Meet the Fokkers
Discussion
Is it only me ?
Only me that find it depressing and is quite frankly baffled ?
Only me that finds a complete lack of empathy by some of the guys on the finance forum,for the nurses,the refuse collectors,the bus drivers , the oap's living on a fixed income, and so many others that work in low paid unskilled or semi skilled jobs,but jobs that are vital for the benefit of our communities and society as a whole.
Are they jerking my chain,wind up merchants....what do you think ?
For 8 years now we've felt the effects of the banking crisis,the decrease in pension annuities,the very low returns on bank saving accounts,the inflation in housing prices and rents, in London especially,zero rate contracts that might suit some but a fair proportion want the security of a "proper" job.
Why do they refuse to grasp the fact that many average Joes are not financially savvy and even if they do have a grasp of the basics don't really want to involve themselves in the stock market or BTLs,both a popular way of increasing ones wealth,at present.
Why do they not see that the gap is widening between the haves and the others,or they do see and don't care,and that this cannot be good in the future for our society.
I know that some people are doing ok,and that others take advantage of our benefit system,that's a given but there are a fair few others that are struggling.
Only me that find it depressing and is quite frankly baffled ?
Only me that finds a complete lack of empathy by some of the guys on the finance forum,for the nurses,the refuse collectors,the bus drivers , the oap's living on a fixed income, and so many others that work in low paid unskilled or semi skilled jobs,but jobs that are vital for the benefit of our communities and society as a whole.
Are they jerking my chain,wind up merchants....what do you think ?
For 8 years now we've felt the effects of the banking crisis,the decrease in pension annuities,the very low returns on bank saving accounts,the inflation in housing prices and rents, in London especially,zero rate contracts that might suit some but a fair proportion want the security of a "proper" job.
Why do they refuse to grasp the fact that many average Joes are not financially savvy and even if they do have a grasp of the basics don't really want to involve themselves in the stock market or BTLs,both a popular way of increasing ones wealth,at present.
Why do they not see that the gap is widening between the haves and the others,or they do see and don't care,and that this cannot be good in the future for our society.
I know that some people are doing ok,and that others take advantage of our benefit system,that's a given but there are a fair few others that are struggling.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 12th August 19:42
sidicks said:
avinalarf said:
Is it only me ?
Only me that find it depressing and is quite frankly baffled ?
Only me that finds a complete lack of empathy by some of the guys on the finance forum,for the nurses,the refuse collectors,the bus drivers , the oap's living on a fixed income, and so many others that work in low paid unskilled or semi skilled jobs,but jobs that are vital for the benefit of our communities and society as a whole.
Please provide a link to posts showing a lack of empathy.Only me that find it depressing and is quite frankly baffled ?
Only me that finds a complete lack of empathy by some of the guys on the finance forum,for the nurses,the refuse collectors,the bus drivers , the oap's living on a fixed income, and so many others that work in low paid unskilled or semi skilled jobs,but jobs that are vital for the benefit of our communities and society as a whole.
avinalarf said:
For 8 years now we've felt the effects of the banking crisis,the decrease in pension annuities,the very low returns on bank saving accounts,the inflation in housing prices and rents, in London especially,zero rate contracts that might suit some but a fair proportion want the security of a "proper" job.
Why do they refuse to grasp the fact that many average Joes are not financially savvy and even if they do have a grasp of the basics don't really want to involve themselves in the stock market or BTLs,both a popular way of increasing ones wealth,at present.
If you don't understand something then you should pay for expert help from someone who does!Why do they refuse to grasp the fact that many average Joes are not financially savvy and even if they do have a grasp of the basics don't really want to involve themselves in the stock market or BTLs,both a popular way of increasing ones wealth,at present.
avinalarf said:
Why do they not see that the gap is widening between the haves and the others,or they do see and don't care,and that this cannot be good in the future for our society.
I know that some people are doing ok,and that others take advantage of our benefit system,that's a given but there are a fair few others that are struggling.
Equality of opportunity is the important thing, NOT equality of outcome.I know that some people are doing ok,and that others take advantage of our benefit system,that's a given but there are a fair few others that are struggling.
sidicks said:
avinalarf said:
Never mind.
