Retirement funded by BTL - Reality after 1 year.

[trickywoo]

Op - if you can talk the way you type you should be on the get rich seminar circuit.

It would bring you more money than your properties and a more adoring audience than you'll find on here.

[emicen]

Just for a change of pace;
- Rutherglen is splitting hairs, yes I know it's North Lanarkshire not Glasgow City, but come on now
- Motherwell is certainly not Glasgow, at double the size of Staines it's hardly unrecognisable
- I don't know much about London garages at £50k, but Glasgow suburb garages can quite easily do £100pcm on £10k purchase

[drainbrain]

Hey I just got offered a job!! So did my ex-partner from the taxis!! By the guy who's bought the taxi business from us who owns a number of taxi businesses. The ex-partner's now the CEO of another and even bigger firm and I've been asked to join him if I want!

But the missus says no And tbh I'd like to leave it for 6 months. But hey! Nice to know that not everyone thinks you're a clueless old ass.

We can also buy it if we like. But we've only got part of the dough. So we'd need a 3rd investment partner. A sleeper. It's been established for many many years. It's got 380 cars. 200 are owned by the firm. Weighin's £120 a week. And a car's £165 to rent. So there's about £75k a week flowing in potentially which experience tells me means £65k in reality. VAT's funny in taxis but I'd guess at £120k a quarter or £10k+/- a week. Running costs are +/- £15k a week. And we'd like to pay our potential sleeping partner £6k a week. £312kpa.

We've got a shedload of expert financial strategists and skilled risk assessors on this forum. Or have we? Because I'd like their opinion on what it would be worth investing for a £312kpa completely hands off income plus of course 33% interest in the business itself. So give me those expert opinions, guys.

Just remember I am a talentless and worthless financial dummy BUT I am seriously serially lucky in businesses and have been for many years. And I'm being offered a job by a really very wealthy self made man who seems confident that I can be lucky once again. Because I'm stupid the only risk I can see the investor runs is that the business gets run into failure and his stake becomes worthless. Given me and ex-honcho built a taxi firm from zero to 300 drivers in 9 years I'd say in the balance of probability it's not likely we'd make a fist of this one.

[drainbrain]

emicen said:

Just for a change of pace;
- Rutherglen is splitting hairs, yes I know it's North Lanarkshire not Glasgow City, but come on now
- Motherwell is certainly not Glasgow, at double the size of Staines it's hardly unrecognisable
- I don't know much about London garages at £50k, but Glasgow suburb garages can quite easily do £100pcm on £10k purchase

OI!! You stupid ignoramus!! You haven't the first clue about ANYTHING do you??? You're so stupid I wonder how you manage to dress yourself!! And I'm an expert in stupid so I know stupid when I see it….'ll! (Sorry, just slipped on my PH financial expert hat for a sec. )

But seriously, my brother and fellow weegie….Rutherglen in North Lanarkshire?? Not last time I looked. Try South Lanarks. M'well's in NL.

Yeah those wee garages are ok. We sold a few as agents not long ago and they rent very well especially to punters whose newish-build houses have attached garages that can't squeeze a big motorbike into them. Do for stores too, and £100 is on the money as is £10k purchase.

[drainbrain]

trickywoo said:

Op - if you can talk the way you type you should be on the get rich seminar circuit.

It would bring you more money than your properties and a more adoring audience than you'll find on here.

Roll up! Roll up!! Get your Herbalife here!! Become a distributor and leave those pension worries behind!!

Or…. Become a real international property player!! By just following these few simple steps you too could make a bigger fortune from property than Ajay Ahuja and the Duke of Westminster combined!! And remember we've always got sourced bargains available for you!! All you need is a credit card for the 10% deposit plus our reasonable 3 grand sourcing fee and our offshore lending partner The Bank of Nigeria will see you good for the balance. Plus our expert letting team- albeit based in Romania - will handle the rest. The only thing you'll ever need to do is spend the guaranteed rent proceeds which will get sent directly to your bank. Millionaire in no time!! Just give Mr O'Konta here your credit card and account details and he'll have you up and running before you get home!!

How does that sound?

Or what about this..

