Ethical banks surge in new accounts
Discussion
Unsurprisingly people are switching out of the big five into smaller ethical banks. The Co-operative bank has seen a 42% increase in new accounts this week alone with others also seeing increases. Another sign that tells the big five 'enough is enough'. Is anyone surprised, no nor am I.
Bank lovers will suggest that the small accounts are more trouble then there worth perhaps, which is another way of telling us we are not interested in serving the public?
Bank lovers will suggest that the small accounts are more trouble then there worth perhaps, which is another way of telling us we are not interested in serving the public?
thinfourth2 said:
grumbledoak said:
I think 'people' are woefully ignorant as to the (complete lack of) importance of their current accounts in all this.
Exactly as a customer i am nothing more then a nasty inconvenienceThe sooner i can f
k off the better for the bank and the better for meYes the time of big banks serving customers has long since gone, as I alluded to in my O.P. However, this may change when the retail side has to stand alone. Or perhaps the retail side will simply close its doors, in which case that will be good news. It will release some high street bank facilities for the ethical small fry to continue mopping up those retail customers. I guess this in turn will release a little pressure of the continuing hate campaign from Joe Public toward the big banks. That is until they realise they are being shafted by the investment banks from all other angles.
Alucidnation said:
Are there any others that anyone can recommend?
Well worth reading if your serious about ethical banking and loads of other information. www.ethicalconsumer.orgheppers75 said:
crankedup said:
Its very easy to change from one bank to another, with the diabolical service offered by the big bank retail outlets I'm surprised that anyone would want to keep an account open with them.
Yes the time of big banks serving customers has long since gone, as I alluded to in my O.P. However, this may change when the retail side has to stand alone. Or perhaps the retail side will simply close its doors, in which case that will be good news. It will release some high street bank facilities for the ethical small fry to continue mopping up those retail customers. I guess this in turn will release a little pressure of the continuing hate campaign from Joe Public toward the big banks. That is until they realise they are being shafted by the investment banks from all other angles.
The issue of course is old chap that these lovely free services everyone gets today will all of a sudden come with a pretty hefty cost, do you think Visa Debit networks, Cash Machines and payments processing is something that comes at a zero cost?Yes the time of big banks serving customers has long since gone, as I alluded to in my O.P. However, this may change when the retail side has to stand alone. Or perhaps the retail side will simply close its doors, in which case that will be good news. It will release some high street bank facilities for the ethical small fry to continue mopping up those retail customers. I guess this in turn will release a little pressure of the continuing hate campaign from Joe Public toward the big banks. That is until they realise they are being shafted by the investment banks from all other angles.
The only reason all these services are free today is that they are subsidised through the very investment arms you wish to disassociate from retail.
Once more the law of unintended consequences should this come to light will prove a right SoB for Joe Public!
For others, they will want to continue their personal banking with the big five perhaps.
fbrs said:
ive had a first direct account for about 15 years, in that time i've never set foot in a bank branch and never had grounds for complaint about their free service. wtf is everyone moaning about, why does anyone need branches?
Erm, because some people prefer to use face to face for financial transactions. Perhaps some people do not have P.C's. And no doubt lots of other good reasons.Derek Smith said:
Banking has changed remarkably. In 1976 my bank manager called me in to discuss a problem that had been brought to his attention. I had just changed jobs and I was using my savings to pay weekly bills. He advised me how to change things for the better. He seemed concerned.
Not nowadays though. I could give a nubmer of examples, as could many people, of where they just try and screw every penny they can out of you. The banks are nothing more than money making machines. When I suddenly started to get a regular income into my business account they wanted to talk to me. I was given coffee, buscuits, a nice confortable interview room and a nice friendly smile, right up until I presented my business plan showing that I would fund any costs through profit and if I had no profit, there would be no purchases. Off went the smile and if she could have dragged the coffee from me I feel sure she would have done.
Ethical? Isn't that what every bank should be given the fact that they are trusted?
