Police in search for missing 5 year old
Discussion
Aretnap said:
otolith said:
Indeterminate life sentence if he's found guilty, surely?
All life sentences are indeterminate unless they have a whole life tariff aren't they?The (statutory) sentencing guidelines for murder prescribe a starting point of a whole life tariff for "murder of child involving abduction, sexual or sadistic motivation", so if he's convicted it's very unlikely that he'll ever be released.
M@verick said:
that BBC report is truly grim reading. I was in the camp that thought he was probably guilty, and the body had probably ended up in the river. I really, really wasnt expecting that.
Hang him ?. I think they should just set him "free" back in that village, and walk away.
R.
I was in a camp that thought there was more to this horror story than really met the eye. I never once contemplated it would be anything near what I have read today.Hang him ?. I think they should just set him "free" back in that village, and walk away.
R.
Before today, I have not totally been comfortable with the death penalty - I did believe there is something in trying to discover what makes someone do horrific crimes to go some way to prevent another occurrence. However reading this today does make me think otherwise. Maybe it is because my daughter is the same age as April - it definitely affects my viewpoint.
Getragdogleg said:
Assuming the Police have the right person in custody:
Perhaps it was not his intention to sexually intefere with or even kill the little girl, perhaps he has just taken her to try to extract a ransom but he was caught too quickly, now he wont say where she is and is saying "no comment", perhaps the Police suspect this and know his rough movements and are trying to find the place he has hidden her.
I know that's a lot of ifs and buts and perhaps but "normal" kidnappings do happen, not every child is taken by a nonce or killer, some people just want money.
I posted this back when this was still new news. I think I have an overly sunny outlook on life and try to give the benefit of the doubt when I don't want to consider horrible things.Perhaps it was not his intention to sexually intefere with or even kill the little girl, perhaps he has just taken her to try to extract a ransom but he was caught too quickly, now he wont say where she is and is saying "no comment", perhaps the Police suspect this and know his rough movements and are trying to find the place he has hidden her.
I know that's a lot of ifs and buts and perhaps but "normal" kidnappings do happen, not every child is taken by a nonce or killer, some people just want money.
This world is disappointing me and turning me into a suspicious old b
d.It also means at the end of the day you cannot trust anyone - clearly its highly unlikely but evil like this does exist in our society they hide it so well and then out of the blue is horror crime is committed.
I thought he probably snatched her took her out to an area he was familiar with or had planned his fantasy then done some sexual acts which somehow went wrong and she died. He panicked and the body was thrown into the rampant river. Or that on the way to his area to commit the sexual offence she ran and he tried to catch her but knocked her into the river then she had no chance and drowned body washed out to sea.
I never even considered what seems to have been the real scenario that is on a level of depravity which I just wouldn't even consider or think is humanly possible.
Got to say the killers family his kids wife other family are now in a horrible situation - likely totally unknowing of his other side but they will be hated and will have no option but to move far away and likely deed poll.
Imagine the killers parents - what must they be thinking they brought a child into the world lived him brought him up in a way they thought normal then he goes out and does this.
Have given my little girl lots of cuddles tonight
I thought he probably snatched her took her out to an area he was familiar with or had planned his fantasy then done some sexual acts which somehow went wrong and she died. He panicked and the body was thrown into the rampant river. Or that on the way to his area to commit the sexual offence she ran and he tried to catch her but knocked her into the river then she had no chance and drowned body washed out to sea.
I never even considered what seems to have been the real scenario that is on a level of depravity which I just wouldn't even consider or think is humanly possible.
Got to say the killers family his kids wife other family are now in a horrible situation - likely totally unknowing of his other side but they will be hated and will have no option but to move far away and likely deed poll.
Imagine the killers parents - what must they be thinking they brought a child into the world lived him brought him up in a way they thought normal then he goes out and does this.
