Cuts when hasn't there been cuts
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Lol Scottish ref...
If the Scots left then we would be a Tory country
To get us out of the doldrums what we need is the solution to clean coal power generation once that is solved (pretty sure it already is) reopen all the coal mines in South Wales and northern England - which turn out to be the areas of high unemployment. We instantly have our self sufficiency of energy for centuries we solve unemployment in deprived areas we can lower energy costs for those in the UK, in addition benefits will be lowered through more employment and overall higher tax revenues.
A simple and quick solution - we can then begin the process of building nuclear powe stations which will take a number of decades to build (again construction employment).
Finally only allow British companies which will do the work in the UK for all Govt spending (military, navy etc )
Not sure if serious....If the Scots left then we would be a Tory country
To get us out of the doldrums what we need is the solution to clean coal power generation once that is solved (pretty sure it already is) reopen all the coal mines in South Wales and northern England - which turn out to be the areas of high unemployment. We instantly have our self sufficiency of energy for centuries we solve unemployment in deprived areas we can lower energy costs for those in the UK, in addition benefits will be lowered through more employment and overall higher tax revenues.
A simple and quick solution - we can then begin the process of building nuclear powe stations which will take a number of decades to build (again construction employment).
Finally only allow British companies which will do the work in the UK for all Govt spending (military, navy etc )
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So the Conservatives knew all along there would be a disaster but played along so that they could take power at the worst possible moment? So they have put themselves in a position where the decisions they are making will alienate them for a generation? Gordon Brown simply lost his chair when the music stopped. Yes they were on a spending binge but if you take a look around at your local area I dont know about you but where I live we have new schools/hospitals, better road infrastructure, a direct link to the Eurotunnel etc this is in an area that was on its arse in 1997. The medium term plan for both Labour and the Conservatives at the time of the crash was a controlled reduction in spending and reduction of debt. We would have the tax receipts to pay it down without breaking a sweat and we had the interest rates to prove it. If the credit crunch hadn't come Gordon Brown right now would be worshiped as a living god. Remember for about 6 months after Tony went what a breath of fresh air everyone thought it was!
If the Conservatives had won the 2005 election we would have been entering the credit crunch on a much shakier footing. Yes we would probably have had a lower national debt but no doubt because of that interest rates would have been through the roof and all the plebs out of work. Just how they like it. Ironically the £ would also be so strong that we wouldnt be able to sell anything either.
The very fact that the Conservatives didnt win a record breaking landslide in the last election speaks volumes about how people really in their heart of hearts dont completely blame Labour for all the ills of the world. Taken as a whole they were unlucky, could have made some decisions better sure but I think we are still now benefiting from some of the decisions GB made while still in office. At least he was able to make decisions which is one up on David Cameron who appears not have done anything as yet!
fridaypassion said:
Of course the Tories have a habit of leaving graphs looking in their favor just prior to been kicked out. England in 1995/1996 was such a land of opportunity of course. Thats if you survived the gangf
k of the early 90s and the total mess they made of handling the economy. Graphs dont show what a miserable sthole they have left behind.
I only quote this to laugh at you for saying it.k of the early 90s and the total mess they made of handling the economy. Graphs dont show what a miserable sthole they have left behind. fridaypassion said:
The Conservatives backed Gordon Browns public spending plans £ for £ right to the end. Nobody disagreed with Brown that we had found genuinely sustainable prosperity in this country. If the credit crunch hadn't come the Tory party would probably have been disbanded by now. No need for it.
The Conservatives did not back Brown's public spending plans. They said, in order to avoid Labour attacks that they would cut spending on "essentials", that they would match Labour's spending plans when coming to office. That was silly, but nothing like as silly as Brown's claim (that you seem still to believe) that we had found genuinely sustainable prosperity.(actually, the 92-97 Tory government did come close to finding it and, if Brown had not spend more than the country earned every year after 2001, we would be much better off now.
Zod said:
The Conservatives did not back Brown's public spending plans. They said, in order to avoid Labour attacks that they would cut spending on "essentials", that they would match Labour's spending plans when coming to office.
As far as I am aware the Conservatives only agreed to protect spending on Health (i.e. that it would increase in line with inflation). This promise was only made after Labour started to erode the Tory poll lead by claiming that they would slash Health spending.They were quite open about the need to make cuts to public spending.
As for fridaypassion's claim that the Tories backed public spending plans - all parlimentary debates are recorded on Hansard and can be searched online. If anyone can find a response by the Leader of the Oppostion (Hague, Duncan-Smith, Howard or Cameron) to any of Brown's budgets where they whole-heartedly agreed with what he was putting to the House then feel free to post it here.