Sidicks,I respect your wealth of knowledge .but I am really looking for some more feedback before I commence battle.
Thanks for your interest.
sidicks said:
avinalarf said:
I could have said the same after reading your post.
Please explain?avinalarf said:
Sidicks,I respect your wealth of knowledge .but I am really looking for some more feedback before I commence battle.
Thanks for your interest.
More feedback?Thanks for your interest.
You've made lots of accusations about what 'they' think without saying who 'they' are or what 'they've' said.
What 'feedback' are you expecting?
I find it difficult to debate with you.
You cherry pick a word or a sentence in my presentation without really addressing the thrust of my argument.
We appear not to live on the same planet.
Not saying you are wrong and I am right ,just that we have such different perspectives on matters that it's possibly less grief that we agree to disagree.
For example....
do you really expect your average Joe to say to himself ....
" I'm not sure what to do with my £25K pension pot ,oh I know I'll ,take my 25% drawdown,that's circa £6,250 and invest it.....mmmmm........I'm not sure in what.
Let me think.... Nope still not sure.....I' d better phone up St James place and ask an IFA to pop over ".
king glake". by Spudddd July ...
With reference to the comments by sidicks and other general comments on the Topic I posted.
I am going to have a look at my initial post and reconsider whether it reflects what I was attempting to say.
I'm not sure it does.
Bear with me as I'm at work,so it'll probably be tommorow before I can get my head around it.
I am going to have a look at my initial post and reconsider whether it reflects what I was attempting to say.
I'm not sure it does.
Bear with me as I'm at work,so it'll probably be tommorow before I can get my head around it.
Drainbrain.....
Read you last post....most of which I agree with.Thats the long one addressed to me.
I note,and I say this with deep love and affection,that like me you do have a tendency to waffle on a bit and go off on seemingly unrelated tangents.
That's the way our minds work and it appears difficult for others to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
To all of you other guys....
In retrospect.....
I should have made the raison d'etre of my topic more concise.
I should not have alluded to knowing the minds of others and whether or not they were empathetic,this was presumptious and ,led the topic into other terroritory.
Read you last post....most of which I agree with.Thats the long one addressed to me.
I note,and I say this with deep love and affection,that like me you do have a tendency to waffle on a bit and go off on seemingly unrelated tangents.
That's the way our minds work and it appears difficult for others to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
To all of you other guys....
In retrospect.....
I should have made the raison d'etre of my topic more concise.
I should not have alluded to knowing the minds of others and whether or not they were empathetic,this was presumptious and ,led the topic into other terroritory.
Edited by avinalarf on Sunday 14th August 14:05
sidicks said:
avinalarf said:
Sunday Times....
Business.....page 4.......bottom left hand corner......article by Andrew Haldane.
Please tell me how the thrust of my original post differs wildly from this article ?
Can you provide a link or scan to the article you are referring to?Business.....page 4.......bottom left hand corner......article by Andrew Haldane.
Please tell me how the thrust of my original post differs wildly from this article ?
Does the Sunday Times article refer to a lack of empathy from 'some guys on the PH Finance forum' ?
I've got the newspaper so unless I can stuff it down my iPad and up your jacksy I can't help you.
Sidicks,I'll give you the £2.50 next time we have a drink together,got out and buy one.
That last sentence of yours .....was that a funny ?
Impossible for me to tell when you're serious or avinalarf.
All the above said with deep affection.
p.s.me scanners fecked.
Edited by avinalarf on Sunday 14th August 18:31
sidicks said:
avinalarf said:
You and your bleedin links.
I've got the newspaper so unless I can stuff it down my iPad and up your jacksy I can't help you.
Sidicks,I'll give you the £2.50 next time we have a drink together,got out and buy one.
Well it's hard for people to comment on something that they probably won't have seen!I've got the newspaper so unless I can stuff it down my iPad and up your jacksy I can't help you.
Sidicks,I'll give you the £2.50 next time we have a drink together,got out and buy one.
You could easily take a photo of the article with your iPad and post that?!
avinalarf said:
That last sentence of yours .....was that a funny ?