Have given my little girl lots of cuddles tonight
Having been the poster who revived this topic earlier, I must admit that I did not read the various reports properly, just skimmed over.
Reading again, from what is reported by the BBC it sounds like there is substantial evidence (although obviously everyone is innocent until found guilty). From what has been reported:
Blood - DNA matched in the house
Bone fragments in a fireplace identified as being from a skull of that age.
Child porn on a PC - doesn't mean there was an sexual assault but I think we can all draw own own judgement.
Pictures of young local girls from social media sites, including the victim's sisters
Confirmed searches on his PC for "5 year old naked" etc and an interest in historic child murders.
Most chilling to me; suspect was a slaughterman previously so knew his way around a knife, several of which were found partially burnt around his fireplace.
If guilty, which the evidence is pointing to at the moment, I don't know what to think.
I do not agree with the death penalty as I don't think a government should be able to take someone's life at their discretion.
On the other hand, this crime is so abhorrent that maybe the only suitable penalty is death.
Or would that be an easy way out? Should this individual be guilty then perhaps locking him up for 23 hours a day for the next 50 years is a more suitable punishment than giving him an injection and getting rid of him?
If he is guilty, he needs to be punished in appropriate way. Without being reactionary, I wish I could formulate what that punishment should be.
Reading again, from what is reported by the BBC it sounds like there is substantial evidence (although obviously everyone is innocent until found guilty). From what has been reported:
Blood - DNA matched in the house
Bone fragments in a fireplace identified as being from a skull of that age.
Child porn on a PC - doesn't mean there was an sexual assault but I think we can all draw own own judgement.
Pictures of young local girls from social media sites, including the victim's sisters
Confirmed searches on his PC for "5 year old naked" etc and an interest in historic child murders.
Most chilling to me; suspect was a slaughterman previously so knew his way around a knife, several of which were found partially burnt around his fireplace.
If guilty, which the evidence is pointing to at the moment, I don't know what to think.
I do not agree with the death penalty as I don't think a government should be able to take someone's life at their discretion.
On the other hand, this crime is so abhorrent that maybe the only suitable penalty is death.
Or would that be an easy way out? Should this individual be guilty then perhaps locking him up for 23 hours a day for the next 50 years is a more suitable punishment than giving him an injection and getting rid of him?
If he is guilty, he needs to be punished in appropriate way. Without being reactionary, I wish I could formulate what that punishment should be.
Edited by OzzyR1 on Tuesday 30th April 21:59
It's an unthinkable end to the poor girl's life... BUT if the police knew what has basically been revealed in court, why was there such a huge (biggest ever) police search to find the body which sounds like they knew would never be found?
If he's guilty and found guilty, he's gonna need round the clock protection inside.
If he's guilty and found guilty, he's gonna need round the clock protection inside.
TRB said:
It's an unthinkable end to the poor girl's life... BUT if the police knew what has basically been revealed in court, why was there such a huge (biggest ever) police search to find the body which sounds like they knew would never be found?
I am not a policeman and have no knowledge of the crime that has been committed but I assume that if a young girl was missing they would try and find her at any cost.If the news reports are proven to be true, and if a suspect was detained, they have to search a property and any DNA samples obtained would take at least 24 hours to be verified before the search was called off.
Doesn't seem an unreasonable timeline in the circumstances.
OzzyR1 said:
I am not a policeman and have no knowledge of the crime that has been committed but I assume that if a young girl was missing they would try and find her at any cost.
If the news reports are proven to be true, then if a suspect was detained, they have to search a property and any DNA samples obtained would take at least 24 hours to be verified before the search was called off.
Doesn't seem an unreasonable timeline in the circumstances.
They quit searching only recently, I'm guessing they knew there were bones, dna, burnt knives and other ghastlies pretty quick. Suppose they were only ever looking for bits of her rather than the body.If the news reports are proven to be true, then if a suspect was detained, they have to search a property and any DNA samples obtained would take at least 24 hours to be verified before the search was called off.
