Self Build Plot - Negotiation
Discussion
Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:
Yep - selling the other half to help pay for the actual build of the house would be helpful. Is this your final resting place (as it were)? Does it have to be your home or could you not sell the plots off (2 or 3) and then use that money to buy an even better site in 2 or 3 years time?
Even outline plans (depending on when they were done) have to have a design and access statement - it's almost pointless doing an outline application these days. But all of these plans will be on line. There will be at least an indicative outline of the house(s) on line - take that to the agents.
If you don't have anything then I suggest you get on bingmaps or google maps; print of a location map and get someone to do a promap of the site (I've got a personal account) - take that to agents and say to them - what would you put on that site. Meet as many agents as you can and then form your own conclusions - you never know what you'll come up with.
Could be final, but at not yet 40 never say never. Selling a plot of is an attempt to de risk, but the reality is that one house there would be mucho fabulous.Even outline plans (depending on when they were done) have to have a design and access statement - it's almost pointless doing an outline application these days. But all of these plans will be on line. There will be at least an indicative outline of the house(s) on line - take that to the agents.
If you don't have anything then I suggest you get on bingmaps or google maps; print of a location map and get someone to do a promap of the site (I've got a personal account) - take that to agents and say to them - what would you put on that site. Meet as many agents as you can and then form your own conclusions - you never know what you'll come up with.
I know who the vendor is, it's the agent
i've just read the planning docs, it would appear that the refusal for 4 was based on vehicle movements and impact on adjoining properties. 2 has never been applied for
That'll come down to visual splays etc etc. 3 houses might be ok - you need a traffic consultant to knock out the planners objections! If this was London I'd say suggest someone at WSP (don't want to give his name out on t'internet) would be good but not sure of North Midlands!
If it's that good a site I'd look at 3 houses; get full planning and then flip 'em or JV them with a developer. Then buy an utterly fantastic plot for yourself next time round. Or not depending on what you want to do.
If it's that good a site I'd look at 3 houses; get full planning and then flip 'em or JV them with a developer. Then buy an utterly fantastic plot for yourself next time round. Or not depending on what you want to do.
Guys I will check my pm's later when I have access.
For highways stuff I usually use WSP (offices all over) or Pinnacle in Bristol. Pinnacle have done plenty for me in the midlands.
Looks like this has a real chance for 2 plots based on whats been said so far (don't mention it to the agent or you will find youself with either an overage or a covenant or maybe both and you dont want that, heads of terms and a good land/development lawyer will be important)
For highways stuff I usually use WSP (offices all over) or Pinnacle in Bristol. Pinnacle have done plenty for me in the midlands.
Looks like this has a real chance for 2 plots based on whats been said so far (don't mention it to the agent or you will find youself with either an overage or a covenant or maybe both and you dont want that, heads of terms and a good land/development lawyer will be important)
blueg33 said:
Guys I will check my pm's later when I have access.
For highways stuff I usually use WSP (offices all over) or Pinnacle in Bristol. Pinnacle have done plenty for me in the midlands.
Looks like this has a real chance for 2 plots based on whats been said so far (don't mention it to the agent or you will find youself with either an overage or a covenant or maybe both and you dont want that, heads of terms and a good land/development lawyer will be important)
Agree with the above. A regular lawyer is not the way to go - use a specialist. Blue33 can recommend someone or I can if you need some suggestions. For highways stuff I usually use WSP (offices all over) or Pinnacle in Bristol. Pinnacle have done plenty for me in the midlands.
Looks like this has a real chance for 2 plots based on whats been said so far (don't mention it to the agent or you will find youself with either an overage or a covenant or maybe both and you dont want that, heads of terms and a good land/development lawyer will be important)
worsy said:
Thanks guys. Still exploring finance options which is a minefield.
What you need is an offshore investor! Someone on a yacht in Monaco, Dubai, Channel Islands, Grand Cayman etc. But they will need to show a return. My investors look for an IRR of about 13.5% and a running coupon of 10%.Finance is the hardest part by far
camp freddie said:
blueg33 said:
Finance is the hardest part by far
For a developer yes, but for the self builder perhaps not so much.
worsy said:
Finance is still not easy. Only one lender will lend on land, product is not so competitive. Alternative is bridge but very expensive and I want to slow build down.
You're not wrong. I had plenty of difficulty just borrowing for our self build with land already owned outright. We were borrowing well within our limits on income etc, but still were limited to two or three lenders. In the end we got a decent interest only deal from Halifax, but it took an age to get the money - initial application early February, first release landed in the bank in late July! This was borrowing only £60k on a final value property of >£200k. 
Time for an update, the figures I've used are for illustration only and are not the actual figues involved. Hope you follow this!
We were initially knocked back by one BS for the money, but another is prepared to lend. Lowering income for tax purposes does have a downside!
Whilst we were negotiating with the BS, one guy(Interested Party 1) has come in with an offer of 90k. At this stage there were three parties interested (me + 2) and the that offer was rejected.
