Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7
Discussion
Zoobeef said:
Why can't he save on minimum wage? Or is that because he's "needed" to buy lots of things all his life which really aren't a "need".
Regardless of IQ, unless you have an illness. There's no reason you can't learn at school and get reasonable grades.
Also, who is going to clean and change the batteries on the window cleaning machines?
Because it's fRegardless of IQ, unless you have an illness. There's no reason you can't learn at school and get reasonable grades.
Also, who is going to clean and change the batteries on the window cleaning machines?
king peanuts?Are you having a laugh? No meaningful long term savings for retirement would be possible if you spent your life earning minimum wage unless your employers pension contributions are generous indeed.
Welshbeef said:
Well min wage is £7.20/hr so let's say annual salary is £14,976 pays 10% into the company pension scheme and no student loans.
His monthly take home is £1,012.73 pcm.
Rent
Council tax
Electric and gas
Phone line
Tv licence
Mobile (PAYG)?
Clothing
Food
Shoes
Commuting travel costs.
Now that's tight really tight - to assume then this chap does nothing but the above for 40-50 years work. Never goes on a family day out never has a meal out never buys gifts of any kind never has to replace a sofa TV phone never has a car never goes on holiday ever cannot have any hobbies bar reading and free use from the library.
Then Bob has a further maybe 25-30 years of retirement on even less with frankly no real significant reduction in costs. Depressing. A life of mundane repetitive hard work day on day out year in year out. This is existing.
So you're saying if someone is crap with money and doesn't better themselves then they should be just given more things?His monthly take home is £1,012.73 pcm.
Rent
Council tax
Electric and gas
Phone line
Tv licence
Mobile (PAYG)?
Clothing
Food
Shoes
Commuting travel costs.
Now that's tight really tight - to assume then this chap does nothing but the above for 40-50 years work. Never goes on a family day out never has a meal out never buys gifts of any kind never has to replace a sofa TV phone never has a car never goes on holiday ever cannot have any hobbies bar reading and free use from the library.
Then Bob has a further maybe 25-30 years of retirement on even less with frankly no real significant reduction in costs. Depressing. A life of mundane repetitive hard work day on day out year in year out. This is existing.
Over £1k take home a month is enough to live a lifestyle that isn't in poverty.
When I bought my Noble, (in cash I might add) I also have a VX220, a shed, a 3 bed house, holidays abroad. What sort of mythical wages do you think I was earning?
Strip that back to a smaller house or flat, 1 car, holidays at the seaside rather than Florida (it's not a human right you know) and you can have a reasonable lifestyle on minimum wage.
FN2TypeR said:
Because it's fking peanuts?
Are you having a laugh? No meaningful long term savings for retirement would be possible if you spent your life earning minimum wage unless your employers pension contributions are generous indeed.
It's not much but don't spend it on sking peanuts?Are you having a laugh? No meaningful long term savings for retirement would be possible if you spent your life earning minimum wage unless your employers pension contributions are generous indeed.
t then??Zoobeef said:
So you're saying if someone is crap with money and doesn't better themselves then they should be just given more things?
Over £1k take home a month is enough to live a lifestyle that isn't in poverty.
When I bought my Noble, (in cash I might add) I also have a VX220, a shed, a 3 bed house, holidays abroad. What sort of mythical wages do you think I was earning?
Strip that back to a smaller house or flat, 1 car, holidays at the seaside rather than Florida (it's not a human right you know) and you can have a reasonable lifestyle on minimum wage.
Bob has an IQ way under 50 - cleaning and basic cleaning is at the cutting edge for him. He cannot drive as he hasn't the skill set to do so. Over £1k take home a month is enough to live a lifestyle that isn't in poverty.
When I bought my Noble, (in cash I might add) I also have a VX220, a shed, a 3 bed house, holidays abroad. What sort of mythical wages do you think I was earning?
Strip that back to a smaller house or flat, 1 car, holidays at the seaside rather than Florida (it's not a human right you know) and you can have a reasonable lifestyle on minimum wage.
I listed a lot of items which are costs you have to take - care to guess what they total?
Zoobeef said:
So you're saying if someone is crap with money and doesn't better themselves then they should be just given more things?
Over £1k take home a month is enough to live a lifestyle that isn't in poverty.
When I bought my Noble, (in cash I might add) I also have a VX220, a shed, a 3 bed house, holidays abroad. What sort of mythical wages do you think I was earning?
Strip that back to a smaller house or flat, 1 car, holidays at the seaside rather than Florida (it's not a human right you know) and you can have a reasonable lifestyle on minimum wage.
Do you have any idea how big a pension fund needs to be to give you a retirement income equal to the minimum wage?Over £1k take home a month is enough to live a lifestyle that isn't in poverty.
When I bought my Noble, (in cash I might add) I also have a VX220, a shed, a 3 bed house, holidays abroad. What sort of mythical wages do you think I was earning?
Strip that back to a smaller house or flat, 1 car, holidays at the seaside rather than Florida (it's not a human right you know) and you can have a reasonable lifestyle on minimum wage.
