UKIP - The Future - Volume 4
Discussion
Continued from http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
don4l said:
Zod said:
I'll repeat myself yet again: UKIP claims to be different. It is not and it is therefore fair game to highlight the failings of its candidates, jsut as happens with the other parties.
Are you saying that fraud, hypocrisy and kiddie fiddling are acceptable in the other parties?Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
Zod said:
ow exactly would you draw that conclusion from what I have written?
Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
The fact the party was whipped to oppose protecting CSA whistleblowers from the Official Secrets Act doesn't look great does it...Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
IBTL
On balance, currently I'm for out. I'm happy to see and try to accept a renegotiation, however whilst trying hard not to prejudge, but being realistic probably am doing so, I fear that Cameron, or indeed anyone, will not achieve serious reform sufficient for my support to stay in. Furthermore I fear he is trying the same tactics as in 1975, one of relying on the public's propensity to vote for whatever is recommended by the Govt of the day, ie the people they are used to obeying. His tactics will be to divert any opposition by saying "That's under negotiation." making it hard for any out campaign to get traction, and, as has been suggested by Carswell et al, just obtain enough reforms to justfy saying " well we haven't got everything we wanted but on the balance etc etc."
Cynical. Yes, but probably not far off the mark. We shall see.
As for those on the previous thread accusing Zod of being a troll. Do stop it. An argumentative adversarial tit. Yes. Then so am I.
However there are clearly at times various plants / shills on the thread, that much seems obvious, Probably not paid though as just too amateur frankly.
Zod said:
That is the whole point: we negotiate. THe result of the negotiation is either that we get a package of sensible reforms and Cameron, UKIP's policy chief, NicD, FiF and I (amongst others) will all be happy to vote to stay in the EU or the EU give us nothing material, in which case we will all head for the exit.
That's fair enough, the current problem is where we sit on the spectrum.On balance, currently I'm for out. I'm happy to see and try to accept a renegotiation, however whilst trying hard not to prejudge, but being realistic probably am doing so, I fear that Cameron, or indeed anyone, will not achieve serious reform sufficient for my support to stay in. Furthermore I fear he is trying the same tactics as in 1975, one of relying on the public's propensity to vote for whatever is recommended by the Govt of the day, ie the people they are used to obeying. His tactics will be to divert any opposition by saying "That's under negotiation." making it hard for any out campaign to get traction, and, as has been suggested by Carswell et al, just obtain enough reforms to justfy saying " well we haven't got everything we wanted but on the balance etc etc."
Cynical. Yes, but probably not far off the mark. We shall see.
As for those on the previous thread accusing Zod of being a troll. Do stop it. An argumentative adversarial tit. Yes. Then so am I.
However there are clearly at times various plants / shills on the thread, that much seems obvious, Probably not paid though as just too amateur frankly.
I thought he was promising a referendum if he couldn't get the reforms he wants?
If that's the case I imagine he'll get some very minor token reforms and then state a referendum isn't required.
I just don't trust him, or most of the front benchers for either main stream party I'm afraid. Rather a sad place to be IMHO.
If that's the case I imagine he'll get some very minor token reforms and then state a referendum isn't required.
I just don't trust him, or most of the front benchers for either main stream party I'm afraid. Rather a sad place to be IMHO.
Art0ir said:
Zod said:
ow exactly would you draw that conclusion from what I have written?
Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
The fact the party was whipped to oppose protecting CSA whistleblowers from the Official Secrets Act doesn't look great does it...Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
Zod said:
ow exactly would you draw that conclusion from what I have written?
Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
you never did answer this http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5530/how-mps-vot... . why did your beloved tories vote against the motion to exempt people from prosecution under the official secrets act in the specific case of providing evidence of child abuse after theresa may specifically said they would be ? this would have provided a legally binding agreement ,it now looks to me like the tories are absolutely stting themselves in case people do come forward with specific information prior to the election.Does any of you, by the way, have any evidence of any complicity by the current Tory ministerial team in covering up child abuse?
AshVX220 said:
I thought he was promising a referendum if he couldn't get the reforms he wants?
If that's the case I imagine he'll get some very minor token reforms and then state a referendum isn't required.
I just don't trust him, or most of the front benchers for either main stream party I'm afraid. Rather a sad place to be IMHO.
Surely not, last time we handed back much of our rebate for the CAP reforms they were carried out to the letter and without delay...... If that's the case I imagine he'll get some very minor token reforms and then state a referendum isn't required.
I just don't trust him, or most of the front benchers for either main stream party I'm afraid. Rather a sad place to be IMHO.
Zod said:
It's a difficult subject. Governments always protect the OSA. The real question is how and why the OSA was invoked to protect the likes of Cyril Smith.
bks, may already said they would be, now they have bottled making that a legal statement. no matter,it will come out in the long run. meanwhile, you keep voting for those that continue to protect establishment paedophiles and possibly child murderers ,i will vote for the swivel eyed loons or the raving loonies.as an aside, a question for you and zyggy . given the option of voting for someone associated with a bigot or a paedophile facilitator , which would you chose ?
wc98 said:
bks, may already said they would be, now they have bottled making that a legal statement. no matter,it will come out in the long run. meanwhile, you keep voting for those that continue to protect establishment paedophiles and possibly child murderers ,i will vote for the swivel eyed loons or the raving loonies.
as an aside, a question for you and zyggy . given the option of voting for someone associated with a bigot or a paedophile facilitator , which would you chose ?
Exactly. I really wish the lid were properly lifted on Westminster paedophilia prior to the GE...would change things considerably I've no doubt. UKIP should be bellowing about this from the rooftops as well as the systematic covering up of mass child rape in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford etc etc. The main three parties are ALL complicit and so are their voters who continue to support them regardless.as an aside, a question for you and zyggy . given the option of voting for someone associated with a bigot or a paedophile facilitator , which would you chose ?
AshVX220 said:
I thought he was promising a referendum if he couldn't get the reforms he wants?
If that's the case I imagine he'll get some very minor token reforms and then state a referendum isn't required.
I just don't trust him, or most of the front benchers for either main stream party I'm afraid. Rather a sad place to be IMHO.
Ash .. how could you. As if a Politician could be so devious and delay things yet again so the problem would self heal and go away. FAT CHANCE on all counts! If that's the case I imagine he'll get some very minor token reforms and then state a referendum isn't required.
I just don't trust him, or most of the front benchers for either main stream party I'm afraid. Rather a sad place to be IMHO.
Sad place to be you say. Not sad at all. True and realistic appraisal of the current scenario much like so many past ones. Nothing new here.
Edited by MGJohn on Tuesday 24th March 12:39
Guam said:
Axionknight said:
An excellent attitude with which to make your return!
Quite so, lets see how long he lasts in this one, I guess his behavior didn't figure into the equation at all And for the record I wasn't involved
kinky said:
General rule of thumb ......
Banned from thread vol 1.
If user ends up being banned from vol 2, then they get a permanent forum ban.
If they don't learn their lesson the 1st time - then there's no hope.
So think on.Banned from thread vol 1.
If user ends up being banned from vol 2, then they get a permanent forum ban.
If they don't learn their lesson the 1st time - then there's no hope.
Digga said:
Greg66 said:
At last. A new volume. Perhaps the thinned skinned Kipper who got me banned from the last volume can HTFU this time around. Perhaps.
Or you could just pick on thicker(skinned) kippers instead. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff