unlike able Dave whose party is offering me a voice on the matter. UKIP seems like one big money scam. They have no 'cabinet' members, no chance of winning the election, no ability to take part in a coalition and seem to have the only political tactic of taking potential Tory voters who don't accept the 'middle ground' thus strengthening Labours chances of winning.

The fact that no UKIP supporter has been able to detail who their cabinet would be, how they could form a coalition or just what exactly it is they are doing in Europe and why seems to speak volumes. I think they are a scam and that those at the top are making a fortune while exploiting Britons.

[4v6]

DonkeyApple said:

UKIP cannot win a general election and not could they form a coalition.

Demonstrably a false assertion.

All any party requires to win an election is "Votes".
Granted, currently Ukip is going to struggle but thats the system for you, thats why its imperative that votes from the other wastrels go to ukip.
If ukip gets enough votes it wins the election, pure numbers game.

If ukip cant win an election then why are the tories still flapping around like salmon being slapped by the bears?
Plainly ukip CAN win an election if they aquire enough votes, never say never.

[Zod]

Guam said:

Only in your paradigm, can my view be difficult to understand.

No, in a place called "the real world" (I understand that UKIP and its supporters and sympathisers don't live there).

[Zod]

4v6 said:

DonkeyApple said:

UKIP cannot win a general election and not could they form a coalition.

Demonstrably a false assertion.

All any party requires to win an election is "Votes".
Granted, currently Ukip is going to struggle but thats the system for you, thats why its imperative that votes from the other wastrels go to ukip.
If ukip gets enough votes it wins the election, pure numbers game.

If ukip cant win an election then why are the tories still flapping around like salmon being slapped by the bears?
Plainly ukip CAN win an election if they aquire enough votes, never say never.

How much will you bet on UKIP winning a general election? It is theoretically possible, but vanishingly improbable.

[4v6]

DonkeyApple said:

The fact that no UKIP supporter has been able to detail who their cabinet would be, how they could form a coalition or just what exactly it is they are doing in Europe and why seems to speak volumes. I think they are a scam and that those at the top are making a fortune while exploiting Britons.

Congrats, youve just described the entire political system.

[4v6]

Zod said:

ow much will you bet on UKIP winning a general election? It is theoretically possible, but vanishingly improbable.

Who would have bet on the libdums being in a coalition with the tories of all people, say just 5 years ago?

You need to widen your narrow focus a little and look at what can happen rather than what youre being told will happen.

[Zod]

4v6 said:

Zod said:

ow much will you bet on UKIP winning a general election? It is theoretically possible, but vanishingly improbable.

Who would have bet on the libdums being in a coalition with the tories of all people, say just 5 years ago?

You need to widen your narrow focus a little and look at what can happen rather than what youre being told will happen.

There was talk of hung Parliaments for two decades before 2010. There is no talk, other than amongst the deluded, of UKIP's winning a general election.

[Zod]

Guam said:

As opposed to your comfortable existence in the legal fraternity, when was the last time you got your hands dirty as a job of work?

The real world has many interpretations its a matter of perspective, yours and mine clearly differ, however it does not make my or anyone elses "world" less real than yours.

Did you really think that post worthy of typing out and slicking "Submit"? It is drivel.

As for the first sentence, what is the relevance of when I last got my hands dirty? Should we take notice of the views of manual workers over others? The answer, by the way, is 1989, but I have got my hands dirty on a voulntary basis on plenty of occasions since.

[Zod]

Guam said:

Agreed who on here is saying they will win it?

How many Lib dem Mps did they get at the last election, are they in coalition so in power, or not.
30 - 40 years ago folk like you were saying the same garbage you are now, only then it was labour whining, that a liberal vote would put the tories in, it was pathetic then and its pathetic now!

4v6 on this very page:

4v6 said:

DonkeyApple said:

UKIP cannot win a general election and not could they form a coalition.

Demonstrably a false assertion.

