Unsustainable public sector pensions
Discussion
sidicks said:
mph1977 said:
i think you'll find most pension schemes have limitations of working for the same employer or class of employer and recieving pension ...
where people are re-hired they don;t recieve pension unless they are rehired at much fewer hours or a lower grade (i've known a few do that in the NHS mainly clinicians though retire as a Consultant or Nurse /AHP senior manager and then come back at reduced hours at a 'lower' grade ... )
Are you sure - can you point me to the relevant section in any of the public sector pensions scheme documentation?where people are re-hired they don;t recieve pension unless they are rehired at much fewer hours or a lower grade (i've known a few do that in the NHS mainly clinicians though retire as a Consultant or Nurse /AHP senior manager and then come back at reduced hours at a 'lower' grade ... )
The article states:
Spokesmen for Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire, Leicestershire and London fire services all said that in line with national regulations, they had capped the salary and pension payments of rehired staff, so the combined income did not exceed their gross salary before stepping down.
So these people clearly accrue further pensions, once rehired.
Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
mph1977 said:
No they don't accrue any more pension
Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
Correct I do believe.Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
alfie2244 said:
mph1977 said:
No they don't accrue any more pension
Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
Correct I do believe.Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
mph1977 said:
alfie2244 said:
mph1977 said:
No they don't accrue any more pension
Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
Correct I do believe.Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
So if someone had their max service service in and would be recieving 50% of final salary as pension - if they returned at thesame grade at more than half FTE hours they would lose pension in addition to not accruing any more pension rights with the scheme
mph1977 said:
No they don't accrue any more pension
Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
Isn't this sometimes a problem in the NHS? They want to rehire some staff but it's not worth them coming back.Once re-hired salary recieved and pension recieved cannot exceed previous salary (i.e. used for calculating the final salary for the pension scheme)
The examples in the article of very senior staff being rehired are typical of the way very top level public servants seem to do incredibly well. Of course that's a million miles from how the vast majority of public servants fare.
My missus was made redundant from the Civil Service and converted that into early retirement. She was blocked from going back when a former boss in another Department wanted to hire her.
alfie2244 said:
Correct from direct personal experience - well OH anyway.
Well. I know someone that re-joined the civil service and did accrue further pension.I can certainly understanding that someone who had retired on the maximum pension available under scheme rules could not accrue further pension.
edited to add
Just seen this on the NHS pensions website:
If you opt out of the 2008 section of the Scheme or if you have taken benefits from the Scheme you may rejoin the Scheme as long as you meet the eligibility criteria and do not have more than 45 years membership. Benefits in respect of your re-employment will be calculated using the reckonable pay and membership applicable to the re-employment period only. The benefits will be paid in addition to the pension payable in respect of your earlier membership.
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 29th March 13:22
Sheepshanks said:
Isn't this sometimes a problem in the NHS? They want to rehire some staff but it's not worth them coming back.
The examples in the article of very senior staff being rehired are typical of the way very top level public servants seem to do incredibly well. Of course that's a million miles from how the vast majority of public servants fare.
My missus was made redundant from the Civil Service and converted that into early retirement. She was blocked from going back when a former boss Iin another Department wanted to hire her.
My OH is currently doing some interim work while they recruit a permanent employee (not many suitable applicants are applying but that's another story) .....they have begged, bribed, and tried just about everything they can to get her to take the position full time but why would anyone work full time and be no better off than working part time?The examples in the article of very senior staff being rehired are typical of the way very top level public servants seem to do incredibly well. Of course that's a million miles from how the vast majority of public servants fare.
My missus was made redundant from the Civil Service and converted that into early retirement. She was blocked from going back when a former boss Iin another Department wanted to hire her.
One of my Bro's was employed as a printer, worked for a small company of about thirty or so employee's He paid into the company pension scheme for decades, along with his co- workers. Retirement looming he was looking forward to his pension, then the company he worked for went bust. They took all of the pension fund with them and then promptly started s new company doing the same work of course. Directors of new company were wives of the previous company directors IIRC. All this was around 15 years back or so. I expect they came up with this little wheeze having seen how Maxwell was so masterful at his thievery.
Moral of this tale, trust nobody with your cash except yourself and your decisions.
Moral of this tale, trust nobody with your cash except yourself and your decisions.
sidicks said:
alfie2244 said:
Correct from direct personal experience - well OH anyway.
