On £25k but 'poor'?! Misery thread...
Discussion
C.A.R. said:
However, with no higher education / degree then employers simply dismiss my application. I went through the process a few months ago prior to getting my payrise in May and had no interest / couldn't find a suitable position.
.
Neither do I, but I earn quite alot more than you do and i'm roughly the same age. Once you get to a certain point experience takes over. Perhaps your CV isn't selling you very well. Lots of people on here will look at it for you..
Or perhaps you live in the wrong area for your field of work, open up the search area and see what you find, might solve all your problems.
Like others have said you need to change either:- Location, job or both
from reading this thread, it seems your perception of what can and can't be done is the main limiting factor (umongst others).
the successful people I know are willing to travel (inc internationally) to get a step up, send millions of cv's to get the particular job they want, if they dont have the certs or education would go out and get them, would put their foot down with stupid demands at home and mtfu; self pity, making excuses or shoe gazing isn't going to get you out of schtuck.
the successful people I know are willing to travel (inc internationally) to get a step up, send millions of cv's to get the particular job they want, if they dont have the certs or education would go out and get them, would put their foot down with stupid demands at home and mtfu; self pity, making excuses or shoe gazing isn't going to get you out of schtuck.
- sorry for the tone of this as I've heard it all before, the 'oh you're lucky', 'I can't do it', 'its too much', or 'its not worth it' blah blah
okgo said:
Lots of people are sensible and wait until its feasible to have kids, LOTS more people are not. Most of them fall into a certain category of person.
But there's a world of difference between the OP who is struggling to fund a family but is not reliant on taxpayers' support versus the many tens of thousands of genuine scroungers whose income is 100% funded from the state before they pop out a child or more children.I think it very unfair to lump the 2 together. (not necessarily aimed at you okgo, as several posters have mentioned this).
was just thinking about this after speaking to another parent at my kids school this morning.
My calculations are probably wrong, but it was a shot at recreating a couple with one child and one earner at 25000, vs a couple living at different council houses with one child who have both had "major back problems".
Earner
Wage 25000
Income Tax 3000
National Insurance 2045
In Pocket 19955
Child Benefit One Child £1,025.00
Child Tax Credit One Child 341.36
Rent -4800
Water -373
Total 16148.36
Benefitter
Child Benefit One Child £1,025.00
Child Tax Credit One Child 2,750
Water 0
Rent 0
3343.6 dole 1 (not included)
3343.6 dole 2 (not included)
Mobility1 3000
Mobility2 3000
Person 1 ESA 3764.8
Person 2 ESA 3764.8
Total £17,304.60
My calculations are probably wrong, but it was a shot at recreating a couple with one child and one earner at 25000, vs a couple living at different council houses with one child who have both had "major back problems".
Earner
Wage 25000
Income Tax 3000
National Insurance 2045
In Pocket 19955
Child Benefit One Child £1,025.00
Child Tax Credit One Child 341.36
Rent -4800
Water -373
Total 16148.36
Benefitter
Child Benefit One Child £1,025.00
Child Tax Credit One Child 2,750
Water 0
Rent 0
3343.6 dole 1 (not included)
3343.6 dole 2 (not included)
Mobility1 3000
Mobility2 3000
Person 1 ESA 3764.8
Person 2 ESA 3764.8
Total £17,304.60
Edited by Efbe on Friday 13th June 10:57
Edited by Efbe on Friday 13th June 10:58
Your calculations probably aren't far wrong, which is why I try my best not to look at other peoples' situations, even when they are former peers of mine who I attended school with and I see regular updates of their holiday(s) on the likes of Facebook!
I'm not after more benefit, that's not how I want to live. I'm hoping that by having spent some time with my mum and dad and living frugally for a few months that even if we go back to private renting at circa £800/month we will have more money left in the pot.
I'm not after more benefit, that's not how I want to live. I'm hoping that by having spent some time with my mum and dad and living frugally for a few months that even if we go back to private renting at circa £800/month we will have more money left in the pot.
C.A.R. said:
Your calculations probably aren't far wrong, which is why I try my best not to look at other peoples' situations, even when they are former peers of mine who I attended school with and I see regular updates of their holiday(s) on the likes of Facebook!
I'm not after more benefit, that's not how I want to live. I'm hoping that by having spent some time with my mum and dad and living frugally for a few months that even if we go back to private renting at circa £800/month we will have more money left in the pot.
yep, wasn't suggesting tbh, it was just a conversation I had had earlier on today.I'm not after more benefit, that's not how I want to live. I'm hoping that by having spent some time with my mum and dad and living frugally for a few months that even if we go back to private renting at circa £800/month we will have more money left in the pot.
when scroungers talk about how little they get per week it annoys me quite a bit.