When they have done that please show us when the Tories whipped their MPs to vote with the government on Finance Bills to formally endorse Brown's spending plans.
fridaypassion said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So the Conservatives knew all along there would be a disaster but played along so that they could take power at the worst possible moment? So they have put themselves in a position where the decisions they are making will alienate them for a generation? Gordon Brown simply lost his chair when the music stopped. Yes they were on a spending binge but if you take a look around at your local area I dont know about you but where I live we have new schools/hospitals, better road infrastructure, a direct link to the Eurotunnel etc this is in an area that was on its arse in 1997. The medium term plan for both Labour and the Conservatives at the time of the crash was a controlled reduction in spending and reduction of debt. We would have the tax receipts to pay it down without breaking a sweat and we had the interest rates to prove it. If the credit crunch hadn't come Gordon Brown right now would be worshiped as a living god. Remember for about 6 months after Tony went what a breath of fresh air everyone thought it was!
If the Conservatives had won the 2005 election we would have been entering the credit crunch on a much shakier footing. Yes we would probably have had a lower national debt but no doubt because of that interest rates would have been through the roof and all the plebs out of work. Just how they like it. Ironically the £ would also be so strong that we wouldnt be able to sell anything either.
The very fact that the Conservatives didnt win a record breaking landslide in the last election speaks volumes about how people really in their heart of hearts dont completely blame Labour for all the ills of the world. Taken as a whole they were unlucky, could have made some decisions better sure but I think we are still now benefiting from some of the decisions GB made while still in office. At least he was able to make decisions which is one up on David Cameron who appears not have done anything as yet!
As far as I am concerned if Brown fell over a fiscal cliff tomorrow and was never heard of again, it would be a blessing. The man did nothing for the Country other than to bankrupt us.
fridaypassion said:
The very fact that the Conservatives didnt win a record breaking landslide in the last election speaks volumes about how people really in their heart of hearts dont completely blame Labour for all the ills of the world. Taken as a whole they were unlucky, could have made some decisions better sure but I think we are still now benefiting from some of the decisions GB made while still in office. At least he was able to make decisions which is one up on David Cameron who appears not have done anything as yet!
What it actually shows is a combination of how badly skewed the electoral boundaries are in this country, and how deep the North/South divide is.
Zod said:
The Conservatives did not back Brown's public spending plans. They said, in order to avoid Labour attacks that they would cut spending on "essentials", that they would match Labour's spending plans when coming to office. That was silly, but nothing like as silly as Brown's claim (that you seem still to believe) that we had found genuinely sustainable prosperity.
(actually, the 92-97 Tory government did come close to finding it and, if Brown had not spend more than the country earned every year after 2001, we would be much better off now.
A very cursory google search(actually, the 92-97 Tory government did come close to finding it and, if Brown had not spend more than the country earned every year after 2001, we would be much better off now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm
Quotes from Mr "looking glass" Osbourne in 2007
"The result of adopting these spending totals is that under a Conservative government there will be real increases in spending on public services, year after year"
"Any reduction we offer in one tax will have to be matched by a tax rise elsewhere"
No indication of any kind of spending cuts whatsoever.
And again:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562023/Tor...
Mr Osbourne
"Total government spending will rise by 2 per cent a year in real terms, from £616 billion next year to £674 billion in the year 2010/11"
So what we are saying is that one of the best things about the Conservatives is that when they say they aren't going to do something unpleasant its a nudge nudge wink wink arrangement because of course they are going to do it!
Interesting little sideline here an article thats popped up from 2008. George Osbourne in an entrenched position pretty much the opposite to what he's in now having to get Cameron to rein him in:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservat...
The history will ultimately be written by the victors but I think we are a few years yet away from knowing who will get credit/blame for the different parts of whats gone wrong and is going wrong with the economy. One thing is completely certain is that the current administration and the plan they have is doing nothing currently to move us forward. They seem unable to make any decisions at all.
If you remember back to the time of the crash we had things like car scrappage set up within weeks. Real ballsy quick decision making that was adopted by other countries and pretty much saved the industry which was in real turmoil. You can debate the rights and wrongs of that but hey whats one of the only growth industries we have her in the UK now? Car making. The LibCons would never have been able to come up with anything so decisive.
While councillors and officers protest about cuts, Council reserves have increased from £14.2bn in 2011 to £16.4bn in 2012. Before whining so loudly these over-sold under-performing minions ought to spend more of their bank balance not grow it, after all it's made up of central and local taxes currently doing nothing for the people who paid the tax.
turbobloke said:
While councillors and officers protest about cuts, Council reserves have increased from £14.2bn in 2011 to £16.4bn in 2012. Before whining so loudly these over-sold under-performing minions ought to spend more of their bank balance not grow it, after all it's made up of central and local taxes currently doing nothing for the people who paid the tax.
I assume these are different to reserves which they (hopefully should) put aside for future pension liabilities?Kermit power said:
turbobloke said:
While councillors and officers protest about cuts, Council reserves have increased from £14.2bn in 2011 to £16.4bn in 2012. Before whining so loudly these over-sold under-performing minions ought to spend more of their bank balance not grow it, after all it's made up of central and local taxes currently doing nothing for the people who paid the tax.
I assume these are different to reserves which they (hopefully should) put aside for future pension liabilities?http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2012/12/town-h...
Pickles: "Whilst local authorities should maintain a healthy cushion, it's time for them to tap into their substantial reserves to ensure they protect frontline services" which I agree with.
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