Worried about retirement?? Don't be. Just give us the entire proceeds of your pension pot. We'll invest it and reinvest it compounding our gain over the years and we'll pay you a non-compounded rate of a fraction of our investment returns till you die. Then we'll steal…erm, sorry, I mean keep the pot we hugely benefit from investing and your survivors can be comforted by the fact that we at least will continue to live in luxury even if they regrettably sink into irreversible poverty. We call it the " Trickywoo Retirement Annuity Purchase" or TRAP for short.

Personally I like the last one. So who do we grease for a permit to start?

[WindyCommon]

drainbrain said:

So there's about £75k a week flowing in potentially which experience tells me means £65k in reality. VAT's funny in taxis but I'd guess at £120k a quarter or £10k+/- a week. Running costs are +/- £15k a week. And we'd like to pay our potential sleeping partner £6k a week. £312kpa.

We've got a shedload of expert financial strategists and skilled risk assessors on this forum. Or have we? Because I'd like their opinion on what it would be worth investing for a £312kpa completely hands off income plus of course 33% interest in the business itself. So give me those expert opinions, guys.

Sure. Here you go:

Applying Uber's estimated revenue multiple of 15x, the equity is worth approx £51m so £17m for 33%.
The loan structure (viewing the £312k pa as interest at [say]10.4%pa) adds another £3m

So £20m.

[sidicks]

drainbrain said:

Worried about retirement?? Don't be. Just give us the entire proceeds of your pension pot. We'll invest it and reinvest it compounding our gain over the years and we'll pay you a non-compounded rate of a fraction of our investment returns till you die. Then we'll steal…erm, sorry, I mean keep the pot we hugely benefit from investing and your survivors can be comforted by the fact that we at least will continue to live in luxury even if they regrettably sink into irreversible poverty.

Repeating the sane nonsense doesn't change the fact that it's still nonsense.

As before, suggest you stick to the stuff you understand, rather than that which you demonstrably don't.

[Zoon]

drainbrain said:

Hey I just got offered a job!! So did my ex-partner from the taxis!! By the guy who's bought the taxi business from us who owns a number of taxi businesses. The ex-partner's now the CEO of another and even bigger firm and I've been asked to join him if I want!

But the missus says no And tbh I'd like to leave it for 6 months. But hey! Nice to know that not everyone thinks you're a clueless old ass.

We can also buy it if we like. But we've only got part of the dough. So we'd need a 3rd investment partner. A sleeper. It's been established for many many years. It's got 380 cars. 200 are owned by the firm. Weighin's £120 a week. And a car's £165 to rent. So there's about £75k a week flowing in potentially which experience tells me means £65k in reality. VAT's funny in taxis but I'd guess at £120k a quarter or £10k+/- a week. Running costs are +/- £15k a week. And we'd like to pay our potential sleeping partner £6k a week. £312kpa.

We've got a shedload of expert financial strategists and skilled risk assessors on this forum. Or have we? Because I'd like their opinion on what it would be worth investing for a £312kpa completely hands off income plus of course 33% interest in the business itself. So give me those expert opinions, guys.

Just remember I am a talentless and worthless financial dummy BUT I am seriously serially lucky in businesses and have been for many years. And I'm being offered a job by a really very wealthy self made man who seems confident that I can be lucky once again. Because I'm stupid the only risk I can see the investor runs is that the business gets run into failure and his stake becomes worthless. Given me and ex-honcho built a taxi firm from zero to 300 drivers in 9 years I'd say in the balance of probability it's not likely we'd make a fist of this one.

So have you been offered a job or has someone offered you a failing business for sale?
If it's doing so well why would anyone want to sell it?
Also why get a third investor? Buy it from the guy and pay him from the profits that you'd give to the third investor and yourself. After all you don't need a wage as the BTL's are taking care of that.

[DonkeyApple]

drainbrain said:

Hey I just got offered a job!! So did my ex-partner from the taxis!! By the guy who's bought the taxi business from us who owns a number of taxi businesses. The ex-partner's now the CEO of another and even bigger firm and I've been asked to join him if I want!

But the missus says no And tbh I'd like to leave it for 6 months. But hey! Nice to know that not everyone thinks you're a clueless old ass.