I have been in your situation a few years ago, now have 3 kids, on a 33k basic, prob more like 40k though and it's certainly not easy.
When I break down the costs it's mainly food blowing the budget. that and a huge increase of bills over the last couple of years. gas and electric increase of around 40%, but food increase of around the same, excluding the increase required for more mouths to feed.
renting at £800 a month is crazy money for me, but then I suppose you live in a nicer area than up north where I am.
tried a council house?
Bertrum said:
C.A.R. said:
However, with no higher education / degree then employers simply dismiss my application. I went through the process a few months ago prior to getting my payrise in May and had no interest / couldn't find a suitable position.
.
Neither do I, but I earn quite alot more than you do and i'm roughly the same age. Once you get to a certain point experience takes over. Perhaps your CV isn't selling you very well. Lots of people on here will look at it for you..
Or perhaps you live in the wrong area for your field of work, open up the search area and see what you find, might solve all your problems.
Like others have said you need to change either:- Location, job or both
Regardless, your pay for the area isn't good. You either find a better paying job, or find somewhere much cheaper to live (even if a small paycut comes into the equation). At the moment you are earning the average wage in an area with costs more than the average to live in. You need to tip the balance.
In regards to qualifications, is your employer open to sponsoring you through some relevant industry ones?
I think the OP will see this out and then enter into better times. I seem to remember my mum and dad really struggling back in the 80s but eventually things got better, particularly when my brother and myself were in school which meant my mum could go back to full time work. OK, back then the media labelled kids like us as 'latchkey kids' but mum worked local so was back home by around 5pm, so we were only alone for about an hour or so - which was great.
Once my mum was in full time work, things did get a lot better with regards to finances. But there were times before that when me and my brother thought my parents would split up over the finances. Looking back on it, I'm surprised they didn't because my dad told me not so long ago that they were on the verge of losing the house due to the Interest Rate hikes of the late 80s and early 90s.
Things got pretty grim...and luckily my Nan helped out at times with regards to money and our 'running costs' such as clothes for school, trainers and all those other 'expenses' which comes with kids. She would have helped more, but mum and dad were too proud to ask.
My old man once told me "things get s
t before they get better" and he was right. Keep battling through this OP, ignore the 'noise' which you have no control over and stay focused on getting your family through this tough stage.
Once my mum was in full time work, things did get a lot better with regards to finances. But there were times before that when me and my brother thought my parents would split up over the finances. Looking back on it, I'm surprised they didn't because my dad told me not so long ago that they were on the verge of losing the house due to the Interest Rate hikes of the late 80s and early 90s.
Things got pretty grim...and luckily my Nan helped out at times with regards to money and our 'running costs' such as clothes for school, trainers and all those other 'expenses' which comes with kids. She would have helped more, but mum and dad were too proud to ask.
My old man once told me "things get s
t before they get better" and he was right. Keep battling through this OP, ignore the 'noise' which you have no control over and stay focused on getting your family through this tough stage. Update:
Home ownership is now off the cards for the foreseeable.
Even if we can raise a 5% deposit to get a grasp of a 95% LTV mortgage our monthly outgoings will be significantly higher. Yes, rent prices have gone up locally, but I think the security of being able to chuck in the towel and move straight out if the sh*t hits the fan is probably better for us.
What has changed my opinion drastically over the last few days is seeing a friend of a friend who recently got involved in this 'help to buy' scheme for first-time buyers. Only he doesn't really own it. He owns a share in it which he is funding at quite high monthly repayments. They've recently had a baby and were told they couldn't decorate the bedroom they had intended for use as a nursery. We had more freedom in rented accomodation than that!
The plan now is to go back into rented accommodation, perhaps a bit further afield. We have accepted that a decent place could easily run to £850 PCM, but if we are strict with outgoings we can do it without slipping back into debt again.
Before moving out I want to have a 'contingency' fund of around £2k - way more than it needs to be, but if it's there we can dip into it and build it back up. Better than a credit card, I think.
Mrs is learning to drive and looking at passing in the next few weeks. Whilst this will bring in even more expense it does open up her work opportunities.
I'm transferring all of the debt to an interest-free credit card (0.5% transfer fee) as the interest-free period is coming to a close on one of my cards. There's only a small amount left to clear, but it makes sense to not be paying interest on top.
In other un-related news I have updated my CV and I'll hear back later this week about a potential job interview. The job is better-geared to my qualifications too. Whether this gives me leverage in my current position to point out that they're taking the p*ss (the other job is closer to home and a similar / higher salary) or if it's just time to move on. In 2010/11 I was on £25k plus comission (typically £600-800 per quarter) and it's taken me til 2014 to get back to a similar income but working much harder, further away and under much more stress! It's simply not sustainable despite the recent 14% (!) payrise.