I've been told that we are moving banks. This by my wife. She's read about ethical, understands the extra charge but points out, quite clearly, that when you consider what banks have charged us in the past for their free banking, the costs are not going to be that much higher. I can't remember the last time I went into a bank. I get cash from 'cashback' at supermarkets. I can't remember the last time I used an ATM.
Thanks for the link to Ethical.
Your welcome. This is just the shake up some retail banks from the big five need, of course I expect most branches are staffed by good honest people, the problem is they have to work under the employers M.O.Not nowadays though. I could give a nubmer of examples, as could many people, of where they just try and screw every penny they can out of you. The banks are nothing more than money making machines. When I suddenly started to get a regular income into my business account they wanted to talk to me. I was given coffee, buscuits, a nice confortable interview room and a nice friendly smile, right up until I presented my business plan showing that I would fund any costs through profit and if I had no profit, there would be no purchases. Off went the smile and if she could have dragged the coffee from me I feel sure she would have done.
Ethical? Isn't that what every bank should be given the fact that they are trusted?
I've been told that we are moving banks. This by my wife. She's read about ethical, understands the extra charge but points out, quite clearly, that when you consider what banks have charged us in the past for their free banking, the costs are not going to be that much higher. I can't remember the last time I went into a bank. I get cash from 'cashback' at supermarkets. I can't remember the last time I used an ATM.
Thanks for the link to Ethical.
hornet said:
How are we defining "ethical" here? I've moved some savings out of Santander into Yorkshire Building Society recently, but that was a much about not having all my eggs in one basket as any ethical concerns. Were I a Metro Bank or Virgin Money, I'd be pushing out a tonne of marketing highlighting the "safe and sensible" business plan. Will be interesting to see what sort of traction they can get in the coming years.
Its a fair point you raise, I can say the Co-operative banking service have been trading 'ethically' since 1993. Should any business trade as such and slip up during an non-ethical during a trading situation they will surely be in troubled waters. But the point is, ethical trading is a culture not a marketing tool. Any business can make a mistake or, as is oft said in here, unintended consequences can occur. This is somewhat different to the non ethical trader.heppers75 said:
AJS- said:
heppers75 said:
The only reason all these services are free today is that they are subsidised through the very investment arms you wish to disassociate from retail.
Don't they do this though, to have access to the vast, low interest liquidity provided by consumer deposits? Their most profitable arms may well be trading and corporate finance but without retail deposits neither would be possible on the scale they do them.Genuine question.
don4l said:
crankedup said:
Unsurprisingly people are switching out of the big five into smaller ethical banks. The Co-operative bank has seen a 42% increase in new accounts this week alone with others also seeing increases. Another sign that tells the big five 'enough is enough'. Is anyone surprised, no nor am I.
Bank lovers will suggest that the small accounts are more trouble then there worth perhaps, which is another way of telling us we are not interested in serving the public?
Is this the same Co-op that was recently exposed for screwing over dairy farmers?Bank lovers will suggest that the small accounts are more trouble then there worth perhaps, which is another way of telling us we are not interested in serving the public?
Tesco, M&S, Sainsbury's and Waitrose all had policies in place to ensure that farmers were able to make a profit. The "ethical" Co-op, along with Morrisons and ASDA, was paying less than the cost of production.
I'm gobsmacked that anybody could be gullible enough to believe a company that spends millions on a marketing campaign that says "trust us - we are ethical".
I was taught to judge people by their actions, and not their words.
Don
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Murph7355 said:
crankedup said:
Its very easy to change from one bank to another, with the diabolical service offered by the big bank retail outlets I'm surprised that anyone would want to keep an account open with them.
Yes the time of big banks serving customers has long since gone, as I alluded to in my O.P. However, this may change when the retail side has to stand alone. Or perhaps the retail side will simply close its doors, in which case that will be good news. It will release some high street bank facilities for the ethical small fry to continue mopping up those retail customers. I guess this in turn will release a little pressure of the continuing hate campaign from Joe Public toward the big banks. That is until they realise they are being shafted by the investment banks from all other angles.
