Peugeot-Citroen agrees deal with GM to buy Vauxhall-Opel
Discussion
I forgot about the Viva - kind of says it all about their current model range I guess. One or the other might not get a replacement then, it's hard to say why they are making 2 sub-Corsa models.
List of current GM factories:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_General_Mo...
List of current GM factories:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_General_Mo...
davepoth said:
All across Europe Opel is the kind of brand people say "ugh" about much more than they do about Vauxhall in the UK...
Interesting observation. As someone who only associates Opel with the Manta, the mention does not fill me with the same level of total apathy that Vauxhall does. Given the choice what would Brits rather own; an Opel Speedster, a Daewoo Speedster or a Vauxhall VX220?Pistonheads said:
It's a deal worth 2.2 billion euros (with Opel valued at 1.3 billion and Vauxhall at 900 million)
Not quite - looks like Mr Bird had a speed-read of the PSA press release. They paid €1.3bn for Opel/Vauxhall, and €0.9bn for GM Finance. This is it: http://media.groupe-psa.com/en/press-releases/grou...Edited by BFleming on Sunday 12th March 17:22
Crafty_ said:
Why wouldn't they do a dacia ? admittedly they've bought a known name to give them a kickstart rather than start from scratch. Fleet sales that have reasonable budget can be shifted to Peugeot, the cheap end of the market that PSA don't really cover can be occupied by Opel.
Yes but if you want to do Dacia stuff, you don't need to buy another brand. Dacias are great value for money for customers that just don't care about the brand (they would not buy Romanian otherwise...). And with the kind of cash that PSA paid for Opel/Vauxhall they could do a full range of cars.Crafty_ said:
Either way in the big scheme of things for mundane box on four wheels Vauxhall compete with Peugeot and the rest of them right now - why would you continue doing that ? i.e. sell a 2008 and an Astra for roughly the same price, with roughly the same features - it makes no sense.
Except sharing R&D costs, which are already huge and increasing.Crafty_ said:
Anecdotal, but I've heard several people mention in passing that whilst they have previously bought Vauxhalls they wouldn't entertain a PSA based one.
Some people don't like french cars I guess. While I wouldn't necessarily buy a current Vauxhall I haven't see anything from Peugeot since the 205 that is of any interest at all.
That would be true for some people, but how many are they among the general public ?Some people don't like french cars I guess. While I wouldn't necessarily buy a current Vauxhall I haven't see anything from Peugeot since the 205 that is of any interest at all.
And no interesting Peugeot since the 205 ? What about the 306 ? 405/406 ? 208 GTi by Peugeot Sport ?
Crafty_ said:
Nothing wrong with Opel engines and I'd suggest that for the performance orientated stuff they've done a better job than PSA. All I ever hear from PSA petrol engines are rattles.
Come on, the timing chain issue on the 1,6 PSA turbo engine is long solved, and the 1,2 turbo 3 cylinders are great. But where PSA is really better is platforms, they are much lighter than GM ones. I liked the Astra VXR for instance, but it's 250 kg heavier than a 308 Gti...Crafty_ said:
The only reason to buy a PSA Vauxhall over a Peugeot will be price. If they try and make the brands compete I can't see its going to end well, if they try and cover different price segments of the market they can shift more volume - people with more budget will look at Peugeots, those without buy Opel/Vauxhalls.
I wonder how well this deal is going down in Germany?
They'll keep a different design, and PSA already said their interest for buying Opel was that it's a German brand, which could appeal to the people who would never buy French.I wonder how well this deal is going down in Germany?
Tavares (CEO of PSA) might be known as a cost-cutter but he is a big petrolhead. He acutally races cars so don't be surprised to see some strong product coming through. At the end of the day the basic principles of any business applies. Reduce waste and re-spend the money you've saved on things which buyers want aka which then makes money. Which in terms of cars, are building better more desirable cars. Tavares knows this, and like I said, he actually loves cars. We'll wait and see but my money will be him making a big success of the deal, and PSA somewhere creating an Alpine equivalent just like Renault (his previous firm as it happens).
s2art said:
I have a friend with an insignia, and my sis has a corsa. Not very exiting cars but reliable, economical and do the job. So what the hell is wrong with them?
The Insignia is hateful.My Dad had a 1.8 one as a hire car.
The seats were horrible
It didn't move at all. Flat in 3rd up a slight incline it would not accelerate.
The ride was hard
And it seems every single
on the road is in an Insignia.No longer is it the Audi flashing / tailgating. It's always an Insignia.