I have taken on-board everything mentioned in here, from the sensible to the extreme. I'll be building a home office in the near future (haven't the space yet) so I can open up the opportunity to work from home or out of hours. It was the following which really stuck, despite others having said it more eloquently earlier in the thread this put everything into context :
Home ownership is now off the cards for the foreseeable.
Even if we can raise a 5% deposit to get a grasp of a 95% LTV mortgage our monthly outgoings will be significantly higher. Yes, rent prices have gone up locally, but I think the security of being able to chuck in the towel and move straight out if the sh*t hits the fan is probably better for us.
What has changed my opinion drastically over the last few days is seeing a friend of a friend who recently got involved in this 'help to buy' scheme for first-time buyers. Only he doesn't really own it. He owns a share in it which he is funding at quite high monthly repayments. They've recently had a baby and were told they couldn't decorate the bedroom they had intended for use as a nursery. We had more freedom in rented accomodation than that!
The plan now is to go back into rented accommodation, perhaps a bit further afield. We have accepted that a decent place could easily run to £850 PCM, but if we are strict with outgoings we can do it without slipping back into debt again.
Before moving out I want to have a 'contingency' fund of around £2k - way more than it needs to be, but if it's there we can dip into it and build it back up. Better than a credit card, I think.
Mrs is learning to drive and looking at passing in the next few weeks. Whilst this will bring in even more expense it does open up her work opportunities.
I'm transferring all of the debt to an interest-free credit card (0.5% transfer fee) as the interest-free period is coming to a close on one of my cards. There's only a small amount left to clear, but it makes sense to not be paying interest on top.
In other un-related news I have updated my CV and I'll hear back later this week about a potential job interview. The job is better-geared to my qualifications too. Whether this gives me leverage in my current position to point out that they're taking the p*ss (the other job is closer to home and a similar / higher salary) or if it's just time to move on. In 2010/11 I was on £25k plus comission (typically £600-800 per quarter) and it's taken me til 2014 to get back to a similar income but working much harder, further away and under much more stress! It's simply not sustainable despite the recent 14% (!) payrise.
I have taken on-board everything mentioned in here, from the sensible to the extreme. I'll be building a home office in the near future (haven't the space yet) so I can open up the opportunity to work from home or out of hours. It was the following which really stuck, despite others having said it more eloquently earlier in the thread this put everything into context :
Bertrum said:
Like others have said you need to change either:- Location, job or both
I'm working on it 
C.A.R. said:
What has changed my opinion drastically over the last few days is seeing a friend of a friend who recently got involved in this 'help to buy' scheme for first-time buyers. Only he doesn't really own it. He owns a share in it which he is funding at quite high monthly repayments. They've recently had a baby and were told they couldn't decorate the bedroom they had intended for use as a nursery. We had more freedom in rented accomodation than that!
Your friend is not using the 'Help to Buy' scheme, he is using 'Shared Ownership' where he mortgages a percentage of the property and pays rent for the rest to the housing association. The scheme is a con because he has both the negatives of ownership and renting all put together - he can't sell without permission, he can't redecorate without permission yet he pays rent but has to fund the upkeep of the property whereas traditional renting sees the upkeep fall on the landlord. The major con is that the full price of the property sale is entered into the land registry even though your friend only mortgaged a percentage. The purpose is to prop up the overinflated house prices which burden this country - well at least from the midlands and south. I know for some, it's the only way to get on the imaginary property ladder, but in reality it's only there to keep house prices out of reach for low earners.'Help to Buy' is for people who can only muster up 5% deposit, the taxpayer then underwrites a further 20% meaning the banks exposure is 75% of the property's price. Some would say that this is an indication that property is still 25% overvalued and the banks know it hence why 100%, 95%, 90%, 85%, 80% loan to values are only available to those with high earnings and squeaky clean credit history.
If only the Government (Labour, Tory and the rest) would stay out of the housing market then we might have far less dysfunctional housing system in this country.
Renting is not dead money, it's a roof over your head and gives you flexibility that those mortgaged to the hilt do not have. I know many who have told me that renting is dead money, yet £700+ per month in mortgage interest is perfectly acceptable to them? Very strange.
BTW, I was a tenant but now I'm an owner.
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Tuesday 17th June 12:36
okgo said:
So as long as advice is in helpful short soundbites, you'll listen to it? 
You were told on page one exactly what that chap said, a year ago.
I know right? It's taken a long time for the penny to drop.You were told on page one exactly what that chap said, a year ago.
However the housing thing has really only been in discussion for the last few pages - it wasn't even a consideration last year when the thread started.
