2016 Lawn thread

[Mario149]

Few moss killing questions ref ferrous sulphate application:

1) I need to do about 3/4 of an acre so thinking of buying 20kg of this: http://mistralni.co.uk/products/iron-sulphate-ferr... By my calcs that should do about 3000m2 (3/4 acre) based on 7g/m2 (it seems 5-10g / m2 is suggested for moss killing, so I've split the difference). Does this sound about right?

2) should I buy a spreader (e.g. http://www.mowdirect.co.uk/agri-fab-broadcast-spre... ) to tow behind my soon-to-be-arriving lawn tractor? Or instead dissolve it in water and go down the manual sprayer route which seems like it might take an awful long time? The former seems much easier but I'm a little worried about being able to set the spreader to dispense at the correct rate. Is it always just trial and error?

3) we have a big dog (young Rottie, 50kg in case it makes any difference), do we need to keep him off the lawn to keep him safe after applying it? There seems to be conflicting info out there on this.

Thanks in advance

Edited by Mario149 on Monday 18th April 15:46

[Cactussed]

Dissolve and spray mate.

[jagnet]

Pheo said:

So I shortly need to get the turf down. Anyone got any recommendations on what turf to use and on a supplier? It's a relatively small lawn so when it does get used it'll be regular, and although getting a fair amount of sun we are quite overshadowed so something which is atleast tolerant of that. Finally on clay soil. Any thoughts?

You could use a standard turf and overseed at the same time as laying it with something like Lawnsmith's Shadygreen or Germinal's A6 Supreme shade; hopefully by the winter the shade tolerant seed will make a difference.

Alternatively, and the better option imho, you'll need a wear and shade resistant turf such as the 100% Poa supina Shadesman from Turfland or Turfonline.

Poa supina turf isn't cheap because a) the seed is expensive and b) it needs longer to establish than a ryegrass only turf before it's sold but if you've got a shady family lawn it's your best option if you don't want to sow the lawn from seed.

Cactussed said:

Slightly unsure of best way to go, balancing results vs effort involved.

Its about 50sqm in total.

With 10cm of topsoil I think you'd get away with a close mow, generous forking through the existing turf and then add the new soil. It's not the textbook way of doing it by any means, but removing the existing turf is going to generate a lot of spoil to get rid of and be quite a bit of work without a turf cutter.

Regular deep aeration with a fork twice a year will help ensure that the roots of the new lawn penetrate through the old and help the worm and fungal activity in the soil break the old turf down. You may find some slightly uneven sinking occurs as that happens, but nothing that top dressing can't deal with.

No need to glyphosate the old lawn as it won't be able to survive being buried under 10cm of topsoil.

paulrockliffe said:

1. Scarfiy, aerate.
2. Kill the moss
3. Kill the weeds - Can I do this at the same time, or better to leave a gap?
4. Fertiliser
5. Extra soil/peat where necessary and over-seed.

Does that sound about right?

1, 2, and 3) I'd kill the moss off first, wait a few days and deal with the weeds, then scarify and aerate a couple of weeks later.

4 and 5) I'd get the top dressing down first then add starter fertiliser at the same time as over seeding.

Mario149 said:

Few moss killing questions ref ferrous sulphate application:

I'd keep the dog off the lawn for a couple of days as much to avoid it being brought indoors (ferrous sulphate stains like anything) as the health of the dog. It shouldn't be an issue for the dog, but better safe than sorry.

As above, I'd dissolve and spray which is a much easier way of applying to get an even application. You can get pedestrian sprayers and tow behind ones which admittedly aren't cheap but presumably you'll be using it for ferrous sulphate treatments in the future (as a turf hardener as much as moss killer hopefully) and you can then also use liquid feeds should you wish as well as being able to apply compost teas. It'd be doable with a knapsack sprayer, but it'd get annoying fairly quickly.

[8-P]

Well no signs of germination yet. Seed went down last Saturday. I think it's just too cold

[BRISTOL86]

8-P said:

Well no signs of germination yet. Seed went down last Saturday. I think it's just too cold

How quickly would you normally expect to see something happening?

[jagnet]

Usually one to two weeks for germination. Where I'd be concerned is if you've had any frost in the meantime (I know we did have one frosty morning last week here) which could've harmed any seeds if they'd just started germinating.

See how it goes. If there's still no sign in another week or so then you may need to think about seeding again.

[BRISTOL86]

Jagnet - is there any benefit to me overseeding the front lawn at this point? There aren't any patches without grass like there are out the back, is overseeding still beneficial in this instance? I've aerated and fertilised.

Thanks

[8-P]

jagnet said:

Usually one to two weeks for germination. Where I'd be concerned is if you've had any frost in the meantime (I know we did have one frosty morning last week here) which could've harmed any seeds if they'd just started germinating.

See how it goes. If there's still no sign in another week or so then you may need to think about seeding again.

Weve had a couple of really cold mornings but no actual frost from what I could see. Front lawn is North facing but does get afternoon sun.

[jagnet]

BRISTOL86 said:

Jagnet - is there any benefit to me overseeding the front lawn at this point? There aren't any patches without grass like there are out the back, is overseeding still beneficial in this instance? I've aerated and fertilised.

Thanks

I'd leave it as is for now and perhaps overseed in the autumn, but with new turf in good growing conditions that's well maintained and hasn't sustained damage I wouldn't be rushing to overseed in the first year or two unless you particularly wanted to introduce alternative grass species and cultivars into the sward.

8-P said:

Weve had a couple of really cold mornings but no actual frost from what I could see. Front lawn is North facing but does get afternoon sun.

