Gordon Brown joins the gravy train

[AndrewW-G]

Countdown said:

As long as the economy is doing well it does no harm if you are borrowing to finance long term capital investment.

However the traitorous Libor party didn't invest in long term capital investment, projects of that type were funded with off balance sheet PPI agreements

[AndrewW-G]

Countdown said:

AndrewW-G said:

Countdown said:

I never suggested you used the word catastrophic

You did, and you've now edited your post . . . . . .

Nahhh....that was to correct grammar and spelling. You know how vicious and cruel PH can be

Stop lying

[Countdown]

AndrewW-G said:

Countdown said:

As long as the economy is doing well it does no harm if you are borrowing to finance long term capital investment.

However the traitorous Libor party didn't invest in long term capital investment, projects of that type were funded with off balance sheet PPI agreements

No. It was used to bring down waiting lists (remember them) to build new schools, and to increase the number of police so that crime was reduced. Not to worry, all that can be fixed

[fido]

Countdown - are you Ed Balls? I've never seen such a vigorous defence of Gordon Brown.

"As long as the economy is doing well it does no harm if you are borrowing to finance long term capital investment."
and where are the fruits of this long term capital investment?
"No significent increase in tax"
do we live in the same country?

Edited by fido on Sunday 15th July 23:30

[Mr GrimNasty]

Countdown, you're good value for money, are you on all week?

[wollowizard]

Countdown said:

It wasn't a linear relationship but GDP is a good guide to the affordability (or otherwise) of borrowing. As long as the economy is doing well it does no harm if you are borrowing to finance long term capital investment.

Well £1.5 trillion is some inveatment.

[Murph7355]

Countdown said:

No. It was used to bring down waiting lists (remember them) to build new schools, and to increase the number of police so that crime was reduced. Not to worry, all that can be fixed

Because all of those things were fixed properly.

Do you have the figures to demonstrate which areas of govt expenditure increased most during the last government's tenure perchance?

And whether the economy's doing well or not, is owing a trillion quid and adding to the pile at 100bn a year ever a good idea?

[turbobloke]

fido said:

Countdown - are you Ed Balls? I've never seen such a vigorous defence of Gordon Brown.

"As long as the economy is doing well it does no harm if you are borrowing to finance long term capital investment."
and where are the fruits of this long term capital investment?
"No significent increase in tax"
do we live in the same country?

Was wondering the same things. Public sector expansion and 156 stealth taxes under Gordon Clown must have passed some people by. A lot of the non-jobs have now gone. What we got for it was an imminent meeting with the IMF.

Presclot prevented a lot of investment in infrastructure by scrapping plans for bypasses, which Surrey university showed from Newbury can benefit the environment as well as commercial and domestic road users.

So much clottery and clowning around with increased taxes, increased waste and ballooning debt cost the country dear.

[DSM2]

Countdown said:

DSM2 said:

And it would be interesting to know how it is formed.

History already shows that the last labour administration was the most catastrophic ever seen. We are all paying the price and will do for generations. It is difficult to imagine any aspect of our lives that any other government could damage more.

When you say catastrophic, how much do you think was down to Labour policies and how much was due to global issues. As you're probably aware there IS a recession amongst most of the major western economies.

There are many countries that have not suffered economically anything like we and others have. Indeed they have only recently suffered as the malaise created by Blair, Brown and other Countries' similarly socialist, blinkered leaders has taken deep root.

Brown's complete ignorance of basic reality, overwhelming arrogance and profligacy played a huge part in the problem. It might be argued that he simply followed what others were doing, though the opposite is just as arguable, but either way it demonstrated a level of ignorance rarely seen.

I don't think his lack of visibility since the GE is a coincidence, do you? Even he realises he screwed up and is one of the most reviled men in the nation, even within the labour party.

God help the kids for whom he has crawled out of his hole to help, they'll need it.

[DSM2]

Countdown said:

It wasn't a linear relationship but GDP is a good guide to the affordability (or otherwise) of borrowing. As long as the economy is doing well it does no harm if you are borrowing to finance long term capital investment.

Look Ed, 'investing' in projects that have no return, and there were many, is never a sound idea. It's made even worse when you do it with money you don't have.

You never did have a grasp of basic economics, did you, just like your mate Gordon?

[Countdown]

DSM2 said:

Look Ed, 'investing' in projects that have no return, and there were many, is never a sound idea. It's made even worse when you do it with money you don't have.

Not sure which projects you're referring to?

DSM2 said:

You never did have a grasp of basic economics, did you, just like your mate Gordon?