Impossible for me to tell when you're serious or avinalarf.
All the above said with deep affection.
p.s.me scanners fecked.
Indeed - The point is that the thrust of your original post talked about nurses, refuse collectors, OAPs and PH members having no empathy for them...Impossible for me to tell when you're serious or avinalarf.
All the above said with deep affection.
p.s.me scanners fecked.
I have already posted today a comment regarding the "empathy" bit,you may have missed it.
That comment stated that,in retrospect,it was presumptious of me to post the comment regarding PH members.
The debate,I presumed,would revolve around whether the way in which the economy is heading i.e. Enriching a minority at the expense of the majority is good for society as a whole.
The above is shorthand for a debate that is more complex than the one sentence I've given it,but I hope you get my gist.
I will attempt to post a pic of the article in a following post.
One point that he raises is "the inter- generational faultline", and that those over 65 have done well.
I think that most of this gain is to those over 65's that own their own house,where property inflation has seen this asset grow substantially in value.
However we all know the phrase the bank of mum and dad.
It's a personal choice how we treat our kids,but I do not think I'm alone in giving my three daughters a substantial amount to help them buy a modest property in London.
Without my help ,even though they all have a decent paying job,it would have proved impossible for now,and not knowing where London prices are going in the next 10 years,maybe not until I passed way.
I preferred to have the pleasure of seeing them "settled" whilst I was alive.
So asset rich but relatively cash poor.
I think that most of this gain is to those over 65's that own their own house,where property inflation has seen this asset grow substantially in value.
However we all know the phrase the bank of mum and dad.
It's a personal choice how we treat our kids,but I do not think I'm alone in giving my three daughters a substantial amount to help them buy a modest property in London.
Without my help ,even though they all have a decent paying job,it would have proved impossible for now,and not knowing where London prices are going in the next 10 years,maybe not until I passed way.
I preferred to have the pleasure of seeing them "settled" whilst I was alive.
So asset rich but relatively cash poor.
sidicks said:
drainbrain said:
Won't work for Joe Average. And for one really simple reason. The order of magnitude by which you'd have to increase contribution to bring those inadequate pensions up to adequate simply isn't there even if you lockdown lifestyle spending to zero.
Any extra saving is going to improve matters and mean less reliance on others. If that means foregoing a new car for couple of years then it's a price worth paying in my opinion. If it means living hand to mouth and struggling to get by, then it is not.drainbrain said:
And we haven't even started on how he's to buy that house before he's 45…...
Home ownership is much lower on the continent, isn't it, where they choose to rent rather than buy? Assuming that renting is cheaper than buying (once interest rates return to normal level) and we start building more houses, is this a feasible way forward?Do people need to own their own houses?
I visited both Spain and Portugal this year and spoke to several well educated,charming youngsters aged 25-30.
As you know unemployment is very high.
Even if they get a job it might well pay circa €500 a month,not much use when the rental on a studio flat is circa €450 a month.
Edited 'cos I got the figures around the wrong way,doesn't make a lot of difference though.
Edited by avinalarf on Sunday 14th August 20:41
sidicks said:
avinalarf said:
No they don't and in theory your comments about renting require an answer.
I visited both Spain and Portugal this year and spoke to several well educated,charming youngsters aged 25-30.
As you know unemployment is very high.
Even if they get a job it might well pay circa €450 a month,not much use when the rental on a studio flat is circa €500 a month.
Unfortunately that's one of the problems with the Euro (and the lack of productivity development in Southern European countries) - they can't depreciate their currencies to make their economy more competitive. The "one size fits all" approach clearly doesn't work.I visited both Spain and Portugal this year and spoke to several well educated,charming youngsters aged 25-30.
As you know unemployment is very high.
Even if they get a job it might well pay circa €450 a month,not much use when the rental on a studio flat is circa €500 a month.
In those countries where owning a home isn't so widespread, presumably retirement saving must be that much higher so that they "can afford to fund rent post retirement?
same story.
Although Poland is picking up a bit.
Have you read Irwin Stelzer article on Trump and Clinton,same page on the right.