We can also buy it if we like. But we've only got part of the dough. So we'd need a 3rd investment partner. A sleeper. It's been established for many many years. It's got 380 cars. 200 are owned by the firm. Weighin's £120 a week. And a car's £165 to rent. So there's about £75k a week flowing in potentially which experience tells me means £65k in reality. VAT's funny in taxis but I'd guess at £120k a quarter or £10k+/- a week. Running costs are +/- £15k a week. And we'd like to pay our potential sleeping partner £6k a week. £312kpa.

We've got a shedload of expert financial strategists and skilled risk assessors on this forum. Or have we? Because I'd like their opinion on what it would be worth investing for a £312kpa completely hands off income plus of course 33% interest in the business itself. So give me those expert opinions, guys.

Just remember I am a talentless and worthless financial dummy BUT I am seriously serially lucky in businesses and have been for many years. And I'm being offered a job by a really very wealthy self made man who seems confident that I can be lucky once again. Because I'm stupid the only risk I can see the investor runs is that the business gets run into failure and his stake becomes worthless. Given me and ex-honcho built a taxi firm from zero to 300 drivers in 9 years I'd say in the balance of probability it's not likely we'd make a fist of this one.

You are 63 years old and this insecure? Groak, seriously, starting this thread trying to out of the blue convince strangers on the internet that you are good at what you do and then it slowly descends to repeated posts shouting about your brilliance in the face of imaginary people who are telling you you're a failure?

No one has said that you are stupid but I suspect people are beginning to think that you're not well.

[drainbrain]

WindyCommon said:

Sure. Here you go:

Applying Uber's estimated revenue multiple of 15x, the equity is worth approx £51m so £17m for 33%.
The loan structure (viewing the £312k pa as interest at [say]10.4%pa) adds another £3m

So £20m.

Hmmmm, close…….in the same way that New Zealand is close to The Orkneys….

I like Uber. I've even found a song for their ads. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoD_8qDU4Jw

[drainbrain]

Zoon said:

So have you been offered a job or has someone offered you a failing business for sale?
If it's doing so well why would anyone want to sell it?
Also why get a third investor? Buy it from the guy and pay him from the profits that you'd give to the third investor and yourself. After all you don't need a wage as the BTL's are taking care of that.

Nope it's a real good'un. The seller buys and sells so no doubt he wants some funds for something else and he owns many Scottish taxi firms including most of the private hire firms in Edinburgh. Needs investor because he doesn't do 'pay-ups' and we don't have the asking.

[NickCQ]

WindyCommon said:

drainbrain said:

So there's about £75k a week flowing in potentially which experience tells me means £65k in reality. VAT's funny in taxis but I'd guess at £120k a quarter or £10k+/- a week. Running costs are +/- £15k a week. And we'd like to pay our potential sleeping partner £6k a week. £312kpa.

We've got a shedload of expert financial strategists and skilled risk assessors on this forum. Or have we? Because I'd like their opinion on what it would be worth investing for a £312kpa completely hands off income plus of course 33% interest in the business itself. So give me those expert opinions, guys.

Sure. Here you go:

Applying Uber's estimated revenue multiple of 15x, the equity is worth approx £51m so £17m for 33%.
The loan structure (viewing the £312k pa as interest at [say]10.4%pa) adds another £3m

So £20m.

Uber's a bad comp, venture capital valuations are crazy. I'd look at this business as a sum-of-the-parts, so:
200 vehicles at whatever, £5-10k; plus
the profit stream from 380 drivers, seems to about £2.5k pa per driver on a net basis

Correct multiple for the driver earnings seems to be about 5-6x based on the Carlye / Addison Lee transaction (2013), so I get £8 mm for the whole business, 12.5% initial cashflow yield (but declining over time as the vehicles depreciate).

I just think it's a dying business - you are fked as soon as any of the big guys (Uber, Lyft etc) come into your area. Plus the regulatory risk if you have to pay drivers minimum wage / they can't be self-employed etc.

[drainbrain]

DonkeyApple said:

You are 63 years old and this insecure? Groak, seriously, starting this thread trying to out of the blue convince strangers on the internet that you are good at what you do and then it slowly descends to repeated posts shouting about your brilliance in the face of imaginary people who are telling you you're a failure?

