Am I obliged to allow Octopus to fit a smart meter?

[paulrockliffe]

was8v said:

My electricity bill has dropped by 1/3 since I moved to an octopus smart tariff from a flat rate.

Why would you not want that?

I get that perspective, but the bigger picture is that electricity is expensive because the Government haven't built 5% of the nuclear they promised and have wasted all that money on intermittent generation. When you respond by reducing your demand you are letting them off the hook. If demand is managed, you don't get to do the things you want when you want and you have to mess around with stuff that you shouldn't have to think about. And you're still paying more than you should for your electricity.

Remember, electricity was going to be too cheap to meter, now we're having silly conversations about what sort of meter fks us over the least.

[John87]

was8v said:

Because I have a had a smart meter on a fixed tariff for 5 years before (new build), simply comparing my consumption (4 bed 2 kids) against octopus agile was all I needed to do. (Octopus compare app on play store).

Doing a quarterly meter reading tells you nothing.

My only change in lifestyle has been never run the washing machine or dryer between 4-7pm. Set the dishwasher off on a 3 hour delay (mine has a button) when I go to bed.

We still cook (electric oven and induction hob) at 6pm every day.

I don't have an an EV

I'm also on agile and follow a similar approach. I don't go hungry while sitting in the dark reading by candlelight but I do move easy things like laundry and dishwasher to either daytime or overnight. My average monthly unit rate is usually less than half the price cap rate with zero effort.

I also have an EV which I mainly charge at work but when prices are negative (common when there is a lot of wind), I can plug in and be paid to use as much as possible which is nice. I wouldn't be without a smart meter now and see literally zero disadvantages to them. No one is going to remotely disconnect anyone's power as they have no way of knowing whether there is medical equipment etc connected...

[OutInTheShed]

otolith said:

OutInTheShed said:

IF you live some where with strong phone signals next to your meter you will probably be fine.

As I understand it, my current SMETS1 meter uses the mobile phone network, the new SMETS2 meter they want to install uses a dedicated radio network. Supposedly with 99.5% coverage, but my neighbour says that hers didn't work.

As I understand it, it's O2 GSM down here and Arqiva's 400-odd MHz network in the Northern Badlands.

https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html

I get an O2 signal in most of my house, but the meters are at the back, set into a wall in an alleyway that's almost underground.
I'd say we're in the top fraction of a percent of crap places to try a smart meter.
While we don't have an EV, it doesn't seem worth the effort and risk of it not working.
I'm expecting to move house before getting an EV, so it's not a huge concern, but I am probably paying more than I need for electricity

[otolith]

Yep, my house is in the Northern badlands, hence the change in tech between the two specifications.

[riskyj]

otolith said:

As I understand it, my current SMETS1 meter uses the mobile phone network, the new SMETS2 meter they want to install uses a dedicated radio network. Supposedly with 99.5% coverage, but my neighbour says that hers didn't work.

Interesting! I’m in the exact same boat. Had a SMETS1 from Bulb with the firmware update which worked fine. Octopus put in a SMETS2 and there is no signal.

[was8v]

paulrockliffe said:

was8v said:

My electricity bill has dropped by 1/3 since I moved to an octopus smart tariff from a flat rate.

Why would you not want that?

I get that perspective, but the bigger picture is that electricity is expensive because the Government haven't built 5% of the nuclear they promised and have wasted all that money on intermittent generation. When you respond by reducing your demand you are letting them off the hook. If demand is managed, you don't get to do the things you want when you want and you have to mess around with stuff that you shouldn't have to think about. And you're still paying more than you should for your electricity.

Remember, electricity was going to be too cheap to meter, now we're having silly conversations about what sort of meter fks us over the least.

Christ are you still living in 1973?

[964Cup]

You're all missing a key point.

Yes, smart meters give you some control over costs and access to cheaper tariffs.

Yes, they also allow your supplier to throttle your usage and - in future - remotely control smart devices in your house (this is baked into law - look up "energy smart appliances", "load controllers" and the very clear government fact sheet on the Energy Security Bill).

But they also allow everyone with access to the data to tell when you are away from home. And, based on your consumption along with your address, to make a decent guess at whether your house is worth robbing. This applies to all three utilities, although water is by far the most obvious, and can only be defeated by setting your house up to mirror consumption in residence while you are absent. Which is immensely wasteful as well as quite difficult to achieve.

So ask yourself, if you were a terribly paid, terribly managed call centre operator, likely on a completely different continent, and someone offered you money to let them know when the right sort of people were on their hols, wwyd?

[macron]

fk me that's some paranoia.

[babelfish]

macron said:

fk me that's some paranoia.

+1

[FMOB]

964Cup said:

You're all missing a key point.

Yes, smart meters give you some control over costs and access to cheaper tariffs.