Sounds as though it's just taking its time then Definitely give it another week or so and see how it's doing then; it's surprising what just a little extra shade can do to germination times so being north facing I'd expect it to take a while to get going.

[BRISTOL86]

jagnet said:

BRISTOL86 said:

Jagnet - is there any benefit to me overseeding the front lawn at this point? There aren't any patches without grass like there are out the back, is overseeding still beneficial in this instance? I've aerated and fertilised.

Thanks

I'd leave it as is for now and perhaps overseed in the autumn, but with new turf in good growing conditions that's well maintained and hasn't sustained damage I wouldn't be rushing to overseed in the first year or two unless you particularly wanted to introduce alternative grass species and cultivars into the sward.

Thanks Jagnet - that's not new turf out the front, it's the same as was there when we moved in - it's a pretty well established lawn. But I'm not sure there's any real need to overseed, as you say it hasn't sustained any damage.

[jagnet]

Ah ok, I had it in my mind that you'd turfed that bit. I'd still leave it for now then if you're happy with it and go for an autumn overseed (autumn is usually a little better than spring for renovations as ground temps are already up and the grass has all winter to establish before suffering use and droughty summer conditions).

If you want a seed mix that'll make your front lawn stand out from the crowd then I can thoroughly recommend Germinal's A26 So Green. I did a double take on my neighbour's lawn the other week it was looking so very very green in the sunshine and that was a lawn that I'd over seeded with A26 last autumn. It's a ryegrass/fescue/bent mix so isn't hard to look after and it does look stunningly green; perfect for the battle of the front lawns

[BRISTOL86]

jagnet said:

Ah ok, I had it in my mind that you'd turfed that bit. I'd still leave it for now then if you're happy with it and go for an autumn overseed (autumn is usually a little better than spring for renovations as ground temps are already up and the grass has all winter to establish before suffering use and droughty summer conditions).

If you want a seed mix that'll make your front lawn stand out from the crowd then I can thoroughly recommend Germinal's A26 So Green. I did a double take on my neighbour's lawn the other week it was looking so very very green in the sunshine and that was a lawn that I'd over seeded with A26 last autumn. It's a ryegrass/fescue/bent mix so isn't hard to look after and it does look stunningly green; perfect for the battle of the front lawns

Thanks for that! Though I now have a bag of Lawnsmith's standard seed that's surplus to requirements as I ordered that for the back in a momentary lapse of concentration, when I was meant to be ordering shadygreen for the back! Doh!

[Craikeybaby]

Weather forecast is looking better this week, so will try to scarify, fertilise & overseed on Thursday evening.

[elliot_holder]

Can anyone help with a weed question?

Turfed last year after having levelled garden, unfortunately we don't have very good drainage as our garden is stepped and has large retaining walls. As a result it got quite sodden over the winter and went very patchy.

I've since been patching, removing moss and over seeding. It's made a huge difference but I keep spotting small patches of these 'grass - like' weeds which appear in clumps.

From a distance it looks like grass but is much bushier and thicker when left to grow.

Anyone know what it is and how I get rid?

[BRISTOL86]

Here's our two week forecast:





Nice temps in the day but overnights of 1-3 degrees on some days - is it still too cold to be thinking about getting started with the seeding?

[jagnet]

elliot_holder said:

I think that's Field Woodrush. Unfortunately it's a monocot like grass so normal selective herbicides aren't going to do much to it, although those containing mecoprop-P such as Resolva can slow its growth.

I would check the acidity of the soil where it's growing. If it's fairly acidic then it may be possible to lime the soil to get rid of it and prevent it coming back as it does prefer a more acidic soil.

If normal lawn weed killers and liming don't work then you're left with either trying to dig them out by hand, trying to paint glyphosate onto individual plants using something like a cotton bud, or killing off affected patches completely with glyphosate and reseeding.

In the meantime I would certainly try to keep it in check by removing any seed heads that you see.

[jagnet]

BRISTOL86 said:

Nice temps in the day but overnights of 1-3 degrees on some days - is it still too cold to be thinking about getting started with the seeding?

I'd probably hold fire this weekend and look at doing it the following one.

[8-P]

I wish I had held off! Good day yesterday and today, I lightly watered yesterday and will today in the hope it might boost mine into life but Im not holding my breath. Im fairly sure its the lack of temperature thats holding mine back.

[elliot_holder]

jagnet said:

I think that's Field Woodrush. Unfortunately it's a monocot like grass so normal selective herbicides aren't going to do much to it, although those containing mecoprop-P such as Resolva can slow its growth.

I would check the acidity of the soil where it's growing. If it's fairly acidic then it may be possible to lime the soil to get rid of it and prevent it coming back as it does prefer a more acidic soil.

If normal lawn weed killers and liming don't work then you're left with either trying to dig them out by hand, trying to paint glyphosate onto individual plants using something like a cotton bud, or killing off affected patches completely with glyphosate and reseeding.

In the meantime I would certainly try to keep it in check by removing any seed heads that you see.

Thanks Jagnet - Really helpful advice and indeed it looks like it is Field Woodrush. I've been removing them by hand thus far so will continue my efforts.

You were spot on re: acidity, have tested and it looks like the soil is acidic so I'll get on the case with liming as well.
Guessing this might also explain or be the cause of the excessive amounts of thatch I seem to have and need to keep removing.

[Hammerhead]

This is + 9 days since moss killer went down. Result is not much evidence of dead moss so assume there wasn't too much to start with, but much greener, healthier looking grass Would the learned experts still recommend a scarifying session?