Alternative to BTL. I've had enough
Discussion
drainbrain said:
FocusRS3 said:
Steelnads said:
I am now 50 and have been a professional property dealer and landlord for 27 years. Over the last few years I have been selling up. It is completely different to even 10 years ago.... much higher risk of non paying tennants and too much choice on my patch. A particular house that I sold recently (first viewing full asking price) would always be let immediately and the tennants would stay 4 or 5 years plus... showed 40 plus people over 8 months and all were unacceptable. The house was immaculate with new carpets etc. In my view you now get crap returns and the good years of BTL are long gone for me.... still got a few left but these will be dumped if I get a wiff of agro from them.
And there talks a man With actual experience and sense .I have been thinking for a while that the BTL mkt is saturated as I've thought about buying two flats to rent then eventually hand over to my kids .
The more I read about non paying tenants and the competition just to get a property rented out the more i think the bubble has truly burst .
Steelnads has said something confusing. He's a property dealer who's just got a fast turnaround on a sale at full asking. Why get out of the market if you can operate competently in it? Why not just continue a successful process? One of the ways the market hasn't changed is that dealers like a fast turnaround at full asking esp. to the first viewer and have since the first ever sale and will till the last one.
The rest is confusing too. The market's changed? Really? Is there a market that hasn't? The very nature of the market- any market- is that it's ever changing.
And whilst in a sense the more everything changes the more it stays the same, in many details it's not the case and it does change. True, the letting market's changed over the last 10 years. Even more so over the last 20, 30 and 50 years. BUT from a business perspective change has to be answered by adaptation. Market change isn't a 'risk' it's a certainty. And it offers but 3 choices. Adapt to the changes and move on; or refuse or fail to adapt to the changes and go under; or leave the industry. But there's no point in saying you're leaving because things have changed. In that case there was no point ever getting into it. You leave because you can't be assed adapting to the changes you perceive.
Am I wrong?
FocusRS3 said:
The point made is that everyone's a landlord these days so competition has Made it difficult to rent out property and that very few tend to stay for long periods of time which used to be the case. So when you consider that potentially every 18 months a flat sits empty for and average of 3 months awaiting a new tennant that's a decent part of that return gone over that period
Yes there are far more landlords than 20 years ago. This itself changes the market, and often to the benefit of the punter. Longevity of tenancy isn't reducing because of volume of landlords. Similarly the number of properties for sale doesn't mean people buy them and move less or more often. Length of voids similarly doesn't link directly to volume either. These are merely changes (not sure about voids, tho) to which landlords must adapt. In my recently sold agency, 2 weeks void would include the property in the weekly 'crisis' meeting. Why has it not been taken? ESPECIALLY why has it not be taken if it's been viewed. One of the posters above said he'd had FORTY viewers over 8 months but nobody acceptable???? That scenario isn't really possible.
Because there's a pre-viewing screening (on the phone or even via email) to ascertain the punter's likely suitability. So MOST viewings are to ascertain the property's suitability for the punter. So if you've got 40 people who're potentially suitable for the property and no takers, something's wrong. (and, by the way, if you've arranged 40 attended viewings and no-one suitable's turned up then there's something seriously wrong with your pre-viewing screening).
The residential (tho not nearly so much the commercial) letting industry's changed massively over the near 5 decades I've been involved as both tenant and landlord. And it is 100% finished for the 'old school' esp. lower end landlords of the 1960's. Those involved back then who're still involved to day have been forced to adapt to survive. That's not going to stop. And I can't imagine there are many other industries about which exactly the same couldn't be said.
It'll be market saturated ONLY when supply exceeds demand. And even then adaptation will ensure successful survival.
One rider though. The "uk property market" is often mentioned. In fact there's no such thing. In reality it's a huge conglomeration of micro-markets. So generalisations like mine can throw up many exceptions. So there probably ARE market-saturated areas. But it's certainly not the case everywhere. Not even close.
drainbrain said:
So if you've got 40 people who're potentially suitable for the property and no takers, something's wrong. (and, by the way, if you've arranged 40 attended viewings and no-one suitable's turned up then there's something seriously wrong with your pre-viewing screening).
Have to agree - over last 15yrs my handful of properties have never had a day's void and are gone by the 2nd or 3d viewing. The only time this wasn't the case was when I used an online House agency and it wasnt Simple. Absolute disaster. 6 viewings and no offers - not even a question. Which prospective tenant doesn't have a question!? Kicked them into touch (but still had to pay them £500) and a high st agent rented it the next day and took over 2k off me and hundreds off the tenants too! They have been model tenants - the bloke enjoys fixing the place up and I have to force money onto him for his costs and time! I still consider the high street agents (well OK this big name London one) extremely expensive (agency takes a cut on renewal too - OUCH
) but at least they were professional and effective... So make sure you are 'doing it right' with these viewings...rustyuk said:
We have recently sold our house and moved into rented which was a struggle. Everything we tried to view had a waiting list!
On the flip side everything we are trying to buy has had several offers too! Market hasn't cooled if priced right and location is good.