Well. I know someone that re-joined the civil service and did accrue further pension.I can certainly understanding that someone who had retired on the maximum pension available under scheme rules could not accrue further pension.
edited to add
Just seen this on the NHS pensions website:
If you opt out of the 2008 section of the Scheme or if you have taken benefits from the Scheme you may rejoin the Scheme as long as you meet the eligibility criteria and do not have more than 45 years membership. Benefits in respect of your re-employment will be calculated using the reckonable pay and membership applicable to the re-employment period only. The benefits will be paid in addition to the pension payable in respect of your earlier membership.
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 29th March 13:22
Nonetheless I am certain (well 99% now) about the pension / earnings combined exceeding final salary.
alfie2244 said:
In which case I am wrong...sorry about that. However I doubt she would want to start paying back into a pension again.
Nonetheless I am certain (well 99% now) about the pension / earnings combined exceeding final salary.
It could be that the 'eligibility requirements' referred to in my previous post are so severe that no one can comply!Nonetheless I am certain (well 99% now) about the pension / earnings combined exceeding final salary.
sidicks said:
alfie2244 said:
She is under 65 still by some way
Just to challenge your previous comment - given how attractive the terms of public sector pensions are, given the chance why would your wife not want to re-start paying into the scheme?sidicks said:
alfie2244 said:
Happy with pensions / savings / incomes we already have.
Fair enough!Most people would be happy for a bit more pension if for every £1 they paid in, someone else paid in £3 on their behalf!
Not being a direct employee she can now pick and choose what she does, when she does it and for how long (and what crap she puts up with). The pressure she was under when employed direct, put simply, may have meant she may not have been around long enough to draw her pension.
And I need the money for our boat as well
alfie2244 said:
In non financial terms the benefits, for us at least, do not outweigh the cost.
Not being a direct employee she can now pick and choose what she does, when she does it and for how long (and what crap she puts up with). The pressure she was under when employed direct, put simply, may have meant she may not have been around long enough to draw her pension.
And I need the money for our boat as well
For your sake, I'm glad she has the same priorities as you!Not being a direct employee she can now pick and choose what she does, when she does it and for how long (and what crap she puts up with). The pressure she was under when employed direct, put simply, may have meant she may not have been around long enough to draw her pension.
And I need the money for our boat as well
Why is it that so many people are unable to comprehend the changes in life expectancy?
My Grandfather started working at the age of 15 back in around 1926. By the time he retired 45 years later, he was the Chief Engineer for his County Council.
At the time of his retirement, average life expectancy in the country would've seen him living off his pension for just under 9 years.
In fact, he died at the age of 97, and when he died, his index-linked public sector pension was paying him just over £33k per annum.
Back then, my grandfather was a complete statistical outlier. Today, he's anything but! Pension schemes which were designed to pay out for between 5 to 10 years in retirement are now being asked to pay out for 20+ years in retirement.
The big difference between the public and the private sector is that the private sector has been forced to accept this, and the public hasn't.
My Grandfather started working at the age of 15 back in around 1926. By the time he retired 45 years later, he was the Chief Engineer for his County Council.
At the time of his retirement, average life expectancy in the country would've seen him living off his pension for just under 9 years.
In fact, he died at the age of 97, and when he died, his index-linked public sector pension was paying him just over £33k per annum.
Back then, my grandfather was a complete statistical outlier. Today, he's anything but! Pension schemes which were designed to pay out for between 5 to 10 years in retirement are now being asked to pay out for 20+ years in retirement.
The big difference between the public and the private sector is that the private sector has been forced to accept this, and the public hasn't.
sidicks said:
alfie2244 said:
In non financial terms the benefits, for us at least, do not outweigh the cost.
Not being a direct employee she can now pick and choose what she does, when she does it and for how long (and what crap she puts up with). The pressure she was under when employed direct, put simply, may have meant she may not have been around long enough to draw her pension.
And I need the money for our boat as well
For your sake, I'm glad she has the same priorities as you!Not being a direct employee she can now pick and choose what she does, when she does it and for how long (and what crap she puts up with). The pressure she was under when employed direct, put simply, may have meant she may not have been around long enough to draw her pension.
And I need the money for our boat as well
sidicks said:
alfie2244 said:
One in a million she is...........talked me into buying it.........nags me to get another track car as well
Does she have a Sister?This must have been asked a thousand times, but I have yet to read it in here :
Why is the Government not reining in the public sector pension provision, at least to new employee's?
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