So what do I ,a layman conclude .....
The U.K. The USA and most of Europe in trouble.....economies being kept afloat by government intervention in the markets,
QE etc
The euro a busted flush only there because of some grand socio political adventure.
I haven't enough knowledge to say how share prices are being affected but I'd hazard a guess that they are artificially too high.
Also an article in Elliot re deflation......
Add to this mix the possibility of deflation....apparent already in oil and commodity prices
Add to this the end of cheap loans.
Well you tell me where you think this is leading ?
Edited by avinalarf on Sunday 14th August 20:57
Well braindrain....your conclusions about needing a rethink on how an economy should be run so that it benefits the majority is the same conclusion I came to.
And you lot ,don't think for one moment that I'm a closet Jeremy supporter,cos I ain't .
I just want to leave all our kids a decent society to live in.
Where they can have reasonable aspirations and dare to dream.
Like I did a child of the '60's.
Maybe this is just a bad hiccup,a perfect storm of bad events,the 2008 financial crisis the euro ,the whole EU adventure,and then the political problems in the ME and Africa,it's a real bleedin mess.
Any answers anyone ?
And you lot ,don't think for one moment that I'm a closet Jeremy supporter,cos I ain't .
I just want to leave all our kids a decent society to live in.
Where they can have reasonable aspirations and dare to dream.
Like I did a child of the '60's.
Maybe this is just a bad hiccup,a perfect storm of bad events,the 2008 financial crisis the euro ,the whole EU adventure,and then the political problems in the ME and Africa,it's a real bleedin mess.
Any answers anyone ?
And another thing my friends.....
Europe the UK ,the USA and whole swathes of the World have economies based on consumerism.
Now more than ever before.
And that terrible new cult of celebrity.
Youngsters bombarded with ads and music promos and tv "reality" programmes offering them everything their hearts desire and just a click of the mouse and it's theirs.
The Kadashians and Beckhams anybody ?
So however well intentioned and financially literate,however logical and well informed your comments are,surely they pall into insignificance when you have the power of large corporations preying on this young generation.
The Googles ,the Nikes, the Apples, Grazia style mags, the celebs all saying "look at us " you can join us ,you can be us,
No they cannot
Where is the message that I was taught as a child by my parents and teachers.......Hard work,save prudently,respect your elders,maybe they should all join PH and pray at the altar of sidicks.
I was taught this by my parents and observed their strong work ethic.
Not by listening to X factors or the Kardashians or some fantasising blog written by a 15 year old in her bedroom.
They are being told that with a miniscule of "talent" they can become successful and be a multi millionaire.
Or they watch "A life on benefits " and think "we'll have a bit of that".
Now before you all have a go at me....
Yes,I'm generalising.
There are plenty of kids that don't fall for that above rubbish,but I think you may agree that it is of a very corrosive nature and certainly isn't helping.
Europe the UK ,the USA and whole swathes of the World have economies based on consumerism.
Now more than ever before.
And that terrible new cult of celebrity.
Youngsters bombarded with ads and music promos and tv "reality" programmes offering them everything their hearts desire and just a click of the mouse and it's theirs.
The Kadashians and Beckhams anybody ?
So however well intentioned and financially literate,however logical and well informed your comments are,surely they pall into insignificance when you have the power of large corporations preying on this young generation.
The Googles ,the Nikes, the Apples, Grazia style mags, the celebs all saying "look at us " you can join us ,you can be us,
No they cannot
Where is the message that I was taught as a child by my parents and teachers.......Hard work,save prudently,respect your elders,maybe they should all join PH and pray at the altar of sidicks.
I was taught this by my parents and observed their strong work ethic.
Not by listening to X factors or the Kardashians or some fantasising blog written by a 15 year old in her bedroom.
They are being told that with a miniscule of "talent" they can become successful and be a multi millionaire.
Or they watch "A life on benefits " and think "we'll have a bit of that".
Now before you all have a go at me....
Yes,I'm generalising.
There are plenty of kids that don't fall for that above rubbish,but I think you may agree that it is of a very corrosive nature and certainly isn't helping.
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