Long term solution to our economic woes

[steveT350C]

It's not rocket science.



It's all science!



"more money was spent in just one year bailing out our banks than has been spent on science since Jesus was alive"

Quote from Prof Brian Cox on Thursday night's This Week.



A few minutes of eye opening viewing here, start at 35:00. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/...

[steveT350C]

Derek Chevalier said:

steveT350C said:

It's not rocket science.



It's all science!



"more money was spent in just one year bailing out our banks than has been spent on science since Jesus was alive"

Quote from Prof Brian Cox on Thursday night's This Week.



A few minutes of eye opening viewing here, start at 35:00. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/...

Does science pay corporation tax?

Science invents stuff that can be made into products and sold by companies that will pay corporation tax.


The example of graphene is on the iplayer link.

[steveT350C]

London424 said:

steveT350C said:

Derek Chevalier said:

steveT350C said:

It's not rocket science.



It's all science!



"more money was spent in just one year bailing out our banks than has been spent on science since Jesus was alive"

Quote from Prof Brian Cox on Thursday night's This Week.



A few minutes of eye opening viewing here, start at 35:00. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/...

Does science pay corporation tax?

Science invents stuff that can be made into products and sold by companies that will pay corporation tax.


The example of graphene is on the iplayer link.

Don't companies have nice expensive R&D departments coming up with the science type stuff?

Yes they do, which must mean this type of investing works.

Edited by steveT350C on Saturday 7th July 10:32

[steveT350C]

AJS- said:

steveT350C said:

London424 said:

Don't companies have nice expensive R&D departments coming up with the science type stuff?

Yes they do, which must mean this type of investing works.

And that it's happening already, funded and controlled by people who have a far better record of making successful investments than governments. So the last thing they need is the government wading in and squandering precious financial and intellectual resources on their effort to make solar powered wind turbines out of renewable weetabix.

Really there's too much of this on Pistonheads at the moment. What do you mean by spending on science? Will you be buying everyone a chemistry kit?

The long term solution to our economic woes is the same as it's been since we have had a functioning economy to be woeful about. Private property, the rule of law, reasonable and predictable regulations and low taxes.

Science, like art, industry and nearly anything else you care to mention does best when the government provides this framework and stays well clear of the rest of it.

Of course the private sector understand how to invest in and bring products to markets.


'spending on science' could mean tax breaks or cheap loans for companies already developing new technology.


It is a shame there is only one MP with a science background. Maybe we need to stop voting for lawyers and financiers to be our MPs, then wasting money on wind turbines would cease.

[steveT350C]

Otispunkmeyer said:

London424 said:

steveT350C said:

Derek Chevalier said:

steveT350C said:

It's not rocket science.



It's all science!



"more money was spent in just one year bailing out our banks than has been spent on science since Jesus was alive"

Quote from Prof Brian Cox on Thursday night's This Week.



A few minutes of eye opening viewing here, start at 35:00. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/...

Does science pay corporation tax?

Science invents stuff that can be made into products and sold by companies that will pay corporation tax.


The example of graphene is on the iplayer link.

Don't companies have nice expensive R&D departments coming up with the science type stuff?

They do, but as I currently work in research ( engineering and science) there are plenty of companies who basically get universities and the like to do the really out there (read risky) stuff and sometimes with financial backing from the government. Basically gives the company an almost free ride in some cases. The prject I work on is part funded by a company, but the vast majority of the cash is government. This means the company could get a game changing new technology for minimal outlay. Big companies do have R&D depts, but they are very risk averse, so they don't always push the envelope in case they end up spending lots on something that eventually bares no fruit.

And at the moment I haven't yet met a physicist that doesnt do government funded research (and isn't chronically under funded). The real blue sky physics stuff is very risky, but it's the stuff that advances us the most when it works.... The other thing is this type of research doesn't usually lead to a ready to sell product, sometimes for years and years. So companies just don't do it. It's down to government to spend the money on this type of science.

Thank you Otispunkmeyer. Your explanation using blue sky physics and risk aversion is exactly the point I wanted to make earlier.

In fact, the point of this thread was to discuss the idea that providing more funding to pay for scientists to have more of a free reign for blue sky science will reap huge benefits.

Edited by steveT350C on Sunday 8th July 10:47

Edited by steveT350C on Sunday 8th July 10:48

[steveT350C]

AJS- said:

So how would you actually go about investing in "science"?

A really good question AJS.

The government has our money.

Out of the 650 MPs we have, just one has a had a career in science, two others have PhDs.

The vast majority of the public who vote, end up voting for lawyers or financiers because lawyers or financiers are all that are on offer from the blues, reds or yellows.

This needs to change.

Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 10th July 20:52

[steveT350C]

EliseNick said:

Also, here are some smaller examples;

http://www.rcuk.ac.uk/documents/publications/impac...

Wikipedia thinks that tech spinouts from Cambridge alone were valued at $6bn in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_fen

Excellent links, thank you EliseNick.

Whilst I have every respect for the regular contributors on PH who discuss the financial troubles that face us, mostly the EZ, and whether the UK should be in the EU, there is a lack of positivity.

We do need to address the current issues of national deficit and debt, but equally we must invest in areas that will build long term prosperity for us.

Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 10th July 21:27

[steveT350C]

Use Psychology said:

AJS- said:

They bare a lot of similarities in that sense though. Both require a lot of funding, of usually unpopular and off beat ideas until one strikes gold and makes a big impact, and then a lot of money.

Both are valid components of an economy, but I don't see why one is inherently more worthy of economic subsidy than the other.

then you don't understand where medicine, electricity, electronics, microelectronics, semiconductors, superconductors, lasers, motor cars, trains, aeroplanes, oil tankers, motorways, communications satellites, computers, the internet, plastics, television, batteries, telephones, radio, and on and on and on come from.

Do we remember Tony Blair courting Oasis et al, Cool Britannia?

I guess that was a government investing in the arts.

Not long term though...

[steveT350C]

Quote from AJS

2) I wouldn't dispute that scientific advances have positive economic consequences, but is there anything anywhere to show any causal link between public spending on scientific research and economic growth?


http://www.harriman-house.com/bookfiles/spinouts/S...


A review of a book looking at companies set up as spinoffs from University research.

A brief summary:

Oxford Uni invested £70m building new chemistry lab in 2004. £22m came from venture capital. Why do this?

It did this because since the 1980s, companies set up as spinoffs from its chemistry dept had generated £80m of funds for the University, as well as creating jobs and paying corporation tax.


This is one example, from one university, from one of its departments.