Quoted all of it so as not to be accused of losing context, but do you mean what I think you mean on the bit in bold? Not only would you like to see banks split up, but you think it would be "good news" if the retail side closed down?Yes the time of big banks serving customers has long since gone, as I alluded to in my O.P. However, this may change when the retail side has to stand alone. Or perhaps the retail side will simply close its doors, in which case that will be good news. It will release some high street bank facilities for the ethical small fry to continue mopping up those retail customers. I guess this in turn will release a little pressure of the continuing hate campaign from Joe Public toward the big banks. That is until they realise they are being shafted by the investment banks from all other angles.
Crikey, you really, really do dislike anything to do with banking and the finance sector don't you. Did a cashier sleep with your wife or a mortgage advisor kick your dog or something?
As for my dislike for banking, no I have no problem with banking when it can offer good honest service
that has been part of the Companies policy for the past couple of decades. Its a culture thing.
AJS- said:
crankedup said:
No it shouldn't damage the retail outlets. It is for the retail branches to up their game and win customers with competitive good honest service. If they cannot do that then closure will be on the doorstep. Genuine open competition, which is where most businesses trade.
Why is there so little competition in retail banking then?Incidentally, First Direct is owned by HSBC
Also you mention that First Direct are owned by HSBC, not sure what this has to do with any matters I have raised?
AJS- said:
crankedup said:
Why is there so little competition in retail banking then?
Incidentally, First Direct is owned by HSBC
Because the big five have been busy for the last ten years closing down branches leaving customers with less choice. We don't all live in cities.Incidentally, First Direct is owned by HSBC
Also you mention that First Direct are owned by HSBC, not sure what this has to do with any matters I have raised?
FD has nothing to do with what you've raised. That was in response to a couple of other posters saying they were switching to them as though they were an alternative to the established banks.
Murph7355 said:
crankedup said:
Because the big five have been busy for the last ten years closing down branches leaving customers with less choice. We don't all live in cities.
Also you mention that First Direct are owned by HSBC, not sure what this has to do with any matters I have raised?
They haven't been doing this for sAlso you mention that First Direct are owned by HSBC, not sure what this has to do with any matters I have raised?
ts and giggles. We all want free stuff. Something gets squeezed. Under utilised, expensive to operate branches are an obvious candidate when cheaper technology driven solutions are accessible by most.Unintended consequences again. And I really cannot see Joe Public being happy about them.
Murph7355 said:
PS ref your op, is this volume of new accounts genuinely extraordinary? Or has it been a trend for a while? Are there other factors influencing it (eg have they just offered an account with free meerkat toys? Or 20% interest on balances for 6mths?)?? Have the number of accounts in "unethical" banks dropped by a similar or larger amount? And how many accounts does 42% relate to (is it just you and Steffan opening an account this week causing the spike or are we talking millions of people?)???
The stat of itself is totally meaningless without proper context. Unless, of course, you're simply looking to support a belief...
www.bankingtimes.co.uk/bank/co-op/The stat of itself is totally meaningless without proper context. Unless, of course, you're simply looking to support a belief...
Murph7355 said:
crankedup said:
Thanks.Which article at the link? I can see quite a few about Co-Op upping savings rates, creating new savings product and talking to LLoyds about buying branches but couldn't see the 42% stat (well I could, but only in relation to Britons saving for Christmas. 42 really is the universal answer
).Increased again from 42% to over 60% now.
Murph7355 said:
crankedup said:
The %ages quoted though are meaningless without full context. And The Manchester Evening News does not give any (probably because the reporter understands mathematics as well as Joe Public appears to).There is no information to support why this has happened, there is no information to show the figures in unethical banks have dropped, there is nothing to show this is wildly out of the ordinary.