Interesting point . I think the mkt above 1.5mln has definitely cooled due to stamp costs and certainly local to me a good few are trying to get out of working in London and downscale . The price bracket of 700-1mln is very boyant and everything gets snapped up so there. On the flip side everything we are trying to buy has had several offers too! Market hasn't cooled if priced right and location is good.
Lots depends on your situation I suppose and priorities . Mine right now are school fees and lots of them !
PS is still consider a local BTL but i appreciate I'd have to price it aggressively to get it rented quickly
drainbrain said:
I bet your agency grew out of managing your own portfolio. Am I right? (As opposed to a bloke who decided to open a letting agency).
No, grew out of a 'normal' agency dealing with lots of investors who were always complaining about the service they got from letting agents. Thought I could do better and expanded the business accordingly.Please can any expects enlighten me and tell me why I've had no offers and 15 viewings on my BTL property that I'm selling? Been on since 6th October and already reduced it once. But if you compare other similar properties online between £130-150k within a 1/2 mile radius mine looks a bargain and definitely has the best bathroom by a mile! Chain free as well! What the heck do people want? It's immaculate.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Edited by Prohibiting on Monday 7th November 11:03
Green bin in front - do photographers have NO eye for detail/presentation? Would have taken 5" to move it!
No central heating would be a downer - other than that looks quite tidy. Do you have faith in those doing the viewing? Are they just rushing it as their commission may be small? The area will be obvious to most prior to a viewing after all...
No central heating would be a downer - other than that looks quite tidy. Do you have faith in those doing the viewing? Are they just rushing it as their commission may be small? The area will be obvious to most prior to a viewing after all...
Prohibiting said:
Please can any expects enlighten me and tell me why I've had no offers and 15 viewings on my BTL property that I'm selling? Been on since 6th October and already reduced it once. But if you compare other similar properties online between £130-150k within a 1/2 mile radius mine looks a bargain and definitely has the best bathroom by a mile! Chain free as well! What the heck do people want? It's immaculate.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
In a soft market sometimes rather than reducing the price it can work first to offer the agent a big fee bounty for getting it sold. This can work because it makes your property their number one priority to get sold rather than taking your potential buyers and steering them to cheaper properties to get their comm in ASAP. The agent's first solution is to get you to take a £10k+ hit to help them be more keen to favour yours over the others when offering them a £2k+ bounty can achieve the exact same effect but obviously hardly cost you anything. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Edited by Prohibiting on Monday 7th November 11:03
Ozzie Osmond said:
IMO with those cookie-cutter properties it's always the cheapest one that will sell first.
Lack of central heating may also be an issue. Would you get your money back if you had a little gas system installed?
I doubt it. Only a couple of people have commented about the lack of central heating. A lot of these little 2 bed houses don't have central heating. It would cost about £2k to install and I doubt it would sell for an extra £3k to make it worthwhile doing.Lack of central heating may also be an issue. Would you get your money back if you had a little gas system installed?
On the whole I'm just pretty disappointed that it hasn't sold yet. I'm starting to get very twitchy considering I spent £5.5k making it immaculate.
A few agents said that a tidy 2-bed house priced correctly should fly off the market!
DonkeyApple said:
it can work first to offer the agent a big fee bounty for getting it sold.
Agreed, although when the property is only £130k there's not much difference between a "big fee bounty" and a "significant price reduction"! Which reminds us why agents in the sunny South East make sooo much money and why Stamp Duty is primarily a tax on living in London and the South East....Prohibiting said:
If it was on at £140-145k then yeah, I'd accept that it's a little high but with a guide price of £138k, I'd happily accept £137k to be done with it! That's flipping good value if you ask me when comparing it to others.
Plus mine is chain free for crying out loud
If yours is genuinely in line with your competitors' properties in price, size, condition, location then the best way to outcompete them is to buy their sales team. I.e. The agents will sell what will make them the most money most quickly. All things being equal that just means you need to offer them more money and that way they'll pretty much focus all efforts on shifting your stock to the detriment of your competitors. Plus mine is chain free for crying out loud
Prohibiting said:
Please can any expects enlighten me and tell me why I've had no offers and 15 viewings on my BTL property that I'm selling? Been on since 6th October and already reduced it once. But if you compare other similar properties online between £130-150k within a 1/2 mile radius mine looks a bargain and definitely has the best bathroom by a mile! Chain free as well! What the heck do people want? It's immaculate.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Please dont take offense to this but the kitchen already looks 15-20 years old with those tiles and those pine worktops. Have you just shortcut the kitchen with new door fronts? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Feedback is location which I physically can't change and lack of driveway for some viewers but it's all been priced accordingly for that!
I'm really getting annoyed....
Edited by Prohibiting on Monday 7th November 11:03
The location of the gas fire would annoy me also
But the biggest downfall is the lack of central heating, and the EPC is very low.
Im not a fan of upvc porches either.
Very nice bathroom though and the street looks fine, whats wrong with the area?
Edited by dazwalsh on Tuesday 8th November 22:01
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