NoNeed said:
Do you have any idea how big a pension fund needs to be to give you a retirement income equal to the minimum wage?
Why if you earn minimum wage would you expect your retirement fund to be the same level. When I retire I don't expect to just continue receiving the wage I retire on.Zoobeef said:
Why if you earn minimum wage would you expect your retirement fund to be the same level. When I retire I don't expect to just continue receiving the wage I retire on.
Clever dodge.Ok then, how big does a pension fund need to be to give you an income big enough to live on without any outside help. You can choose the income.
NoNeed said:
lever dodge.
Ok then, how big does a pension fund need to be to give you an income big enough to live on without any outside help. You can choose the income.
That all depends on your pre retirement lifestyle and what you want from retirement?Ok then, how big does a pension fund need to be to give you an income big enough to live on without any outside help. You can choose the income.
If you want to life like most of the old people round here then not much. No mortgage, free bus pass and a bit of marshalling. I can't wait.
Zoobeef said:
NoNeed said:
lever dodge.
Ok then, how big does a pension fund need to be to give you an income big enough to live on without any outside help. You can choose the income.
That all depends on your pre retirement lifestyle and what you want from retirement?Ok then, how big does a pension fund need to be to give you an income big enough to live on without any outside help. You can choose the income.
If you want to life like most of the old people round here then not much. No mortgage, free bus pass and a bit of marshalling. I can't wait.
we are talking basic needs being met. The government thinks that those on low saleries would still require 80% of that amount.
https://www.nutmeg.com/nutmegonomics/how-much-do-i...
To give a 6k income (roughtly half minimum wage you need to save £100k for those on minimum wage would be about 20% of salary. That's the basic minimum wage, throw a family into the mix and kids go hungry if you save the required amount.
NoNeed said:
Nothing to do with want, only need.
we are talking basic needs being met. The government thinks that those on low saleries would still require 80% of that amount.
https://www.nutmeg.com/nutmegonomics/how-much-do-i...
To give a 6k income (roughtly half minimum wage you need to save £100k for those on minimum wage would be about 20% of salary. That's the basic minimum wage, through a family into the mix and kids go hungry if you save the required amount.
Wasn't to far off my my own finger in the air of £400 a month for 20 years.we are talking basic needs being met. The government thinks that those on low saleries would still require 80% of that amount.
https://www.nutmeg.com/nutmegonomics/how-much-do-i...
To give a 6k income (roughtly half minimum wage you need to save £100k for those on minimum wage would be about 20% of salary. That's the basic minimum wage, through a family into the mix and kids go hungry if you save the required amount.
The problem comes when if you gave people on minimum wage an extra 20% to put into a pension pot or to have as extra income 90%+ of them would just take it as extra income.
Zoobeef said:
That all depends on your pre retirement lifestyle and what you want from retirement?
If you want to life like most of the old people round here then not much. No mortgage, free bus pass and a bit of marshalling. I can't wait.
One key thing - you say no mortgage. I'd agree however they will be renting until they die. There is no way anyone earning £15k could buy a house period even going risky 6x basic salary you could only get a mortgage for £90k. Not many places I know where you can buy a house for £90k. Also he needs to save up a deposit of 10% or let's call it £10k to find a house for £100k. If you want to life like most of the old people round here then not much. No mortgage, free bus pass and a bit of marshalling. I can't wait.
I'd say maybe he can save £70pcm even so that will take him 12years to save the deposit up whilst paying rent and living possibly getting married beginning a family. Assuming house prices don't increase in he 12 year period and he doesn't have additional dependants which restrict his borrowing then he is good to go. He will now be in his early to 30's in a starter home which he will just cost the mortgage when he retires at 70years old.
I don't know how he will afford to replace the boiler carpets and in 30 years I'd wager the bathroom and kitchen will be worn out so need replacing. Likewise curtains. None are cheap but luckily it's a bedsit so nice and cosy - though having a knee trembler with the Mrs whisky you also have a family sleeping in the same bedsit might be a very good way to prevent the family growing.
Zoobeef said:
NoNeed said:
Nothing to do with want, only need.
we are talking basic needs being met. The government thinks that those on low saleries would still require 80% of that amount.
https://www.nutmeg.com/nutmegonomics/how-much-do-i...
To give a 6k income (roughtly half minimum wage you need to save £100k for those on minimum wage would be about 20% of salary. That's the basic minimum wage, through a family into the mix and kids go hungry if you save the required amount.
Wasn't to far off my my own finger in the air of £400 a month for 20 years.we are talking basic needs being met. The government thinks that those on low saleries would still require 80% of that amount.
https://www.nutmeg.com/nutmegonomics/how-much-do-i...
To give a 6k income (roughtly half minimum wage you need to save £100k for those on minimum wage would be about 20% of salary. That's the basic minimum wage, through a family into the mix and kids go hungry if you save the required amount.
The problem comes when if you gave people on minimum wage an extra 20% to put into a pension pot or to have as extra income 90%+ of them would just take it as extra income.
what is needed is a properly funded ring fenced scheme payed for through taxation, that ensures a minimum standard.
but then you have the issue about those that work and save being treated the same as those that do not.
not easy, not easy at all.