The burden of debt will make a big difference when we move out again. We were repaying £60-100 on cards which were attracting interest - it was 1 step forwards 2 steps back.
Renting allows me to see where I am with money; there will be no surprise bills / repairs (car excluded) so any 'spare' money will be much easier to recognise so we can indulge in the ocasional meal or treat. Hopefully.
C.A.R. said:
Then there's shared ownership, which we hadn't really considered before. I'm struggling to work out the pro's and cons to this scheme and whether it is worthwhile pursuing it further. The deposit requirement is approximately half depending on the percentage of the shared ownership you go after (ie. 50-60%). The concern is that it is not possible to calculate what the HA will charge you in rent on the remaining value of the property. There's also a lot of scare stories online about shared ownership and my friend who works at a local law firm says he wouldn't recommend it unless we had no other option.
So..
Why don't you go down the 'Help to Buy' Scheme. Go and find a new house build estate and show some interest. Its a 20% Equity loan. That is interest free for 5 years. Its a complete no brainer. Some figures for you to digest:So..
£200,000 House
£10,0000 Your Deposit contribution (5%)
£2/3000 Fees and Stamp duty
£40,0000 Government Contribution
Monthly Mortgage at 3.34% is about £730 a month. That is an achievable rate on that size property.
The mortgage lender will essentially give you a mortgage based on a 25% deposit which means you will get a much better rate. Your 'affordability criteria' will be judged on the remaining balance after the 25% deposit has been taken off.
Repayment wise, You can only pay the equity loan off in a lump. Either in Whole or Half i believe. I would take advantage of this while you can - as long as you don't mind a new build!
ETA: I see you have mentioned your friend is on Help to buy and is 'renting' the house from the government. This is not correct. He is using Shared Ownership. Please do some research into the 'help to buy', the scheme is there for people like you and I cannot imagine its going to last much longer.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th June 11:44
yammyfan said:
Why don't you go down the 'Help to Buy' Scheme. Go and find a new house build estate and show some interest. Its a 20% Equity loan. That is interest free for 5 years. Its a complete no brainer. Some figures for you to digest:
£200,000 House
£10,0000 Your Deposit contribution (5%)
£2/3000 Fees and Stamp duty
£40,0000 Government Contribution
Monthly Mortgage at 3.34% is about £730 a month. That is an achievable rate on that size property.
The mortgage lender will essentially give you a mortgage based on a 25% deposit which means you will get a much better rate. Your 'affordability criteria' will be judged on the remaining balance after the 25% deposit has been taken off.
Repayment wise, You can only pay the equity loan off in a lump. Either in Whole or Half i believe. I would take advantage of this while you can - as long as you don't mind a new build!
ETA: I see you have mentioned your friend is on Help to buy and is 'renting' the house from the government. This is not correct. He is using Shared Ownership. Please do some research into the 'help to buy', the scheme is there for people like you and I cannot imagine its going to last much longer.
This bit seems to be the catch:£200,000 House
£10,0000 Your Deposit contribution (5%)
£2/3000 Fees and Stamp duty
£40,0000 Government Contribution
Monthly Mortgage at 3.34% is about £730 a month. That is an achievable rate on that size property.
The mortgage lender will essentially give you a mortgage based on a 25% deposit which means you will get a much better rate. Your 'affordability criteria' will be judged on the remaining balance after the 25% deposit has been taken off.
Repayment wise, You can only pay the equity loan off in a lump. Either in Whole or Half i believe. I would take advantage of this while you can - as long as you don't mind a new build!
ETA: I see you have mentioned your friend is on Help to buy and is 'renting' the house from the government. This is not correct. He is using Shared Ownership. Please do some research into the 'help to buy', the scheme is there for people like you and I cannot imagine its going to last much longer.
Edited by yammyfan on Thursday 19th June 11:44
Equity loan fees
You won’t be charged loan fees for the first 5 years of owning your home.
In the sixth year, you’ll be charged a fee of 1.75% of the loan’s value. After this, the fee will increase every year. The increase is worked out by using the Retail Prices Index plus 1%.
Your Help to Buy agent will contact you before the fees start, to set up monthly payments with your bank. You’ll also be sent a statement about your loan each year.
Fees don’t count towards paying back the equity loan.
https://www.gov.uk/affordable-home-ownership-schem...
So if you've got a monthly mortgage of 700 quid, just how will a sudden 1.75% fee figure on top of that? If I've thought this through correctly, one would see their monthly housing outgoings climb to over 1000 quid per month? Or is this fee per year which can be paid monthly?
Also, I'd imagine interest rates will be higher than 0.5% in 6 years time, but then again they may not be.
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Thursday 19th June 13:16
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