Without context, it's a rubbish number to support a viewpoint. Though I guess to report properly would have taken the pencil chewer a bit more effort.
fbrs said:
crankedup said:
Erm, because some people prefer to use face to face for financial transactions. Perhaps some people do not have P.C's. And no doubt lots of other good reasons.
like i said i dont get it, even my 70 year old parents have online banking. there used to be a 'bank' with many more branches than any other providing basic counter services to serve the local community staffed by salaried rather than bonus incentivised staff who knew their local customers and were part of the community. it also had state backed investment products offering subsidised rates from the treasury. it sounds like this should be wildly popular but if the post office has all but given up i dont hold up much hope for your ethical banking er effortEdited by fbrs on Friday 13th July 14:39
I agree with what you say about the old post offices and so on, however, the latest highly publicised banking scandals have provided a tipping point. It seems that people are sick and tired of the old ways of how banks do business and are looking to find alternatives. I don't have proof, although I have given some links to support growth in new accounts by ethical banks. Thats not enough for some posters though who seem to be in suspended animation of thought and mind, needing proof positive things are actually changing.
Murph7355 said:
crankedup said:
Fair enough. I don't imagine the Co-operative bank will shout out about their competitors being crap but lets wait and see the numbers when they are published. I will have a dig around to see if I can fined some numbers but don't hold your breath. You do realise that Manchester is the head office area for Co-operative bank?
Indeed I do (used to live just down the road from the pyramid as a student). So you agree that the figure you based your thread on could (a) be very biased and (b) mean feck all in the overall scheme of things.
This is an example of what the media do to get people all frothy. And yet you believe it and use it as the basis for getting all red faced and angry.
Weird.
Lots of cynicism was displayed in this forum last year when I went on about the binding voting rights for shareholders, that is now accepted these changes are being actioned. Like this thread, some cynicism because people such as yourself find it difficult to cope with changes perhaps.
fbrs said:
crankedup said:
I am a supporter of ethical trading and fairtrade, but just a supporter making as much noise to promote the ethos as 'banker fans' like to defend banks.
i dont believe for a second the employees of these 'ethical' firms are any different from the big banks you so despise, they have just spent some cash on an 'ethical' consultant to come up with some marketting guff to corner a little niche of the hard of thinking, present company excepted 
as for being a 'bank fan' please don't include me in that, anyone who worked for an investment bank as long as i did knows exactly how they work and very few are fans of the banks or more specifically their pi55 poor management. conversely its hard to idly watch some of you guys spout utter nonsense on here. i do find it strange that when people's poor understanding of finance is corrected the person explaining is either ignored or accused of having some strange bank fetish... ho hum. ps one wonders if the same energy went in to building alternative revenue sources as has gone into paying bankers less if we wouldnt be booming again!
Your take on Ethical Trading is completely and utterly incorrect, and I also would include Fairtrade as a source of worthwhile reading.
Its not just about paying bankers less, thats a small part of the problem.
My problem is that I have lost all confidence in the major banking system, until I see meaningful reforms in place and positive news about banking I intend to steer clear from it as much as is possible.
The list of scandals that have now become public knowledge, the banks part played in the 2007/8 crash, B.D. Select Committee interview recently, all of this and more has severely damaged the previous reputations perceived by the public.
I prefer to listen to and read elsewhere and then form my own opinion regarding the big banks M.O.
I fully appreciate that I am in a minority in here, if we all agreed it would be even more boring
We won't be booming again for at least another five years, most likely a lot more years than that.
Murph7355 said:
PS ref your op, is this volume of new accounts genuinely extraordinary? Or has it been a trend for a while? Are there other factors influencing it (eg have they just offered an account with free meerkat toys? Or 20% interest on balances for 6mths?)?? Have the number of accounts in "unethical" banks dropped by a similar or larger amount? And how many accounts does 42% relate to (is it just you and Steffan opening an account this week causing the spike or are we talking millions of people?)???
The stat of itself is totally meaningless without proper context. Unless, of course, you're simply looking to support a belief...
Piece in The Daily Mail today confirms the Co-operative Bank is now close to closing the deal with Lloyds Banking Group. This will see Co-operative increase the number of their branches by 632.The deal includes five million new customers which would triple the size of the Co-op's banking arm. From this we can say that the current number of accounts in Co-op is around 1.3 million approximately. So the 60% increase of new accounts opened during the past week must be around 600,000 or so. Not bad going.The stat of itself is totally meaningless without proper context. Unless, of course, you're simply looking to support a belief...
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