Doesn't seem an unreasonable timeline in the circumstances.
Grim
TRB said:
They quit searching only recently, I'm guessing they knew there were bones, dna, burnt knives and other ghastlies pretty quick. Suppose they were only ever looking for bits of her rather than the body.
Grim
Do you have a source for that claim you could link? Grim
Not heard it myself.
OzzyR1 said:
Not really.
The DM is universally acclaimed for publishing sensationalist nonsense. I admit that they may be correct in this situation given the burden of evidence but that is no reason to treat what that appalling rag sprouts as gospel.
It's all over the news Ozzy, not the thread to be bickering about the DM. My point was already splitting hairs, just curious why such resource was spent. It sounds like a poor girl has met an unimaginable end. RIP. The DM is universally acclaimed for publishing sensationalist nonsense. I admit that they may be correct in this situation given the burden of evidence but that is no reason to treat what that appalling rag sprouts as gospel.
TRB said:
It's all over the news Ozzy, not the thread to be bickering about the DM. My point was already splitting hairs, just curious why such resource was spent. It sounds like a poor girl has met an unimaginable end. RIP.
Until the police could prove fragments and bones were of the missing child then they would naturally keep looking. The bones blood etc could've been from another person.I wonder what will be uncovered about this guys past thatll be released after sentencing if guilty of course.
Terribly sad.
M@verick said:
that BBC report is truly grim reading. I was in the camp that thought he was probably guilty, and the body had probably ended up in the river. I really, really wasnt expecting that.
Hang him ?. I think they should just set him "free" back in that village, and walk away.
R.
It would be a terrible cruel thing, to make killers of her family who have already been through so much. I wouldn't do that to them even if I wanted to do it to Bridger.Hang him ?. I think they should just set him "free" back in that village, and walk away.
R.
One truly terrible thing the Internet has done is made Peadophilia so much easier for those who want to be involved with auch things.
You have to wonder if the Internet didn't exist would he and other criminals who carried out such crimes still have done it?
I'm guessing not with this he probably had a fascination with primary school young primary school kids.
I do wonder how on earth he got into this? I mean no rational person would ever have such thoughts about children (talking about the sexual element) did he always have these desires or just one day something happened which changed him? And then the killing was that purely to try to hide evidence and possibly keep him innocent, or was that part always planned out.
What if the bones have more than one DNA signature
If I were the police is be checking were he was during Madalines abduction.
You have to wonder if the Internet didn't exist would he and other criminals who carried out such crimes still have done it?
I'm guessing not with this
he probably had a fascination with primary school young primary school kids. I do wonder how on earth he got into this? I mean no rational person would ever have such thoughts about children (talking about the sexual element) did he always have these desires or just one day something happened which changed him? And then the killing was that purely to try to hide evidence and possibly keep him innocent, or was that part always planned out.
What if the bones have more than one DNA signature
If I were the police is be checking were he was during Madalines abduction.
Lack of internet didn't prove any hindrance to Albert Fish.
In centuries past, if anything, it was probably easier to be a paedo or other child-murdering nutter, because poor children were essentially expendable and anonymous. If the typhoid, cholera or diphtheria didn't get them, that is.
Ugh. Dark things to be thinking about on a Wednesday morning.
In centuries past, if anything, it was probably easier to be a paedo or other child-murdering nutter, because poor children were essentially expendable and anonymous. If the typhoid, cholera or diphtheria didn't get them, that is.
Ugh. Dark things to be thinking about on a Wednesday morning.
greygoose said:
Rocksteadyeddie said:
I'm also curious as to what his defence will be, although accepting we have only heard one side of the story.
"Dunno Guv", "Can't remember" and "I was drunk" don't sound like the basis of a robust and structured defence.
It does seem a hopeless defence case."Dunno Guv", "Can't remember" and "I was drunk" don't sound like the basis of a robust and structured defence.
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