I thought it was a good offer and only 10% below asking (which was offers in excess of 100k). The IP has then increased to 95k. At this point IP2 has offered 90k and obviously rejected.
I've then increased IP1's to 100k. I've provided the EA with a certificate that in principle I have access to funds.
IP1 has then put forward 102.5k as a full and final offer. It was left with me to beat it if I wished.
After some discussion with SWMBO we decided to walk away. We felt that even asking price was "expensive" and anything over would not provide a decent ROI.
Today the EA has come back to say IP1 has been turned down for finance, IP2 is (and I quote) not prpared to beat my previous offer of asking price. If my offer stands it is mine.
Now I feel rather sucked in by a dutch auction. I don't know whether IP2's first offer was his final offering. I also don't know whether the vendor would have accepted a lower offer if he hadn't thought there were as many interested and viable bidders.
In the meantime, we've obviously convinced ourselves it was n't the right move and happy to stay where we are so emotionally I need a fil-lip.
Comments?
We were initially knocked back by one BS for the money, but another is prepared to lend. Lowering income for tax purposes does have a downside!
Whilst we were negotiating with the BS, one guy(Interested Party 1) has come in with an offer of 90k. At this stage there were three parties interested (me + 2) and the that offer was rejected.
I thought it was a good offer and only 10% below asking (which was offers in excess of 100k). The IP has then increased to 95k. At this point IP2 has offered 90k and obviously rejected.
I've then increased IP1's to 100k. I've provided the EA with a certificate that in principle I have access to funds.
IP1 has then put forward 102.5k as a full and final offer. It was left with me to beat it if I wished.
After some discussion with SWMBO we decided to walk away. We felt that even asking price was "expensive" and anything over would not provide a decent ROI.
Today the EA has come back to say IP1 has been turned down for finance, IP2 is (and I quote) not prpared to beat my previous offer of asking price. If my offer stands it is mine.
Now I feel rather sucked in by a dutch auction. I don't know whether IP2's first offer was his final offering. I also don't know whether the vendor would have accepted a lower offer if he hadn't thought there were as many interested and viable bidders.
In the meantime, we've obviously convinced ourselves it was n't the right move and happy to stay where we are so emotionally I need a fil-lip.
Comments?
Sounds like you would only be happy with the price if you got turned down and didnt get it, I have the same problems myself in that regards, I hate negotiations, if it goes your way you think your paid too much, if you dont get it you feel upset!
Crunch your figures and have faith in them, I dont know how many k's difference we are talking but ultimately if you like the plot go for it.
Whats the worst that can happen, you cant sell the excess plots, you cant finish the house as you run out of money and default to the bank, oh hold on a sec, im not helping much am i
Crunch your figures and have faith in them, I dont know how many k's difference we are talking but ultimately if you like the plot go for it.
Whats the worst that can happen, you cant sell the excess plots, you cant finish the house as you run out of money and default to the bank, oh hold on a sec, im not helping much am i
Actually to add seriously, building yourself for the first time is very daunting, so many variables involved, unlike just buying something turn key.
Its easy to convince yourself its not worth it as a cloak to hide behind the fact your just a bit scared. I choked on the purchase on several occasions stating it was too expensive, but in retro respect they were not too far from the mark.
If the location is good, and you can fit the house of your compromise (the whole thing will be a compromise), you can afford it (roughly that is)and you plan to live there for some years, then go for it.
However if you are doing this on a purely investment basis, then in the current market it gets really tricky....
Its easy to convince yourself its not worth it as a cloak to hide behind the fact your just a bit scared. I choked on the purchase on several occasions stating it was too expensive, but in retro respect they were not too far from the mark.
If the location is good, and you can fit the house of your compromise (the whole thing will be a compromise), you can afford it (roughly that is)and you plan to live there for some years, then go for it.
However if you are doing this on a purely investment basis, then in the current market it gets really tricky....
satans worm said:
Actually to add seriously, building yourself for the first time is very daunting, so many variables involved, unlike just buying something turn key.
Its easy to convince yourself its not worth it as a cloak to hide behind the fact your just a bit scared. I choked on the purchase on several occasions stating it was too expensive, but in retro respect they were not too far from the mark.
If the location is good, and you can fit the house of your compromise (the whole thing will be a compromise), you can afford it (roughly that is)and you plan to live there for some years, then go for it.
However if you are doing this on a purely investment basis, then in the current market it gets really tricky....
Have taken a big hit on my current place, so although not an investment want to ensure we are not developing for a peak price. I'm so excited about it, scared, moi? no chance Its easy to convince yourself its not worth it as a cloak to hide behind the fact your just a bit scared. I choked on the purchase on several occasions stating it was too expensive, but in retro respect they were not too far from the mark.
If the location is good, and you can fit the house of your compromise (the whole thing will be a compromise), you can afford it (roughly that is)and you plan to live there for some years, then go for it.
However if you are doing this on a purely investment basis, then in the current market it gets really tricky....
At the moment SWMBO is spitting fire over it, trying to de-emotion the whole thing for her but not easy
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