No one has said that you are stupid but I suspect people are beginning to think that you're not well.

Well what a nice post!! Take it there wasn't good news in the morning mail.

Why do you financial gurus take such a hump at people illustrating that BTL is a perfectly good way to fund retirement and in fact may be a far better way to fund it than any financial instrument can provide?

Because as you know, I hope, nothing I've said aims to convince anyone I'm especially good never mind brilliant at anything. What I AM is perfectly capable of creating and organising successful (because they are profitable) businesses. Indeed what is illustrated is how something fairly easy and ordinarily successful can provide a reasonably comfortable perpetual income for people who may find their options dissatisfying and difficult to manage.

I've told you that I've got a few dozen rented properties in an unburdened portfolio. And also that I have recently sold a 300 car taxi business I built up with another. I am surprised that you confuse this with some idea that in my opinion this makes me something of a brilliant success. Clearly we have a different standard of 'brilliance' and 'success'.

So you don't remain confused, here is what I certainly would call a brilliant success in the world of property:

www.lrp.co.uk

THAT is outstanding success.

To further clarify my opinion of outstanding success in the private hire trade click here:

www.addisonlee.com

Now THAT is brilliant.

I'm afraid YOUR understanding of it - if you think I'm brilliantly successful or even think myself to be brilliantly successful- falls a measure or two shorter.

Now retired I am destined never to achieve outstanding success, tho in days gone by I've kissed its coat-tails. But what I have 'achieved' is the ability to generate a retirement income from BTL.

You and others here - though not by any means all contributors- are fond of emphasising how others lack some sophisticated understanding without which even managing their own affairs is a dead duck. Well, may this thread be of some comfort to them.

And as to you and your fellow idiot savants, here's the lesson next time BTL funding retirement arises as a topic. Yes of course it can be a way to fund retirement. And no it doesn't have to be part of a diversified portfolio of investment. I am living proof of it. More difficult for you to accept, though, is that even a person who is variously described as "only lucky", "financially inept ignorant and naive" and now "insecure" and even possibly "Ill" (I take it you mean mentally) can fund a reasonable retirement with btl. Hardly bears thinking what experts like yourselves could achieve if an inadequate like me can do it!

Addison Lee and LRP beware! Some of the true giants of finance are hot on your tail!

As if.

[FredClogs]

Dude, you're not addressing what people are saying, which is, "you've not retired!"

[drainbrain]

NickCQ said:

Uber's a bad comp, venture capital valuations are crazy. I'd look at this business as a sum-of-the-parts, so:
200 vehicles at whatever, £5-10k; plus
the profit stream from 380 drivers, seems to about £2.5k pa per driver on a net basis

Correct multiple for the driver earnings seems to be about 5-6x based on the Carlye / Addison Lee transaction (2013), so I get £8 mm for the whole business, 12.5% initial cashflow yield (but declining over time as the vehicles depreciate).

I just think it's a dying business - you are fked as soon as any of the big guys (Uber, Lyft etc) come into your area. Plus the regulatory risk if you have to pay drivers minimum wage / they can't be self-employed etc.

Nick, there is good news and not so good news.

1) Using your assessment you are only a PM away from being able to grab yourself a great bargain. Seriously.

2) Hate to sound like the forum know-alls, but your last para doesn't illustrate much understanding of oobah-boobah and its relationship with the private hire trade.

Uber have been here for some time now. And everyone's got an app. these days. The yank battle approach fell a bit embarrassingly on its ass. It has now accepted that it's a training station for drivers who move on to well organised local ph firms. It is also useful in getting the local council to adapt its licensing applications to technological changes. It does not entirely enjoy being a training station and has now begun to accept that to survive meaningfully it has to find it's niche alongside some pretty nifty priv.hire firms and the hacks (with whom it more directly competes). As they chill more uber'll find it gets better for them and they're already aware of this and are settling down quite nicely into the general atmosphere of co-operation that makes for such good business.

The big changes in the industry will be to driverless and electric vehicles. The adaptations are already beginning.

[Zoon]

drainbrain said:

And also that I have recently sold a 300 car taxi business I built up with another.

So you had 80 less taxis than a business that is making a million a year profit?
How much did you get for it?
I'd wager you'd be making more from the interest of the business sale than you would from BTL. Or should be.