All any party requires to win an election is "Votes".
Granted, currently Ukip is going to struggle but thats the system for you, thats why its imperative that votes from the other wastrels go to ukip.
If ukip gets enough votes it wins the election, pure numbers game.

If ukip cant win an election then why are the tories still flapping around like salmon being slapped by the bears?
Plainly ukip CAN win an election if they aquire enough votes, never say never.

[4v6]

Zod said:

Guam said:

Agreed who on here is saying they will win it?

How many Lib dem Mps did they get at the last election, are they in coalition so in power, or not.
30 - 40 years ago folk like you were saying the same garbage you are now, only then it was labour whining, that a liberal vote would put the tories in, it was pathetic then and its pathetic now!

4v6 on this very page.

I think you'll find I suggested they could win AN (not THE) election if they got enough votes.
Basic reading, interpretation and comprehension skills appear lacking, no wonder they vote liblabcon.

[WinstonWolf]

DonkeyApple said:

WinstonWolf said:

I voted for Dave against my better judgement last time, I won't make the same mistake again. I refuse to vote for a Green party. Join us voting UKIP, you know it is the only way to defeat Labour

As no one can really explain that UKIP isn't just another public school politician milking the system for personal gain and as they offer absolutely no chance of the British people having a say on the EU then I have no choice but to stick to the cowardly and unlike able Dave whose party is offering me a voice on the matter. UKIP seems like one big money scam. They have no 'cabinet' members, no chance of winning the election, no ability to take part in a coalition and seem to have the only political tactic of taking potential Tory voters who don't accept the 'middle ground' thus strengthening Labours chances of winning.

The fact that no UKIP supporter has been able to detail who their cabinet would be, how they could form a coalition or just what exactly it is they are doing in Europe and why seems to speak volumes. I think they are a scam and that those at the top are making a fortune while exploiting Britons.

Did Dave lay out his cabinet before the last election? If so how, because he didn't know who was going win which seat...

Vote UKIP you know it makes sense

[Zod]

Guam said:

Zod said:

Guam said:

Agreed who on here is saying they will win it?

How many Lib dem Mps did they get at the last election, are they in coalition so in power, or not.
30 - 40 years ago folk like you were saying the same garbage you are now, only then it was labour whining, that a liberal vote would put the tories in, it was pathetic then and its pathetic now!

4v6 on this very page:

4v6 said:

DonkeyApple said:

UKIP cannot win a general election and not could they form a coalition.

Demonstrably a false assertion.

All any party requires to win an election is "Votes".
Granted, currently Ukip is going to struggle but thats the system for you, thats why its imperative that votes from the other wastrels go to ukip.
If ukip gets enough votes it wins the election, pure numbers game.

If ukip cant win an election then why are the tories still flapping around like salmon being slapped by the bears?
Plainly ukip CAN win an election if they aquire enough votes, never say never.

Statement of the obvious and highly qualified, not good at this stuff are you? Would you like me to post cats again instead?

Where does he say they WILL win it?

You are arguing like a fifth-former. He says they "can win it".

Post your cats if you think it will help to make your case.

[Zod]

Guam said:

Zod said:

Guam said:

As opposed to your comfortable existence in the legal fraternity, when was the last time you got your hands dirty as a job of work?

The real world has many interpretations its a matter of perspective, yours and mine clearly differ, however it does not make my or anyone elses "world" less real than yours.

Did you really think that post worthy of typing out and slicking "Submit"? It is drivel.

As for the first sentence, what is the relevance of when I last got my hands dirty? Should we take notice of the views of manual workers over others? The answer, by the way, is 1989, but I have got my hands dirty on a voulntary basis on plenty of occasions since.

Simples if you are going to be arrogant enough to accuse others of not living in the real world, from your comfortable existence then prepare to get slapped back for it, my world is no less real than yours, just different, my perspective experience and history is different (as are others) but we all inhabit a world that is only too real. And compared to many I have a very comfortable life myself but I dont believe someone needing a foodbank or living on a sink estate isnt in the "real world"

The fact you don't like the fact that those of us disaffected with your favourite club, may cause them some pain at the ballot box is your problem not ours.