This has probably been said already but I can't see the benefit of keeping the vauxhall name around at all. Everyone knows they're just rebadged Opals. I'm sure the group would save money by being able to sell the same RHD cars in the UK & Ireland for instance. Any bean counter is most likely to go for the jugular on that one. Have to say I'm unaware as to how Vaux are perceived in Europe however..
Is there actually *any* decent (or indecent for that matter) Vauxhall that isn't sold as an Opal elsewhere?
As someone who has fond memories of "decent" vauxhalls (hello 1980's bar the odd Lotus or holden) I can't see where the badge will fit as their usp seems to be "a bit meh".
While there may be some mileage in dropping the name for a few years entirely to be revived as a sporty badge to differentiate it with the equally "meh" Opal, I really don't see the marketing wisdom as that hasn't been their bag for so long.
That being said, many people thought VW were nuts buying the butt of everyones jokes Skoda, and that seemed to do them OK - and boy there's some product overlap in the VW camp too (vw, skoda & seat especially), though again they don't make exactly the same car with a different badge..
Would anyone actually miss vauxhall?
Is there actually *any* decent (or indecent for that matter) Vauxhall that isn't sold as an Opal elsewhere?
As someone who has fond memories of "decent" vauxhalls (hello 1980's bar the odd Lotus or holden) I can't see where the badge will fit as their usp seems to be "a bit meh".
While there may be some mileage in dropping the name for a few years entirely to be revived as a sporty badge to differentiate it with the equally "meh" Opal, I really don't see the marketing wisdom as that hasn't been their bag for so long.
That being said, many people thought VW were nuts buying the butt of everyones jokes Skoda, and that seemed to do them OK - and boy there's some product overlap in the VW camp too (vw, skoda & seat especially), though again they don't make exactly the same car with a different badge..
Would anyone actually miss vauxhall?
The only thing about that car that wasn't fit for purpose imho..Fetchez la vache said:
This has probably been said already but I can't see the benefit of keeping the vauxhall name around at all. Everyone knows they're just rebadged Opals. I'm sure the group would save money by being able to sell the same RHD cars in the UK & Ireland for instance.
They're already Opel in Ireland, and have been for many years.Fetchez la vache said:
Any bean counter is most likely to go for the jugular on that one.
What would be the cost of rebranding every single dealer, and how would it affect sales?Fetchez la vache said:
Is there actually *any* decent (or indecent for that matter) Vauxhall that isn't sold as an Opal elsewhere?
The various V8 Holdens weren't sold with Opel badges, I don't think - but, apart from them, the last car that only carried a Vauxhall badge was the HC Viva, which was dropped in 1979. There were some minor styling and engine differences in the 1970s and early 80s, but that was it.xjay1337 said:
The Insignia is hateful.
My Dad had a 1.8 one as a hire car.
The seats were horrible
It didn't move at all. Flat in 3rd up a slight incline it would not accelerate.
The ride was hard
And it seems every single on the road is in an Insignia.
No longer is it the Audi flashing / tailgating. It's always an Insignia.
The last bit is very true.My Dad had a 1.8 one as a hire car.
The seats were horrible
It didn't move at all. Flat in 3rd up a slight incline it would not accelerate.
The ride was hard
And it seems every single
on the road is in an Insignia.No longer is it the Audi flashing / tailgating. It's always an Insignia.
You missed out on it having some of the numbest steering ever fitted to a car. You'd think it was steer by wire. Logitech's worst effort, unplugged, gives more feedback than the Insignia.
Camlet said:
Tavares (CEO of PSA) might be known as a cost-cutter but he is a big petrolhead. He acutally races cars so don't be surprised to see some strong product coming through. At the end of the day the basic principles of any business applies. Reduce waste and re-spend the money you've saved on things which buyers want aka which then makes money. Which in terms of cars, are building better more desirable cars. Tavares knows this, and like I said, he actually loves cars. We'll wait and see but my money will be him making a big success of the deal, and PSA somewhere creating an Alpine equivalent just like Renault (his previous firm as it happens).
I think he's been doing a good job. And PSA cars are becoming very decent again. I loved the RCZ (though its face is either ugly troll or dim simpleton (facelift))... the 208 and 308 GTi are very good and the DS3\DS3 sport isn't a duffer either. Just watched a car test with one of those, a fiesta ST and Clio 220 RS. It didn't come last. Handles well, is fast enough and importantly has that supple ride to go with it and its much nice place to sit than either of the other two. A guy at my swim club got himself a 308 SW after years of Fords. Absolutely raves about it. Looks good, plenty of hi-tech gizmos and extremely comfortable, refined ride (which is what he likes).
They're getting the bread and butter right again. So yes, next step is to see them produce something a bit special.
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