[drainbrain]

FredClogs said:

Dude, you're not addressing what people are saying, which is, "you've not retired!"

If I wasn't retired what on earth do you think I'd be doing on here at this time? What do you think I am? Some lowlife who sits talking crap on the internet when I should be working? Or running some dead business with nothing more interesting to do?

Come now.

By the way, I think I've found Sidicks alter ego. His wife thinks he's off to work selling pensions. And his boss thinks he's tapping away on the computer compiling sales scripts. But yet, in reality, here he is…...


https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=...

I spent some quality time with Jerry in the early '80's. What a nice guy he is. Never forgotten! (and a very seriously good magician too)

Edited by drainbrain on Friday 28th October 11:48

[richardxjr]

Is that 300 car taxi business that you sold the same one that you are trying to buy back?

Still not quite sure whether you are here to
a) tell us all how we can retire as BTLers, even though you haven't retired.
b) find some greedy mug punter to buy back your taxi business for you
c) resurrect an online fantasy that was temporarily halted by stupid bankers?

[drainbrain]

Zoon said:

So you had 80 less taxis than a business that is making a million a year profit?
How much did you get for it?
I'd wager you'd be making more from the interest of the business sale than you would from BTL. Or should be.

Now THERE's a story!!!! It's a good'un too (don't worry Mr Donkey it's not THAT good). But we need the investor to fill in the bit between what we sold and what we're (maybe) buying, i.e. 80 drivers + 200 cars + a premises + better goodwill.

[DonkeyApple]

drainbrain said:

DonkeyApple said:

You are 63 years old and this insecure? Groak, seriously, starting this thread trying to out of the blue convince strangers on the internet that you are good at what you do and then it slowly descends to repeated posts shouting about your brilliance in the face of imaginary people who are telling you you're a failure?

No one has said that you are stupid but I suspect people are beginning to think that you're not well.

Well what a nice post!! Take it there wasn't good news in the morning mail.

Why do you financial gurus take such a hump at people illustrating that BTL is a perfectly good way to fund retirement and in fact may be a far better way to fund it than any financial instrument can provide?

Because as you know, I hope, nothing I've said aims to convince anyone I'm especially good never mind brilliant at anything. What I AM is perfectly capable of creating and organising successful (because they are profitable) businesses. Indeed what is illustrated is how something fairly easy and ordinarily successful can provide a reasonably comfortable perpetual income for people who may find their options dissatisfying and difficult to manage.

I've told you that I've got a few dozen rented properties in an unburdened portfolio. And also that I have recently sold a 300 car taxi business I built up with another. I am surprised that you confuse this with some idea that in my opinion this makes me something of a brilliant success. Clearly we have a different standard of 'brilliance' and 'success'.

So you don't remain confused, here is what I certainly would call a brilliant success in the world of property:

www.lrp.co.uk

THAT is outstanding success.

To further clarify my opinion of outstanding success in the private hire trade click here:

www.addisonlee.com

Now THAT is brilliant.

I'm afraid YOUR understanding of it - if you think I'm brilliantly successful or even think myself to be brilliantly successful- falls a measure or two shorter.

Now retired I am destined never to achieve outstanding success, tho in days gone by I've kissed its coat-tails. But what I have 'achieved' is the ability to generate a retirement income from BTL.

You and others here - though not by any means all contributors- are fond of emphasising how others lack some sophisticated understanding without which even managing their own affairs is a dead duck. Well, may this thread be of some comfort to them.

And as to you and your fellow idiot savants, here's the lesson next time BTL funding retirement arises as a topic. Yes of course it can be a way to fund retirement. And no it doesn't have to be part of a diversified portfolio of investment. I am living proof of it. More difficult for you to accept, though, is that even a person who is variously described as "only lucky", "financially inept ignorant and naive" and now "insecure" and even possibly "Ill" (I take it you mean mentally) can fund a reasonable retirement with btl. Hardly bears thinking what experts like yourselves could achieve if an inadequate like me can do it!

Addison Lee and LRP beware! Some of the true giants of finance are hot on your tail!

As if.

You're just proving the point. Your issue with 'financial gurus' is exactly that, your personal issue.