IO'm not a fan of Mr Balls or even GB. It's just that phrases like "catastrophic" and "traitorous" seem to be accepted at face value on PH, whereas the evidence doesn't seem to support that.

[Digga]

Countdown said:

It was used to bring down waiting lists (remember them)

I remember being able to wait in Stafford A&E at a time of my choice. Following the disastrous mismanagment of the country, I cannot now do so between the hours of 2000 and 0800.

[Countdown]

DSM2 said:

There are many countries that have not suffered economically anything like we and others have. Indeed they have only recently suffered as the malaise created by Blair, Brown and other Countries' similarly socialist, blinkered leaders has taken deep root.

Do you consider the US to be socialist? That aside I agree that it's a problem which has accepted many western economies and is not unique to the UK - ergo it cannot be solely Gordon Brown's "fault". As a society we are losing/have lost our competitive edge and as a result we can't afford the social welfare provided by the State. Most of our manufacturing base has been exported to low labour cost economies which means profits for shareholders but not necessarily any benefit to UK workers

DSM2 said:

Brown's complete ignorance of basic reality, overwhelming arrogance and profligacy played a huge part in the problem. It might be argued that he simply followed what others were doing, though the opposite is just as arguable, but either way it demonstrated a level of ignorance rarely seen.

Again, I think that's exaggeration. I don't agree with his spending plans, neither did a lot of other people, which is why the Coalition is in power. What I have my doubts about his him having caused some huge financial tsunami. His spending plans were more the victim rather than the cause of global events.

DSM2 said:

I don't think his lack of visibility since the GE is a coincidence, do you? Even he realises he screwed up and is one of the most reviled men in the nation, even within the labour party.

God help the kids for whom he has crawled out of his hole to help, they'll need it.

Oh alright then. yes, he's evil personfied. May allah insert a thousand chillies into the rectum of this financial shaitan.

[Countdown]

Digga said:

Countdown said:

It was used to bring down waiting lists (remember them)

I remember being able to wait in Stafford A&E at a time of my choice. Following the disastrous mismanagment of the country, I cannot now do so between the hours of 2000 and 0800.

Not sure if this link works.

Wiating List stats

You may notice a certain trend pre-19976 and post-1997. I worked in the NHS in the early to mid 1990s. The amount of financial bureaucracy created by the internal market reforms was fantastic, if you wanted a job in NHS finance We had entire teams whose role was to raise invoices to GP Fundholders and Commissioners who had similar reciprocal teams. And, 20 years later, those lessons have been forgotten and we intend to go full circle. Which suggests to me that GB doesn't have a monopoly on profligacy and incompetence.

Edited by Countdown on Monday 16th July 14:03

[Countdown]

Murph7355 said:

Countdown said:

No. It was used to bring down waiting lists (remember them) to build new schools, and to increase the number of police so that crime was reduced. Not to worry, all that can be fixed

Because all of those things were fixed properly.

Nope - but in my opinion we were heading in the right direction. Do you think that cutting taxes will fix them?

Murph7355 said:

Do you have the figures to demonstrate which areas of govt expenditure increased most during the last government's tenure perchance?

no idea. Was it welfare benefits? Gordo was very keen on helping the poor. I blame his religious upbringing

Murph7355 said:

And whether the economy's doing well or not, is owing a trillion quid and adding to the pile at 100bn a year ever a good idea?

Nope, it never is. Absolutely stupid living on credit - you wouldn't catch me doing it [A bit like getting a loan to buy a car instead of saving up...]

[Countdown]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Countdown, you're good value for money, are you on all week?

Yes, yes I am. Try the Veal tikka masala. Don't forget to tip Rajneesh on the way out.

[Digga]

Countdown said:

GB doesn't have a monopoly on profligacy and incompetence.

I will agree to that. Sadly, we have allowed ourselves to become governed by people who, broadly speaking, never achieved anything, let alone ever had the ambition to.

[Ayahuasca]

deadslow said:

is this just a spite/hate thread?

Yes, but well deserved!

[wollowizard]

deadslow said:

is this just a spite/hate thread?

No! it is the start of the Margaret Thatcher appreciation society of which you will be glad to be one of the founding members as this allows yuo the honour of wearing two blue rosettes instead of the customary one.

[hornet]

Countdown said:

DSM2 said:

Look Ed, 'investing' in projects that have no return, and there were many, is never a sound idea. It's made even worse when you do it with money you don't have.

Not sure which projects you're referring to?

Not taking sides here, but what about these?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labo...

Granted, they are project failures as opposed to malinvestments, but still don't put Labour in an especially good light.