Of course you will view what I put as drivel as it is typical of the supporters of the elite ,to disparage the average voters view.

Carry on by all means, just dont expect an easy ride.

Ah, diddums.

Your silly attempt to conflate my "comfortable" existence with your disagreement as to the nature of the real world speaks for itself. As you know, full well, the real world to which I referred is that in which UKIP poll at a level below 15% with their support not sufficiently concneeentrated to win a single seat. There is no other reality for UKIP.

[DonkeyApple]

Guam said:

So you will vote for a guy who represents exactly what you say you despise in what you feel UKIP may represent and dont see a problem with tat?

And we are accused of not getting it, so stick with the old tribal mantra and vote via inertia because you dont feel anyone else will be different to what you dislike?

I'm not voting for a guy but for a party.

I've not accused anyone of not getting it either. In fact, the exact opposite, I have stated time and again that I don't get UKIP and asked questions to which no one seems able to answer.

On the matter of the EU the only party with any ability to offer the British people a say are the Tories. No one has been able to explain just how UKIP which is really just a one man party could deliver. At the same time no one can explain just what it is they are doing in Europe.

[DonkeyApple]

WinstonWolf said:

DonkeyApple said:

WinstonWolf said:

I voted for Dave against my better judgement last time, I won't make the same mistake again. I refuse to vote for a Green party. Join us voting UKIP, you know it is the only way to defeat Labour

As no one can really explain that UKIP isn't just another public school politician milking the system for personal gain and as they offer absolutely no chance of the British people having a say on the EU then I have no choice but to stick to the cowardly and unlike able Dave whose party is offering me a voice on the matter. UKIP seems like one big money scam. They have no 'cabinet' members, no chance of winning the election, no ability to take part in a coalition and seem to have the only political tactic of taking potential Tory voters who don't accept the 'middle ground' thus strengthening Labours chances of winning.

The fact that no UKIP supporter has been able to detail who their cabinet would be, how they could form a coalition or just what exactly it is they are doing in Europe and why seems to speak volumes. I think they are a scam and that those at the top are making a fortune while exploiting Britons.

Did Dave lay out his cabinet before the last election? If so how, because he didn't know who was going win which seat...

Vote UKIP you know it makes sense

The main parties have a depth of members that makes it possible to form a cabinet. This is the vital difference.

Can you list 20 UKIP members who would be capable of being put into ministerial positions? If the major parties struggle then how can a party with only one central figure manage it?

[Zod]

Guam said:

Nice attempt at a clawback there may be hope for you yet, given what you do for a job of work, precision is everything is it not, therefore failing to post the qualifiers to your point, indicates exactly what you chose to convey I would suggest

What?

[Zod]

Guam said:

Zod said:

Guam said:

Nice attempt at a clawback there may be hope for you yet, given what you do for a job of work, precision is everything is it not, therefore failing to post the qualifiers to your point, indicates exactly what you chose to convey I would suggest

What?

Come on its not that hard to follow

Zod said:

Guam said:

Zod said:

Well, you are going to get one or the other, so you either select the lesser evil or you don't vote/vote for UKIP and get Labour. It's not difficult to understand.

Only in your paradigm, can my view be difficult to understand, its the same old nonsense I heard on the doorsteps as a Liberal activist, it wasn't true then and its not true now, to effect real change one has to make difficult decisions, your way is more of the same for eternity.

No, in a place called "the real world" (I understand that UKIP and its supporters and sympathisers don't live there).

To which qualifiers do you refer? Is it the phrase in brackets?

All I see is an attempt to avoid the argument by the straw man tactic of positing a "real world" of less advantaged people in contrast to my "comfortable existence", when it is clear that my "real world " reference was to a world in which UKIP polls <15% in contrast with a fantasy world in which UKIP will actually make a difference beyond handing the election to Labour.