Welshbeef said:
One key thing - you say no mortgage. I'd agree however they will be renting until they die. There is no way anyone earning £15k could buy a house period even going risky 6x basic salary you could only get a mortgage for £90k. Not many places I know where you can buy a house for £90k. Also he needs to save up a deposit of 10% or let's call it £10k to find a house for £100k.
I'd say maybe he can save £70pcm even so that will take him 12years to save the deposit up whilst paying rent and living possibly getting married beginning a family. Assuming house prices don't increase in he 12 year period and he doesn't have additional dependants which restrict his borrowing then he is good to go. He will now be in his early to 30's in a starter home which he will just cost the mortgage when he retires at 70years old.
I don't know how he will afford to replace the boiler carpets and in 30 years I'd wager the bathroom and kitchen will be worn out so need replacing. Likewise curtains. None are cheap but luckily it's a bedsit so nice and cosy - though having a knee trembler with the Mrs whisky you also have a family sleeping in the same bedsit might be a very good way to prevent the family growing.
Haha! So much wrongness it's unreal.I'd say maybe he can save £70pcm even so that will take him 12years to save the deposit up whilst paying rent and living possibly getting married beginning a family. Assuming house prices don't increase in he 12 year period and he doesn't have additional dependants which restrict his borrowing then he is good to go. He will now be in his early to 30's in a starter home which he will just cost the mortgage when he retires at 70years old.
I don't know how he will afford to replace the boiler carpets and in 30 years I'd wager the bathroom and kitchen will be worn out so need replacing. Likewise curtains. None are cheap but luckily it's a bedsit so nice and cosy - though having a knee trembler with the Mrs whisky you also have a family sleeping in the same bedsit might be a very good way to prevent the family growing.
Met my Mrs 3 months ago, she has an Aygo that she's had 10 years. Good little runner. Bought her house 4 years ago, on her own. Very nice 2 bed terrace. She's just had a payrise for the new year and now earns £17k. If you care to gaze your eyes to the north you'll see that you don't need a basic of £1.2m to live.
I said no mortgage as any sensible person will be mortgage free by retirement age.
Zoobeef said:
FN2TypeR said:
Because it's fking peanuts?
Are you having a laugh? No meaningful long term savings for retirement would be possible if you spent your life earning minimum wage unless your employers pension contributions are generous indeed.
It's not much but don't spend it on sking peanuts?Are you having a laugh? No meaningful long term savings for retirement would be possible if you spent your life earning minimum wage unless your employers pension contributions are generous indeed.
t then??
FN2TypeR said:
If you don't have anything left after paying out for housing and food you can't - not everybody who lives on or under the breadline is sat staring at a 50" TV and smoking 40 a day. Do you take your entire view of the low paid from the pages of the Daily Mail out of interest?
No I just come from Doncaster so have a first hand view of the "poor".technodup said:
Welshbeef said:
My point is of the current workforce 15million jobs will be taken over by AI by the Year 2030 -
We have around 30m people in jobs. There is no way automation will half that in 13 years, and not create anything to replace them.Not a chance.
Zoobeef said:
FN2TypeR said:
If you don't have anything left after paying out for housing and food you can't - not everybody who lives on or under the breadline is sat staring at a 50" TV and smoking 40 a day. Do you take your entire view of the low paid from the pages of the Daily Mail out of interest?
No I just come from Doncaster so have a first hand view of the "poor".Average house price in Doncaster is £96K according to a quick google, apparently was lower in 2014 than in 2004! Having lived in Edinburgh, Birmingham, Newcastle, London, Watford and Kirkcaldy I can confidently say that what would be possible for a low-earner in one of the poorer areas (like, say, saving for a deposit) would be utterly impossible for even a mid-earner in a more expensive city. What I was paying for renting a scabby bedroom in London would have paid off my mortgage back home in six years!
My career took me to different parts of the UK and on balance I feel it was worth it. Financially, though I would have been better off today with my old unskilled job and mortgaged flat back in Fife. But God help you if you start off anywhere expensive. All these people with less than £100 of savings aren't completely feckless (some are, of course. I've lived with some and it does my head in), it's just that life in some areas is expensive, (further) education is expensive, renting is (mostly) expensive.
Welshbeef said:
Well 15m and 2030 if from the news link /press. There must be some reasoning behind it - is it too high and too soon?
Both I'd bet.Amazon are launching the first automated store in the US very soon. No staff. A one store trial, so not exactly going the whole hog. And they're arguably the most innovative business there is right now.
To think the Co-op, Sports Direct or Lincoln County Council are even on the same page seems slightly optimistic (or pessimistic) to me.
Oh, and if the news you're referring to is this by Oxford Uni and Deloitte https://www.rt.com/uk/364074-automation-robots-ai-... it's 1m jobs, not 15m and they make the point that automation so far has created more than it's displaced.
This idea that in a decade machines are going to run the country and the government will pay us not to work is utterly mental.
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