Yes, they also allow your supplier to throttle your usage and - in future - remotely control smart devices in your house (this is baked into law - look up "energy smart appliances", "load controllers" and the very clear government fact sheet on the Energy Security Bill).

But they also allow everyone with access to the data to tell when you are away from home. And, based on your consumption along with your address, to make a decent guess at whether your house is worth robbing. This applies to all three utilities, although water is by far the most obvious, and can only be defeated by setting your house up to mirror consumption in residence while you are absent. Which is immensely wasteful as well as quite difficult to achieve.

So ask yourself, if you were a terribly paid, terribly managed call centre operator, likely on a completely different continent, and someone offered you money to let them know when the right sort of people were on their hols, wwyd?

Smart meters do support remote cut-off, considering how useless they are with basic technology would you trust them? Just waiting for someone to hack the network and turn everyone off.

[Road2Ruin]

babelfish said:

+1

+2.
That person needs some help...before the aliens get them.

[was8v]

946 cup's house when he goes away:

[Road2Ruin]

FMOB said:

Smart meters do support remote cut-off, considering how useless they are with basic technology would you trust them? Just waiting for someone to hack the network and turn everyone off.

Broadband, T.V., telephone, radio why had no one hacked those for their advantage. Arguably easier to hack than the electricity network meters, especially considering how long they have been around.

[Cupid-stunt]

Road2Ruin said:

FMOB said:

Smart meters do support remote cut-off, considering how useless they are with basic technology would you trust them? Just waiting for someone to hack the network and turn everyone off.

Broadband, T.V., telephone, radio why had no one hacked those for their advantage. Arguably easier to hack than the electricity network meters, especially considering how long they have been around.

fear not, thse people walk amongst us.

even Scully and Muder would shake their heads in disbelief.

[otolith]

Ah, get hold of the electricity consumption data and analyse it to see who might be on holiday. Because it’s not as if travel agents, airlines, hotels, and tour operators have actual lists of people who are on holiday.

[964Cup]

otolith said:

Ah, get hold of the electricity consumption data and analyse it to see who might be on holiday. Because it’s not as if travel agents, airlines, hotels, and tour operators have actual lists of people who are on holiday.

They might. But they don't know if you've all gone, or if you have a housesitter, or if you've just gone to another home (yours, friends, family) - or even are just out for the evening. Smart metering gives you real-time insight into exactly what people are doing.

I'm paranoid for a living, but I don't think this is that far-fetched. After all, spearphishing and other crime based on using social media to determine when people are away is very real (just google "Scoular hack" for an example). So is burgling celebs when they are known to be playing/performing/otherwise away.

[otolith]

Seems a lot of trouble compared to using the mkI eyeball or getting information from the local airport taxi office. I suppose someone with immensely valuable goods and a very paranoid mindset might otherwise successfully conceal the emptiness of their mansion, though they would probably seek security beyond obscurity.

[blueST]

I’m not that bothered any more, I used to be , but the horse has bolted on this one, so me refusing a smart meter is only putting off the inevitable. So, I caved in and booked a smart fitting, just to make the emails and calls stop. Guy turned up, took one look at the small cupboard that houses my current meter, said a smart meter wouldn’t fit unless he could use his hammer to smash out some of the opening. I declined, he left and smart meters have never been mentioned to me since.

So, consumer advice, if you don’t want smart meter, just box your dumb one in a nice close fitting cupboard. Problem solved.

[Macneil]

Louis Balfour said:

I rent my house and there was rain in the garden yesterday. I would expect the landlord to ensure a suitable level of sunshine.

A dog defecated within 100m of the property I rent from him, surely it should be a legal requirement for landlords to fit nappies to all dogs that live near me?

I rent my house and the Renter's Reform Bill should ensure that I am allowed to have the moon on a stick. Oh, and a button to turn it on and off. PAT tested every ten days at the landlord's expense.

Wah, wah wah, landlords.

I seem to have triggered you with my assumption that along with boiler, plumbing, electrics and general fabric of the house and grounds that my excellent landlord maintains with goodwill on both sides, the meters would be his responsibility. But then again he's not a buy-to-let merchant blaming his tenants because he can't screw enough out his stty dump to meet his mortgage overcommitments. How you managed to turn a simple query about sharp practice from an energy company into an anti landlord rant is baffling.

[James6112]

blueST said:

I’m not that bothered any more, I used to be , but the horse has bolted on this one, so me refusing a smart meter is only putting off the inevitable. So, I caved in and booked a smart fitting, just to make the emails and calls stop. Guy turned up, took one look at the small cupboard that houses my current meter, said a smart meter wouldn’t fit unless he could use his hammer to smash out some of the opening. I declined, he left and smart meters have never been mentioned to me since.

So, consumer advice, if you don’t want smart meter, just box your dumb one in a nice close fitting cupboard. Problem solved.

Problem solved?
Happy with mine.
8p kwh for 50% of our usage.
So averaging under 20p kwh

Not available to the freedom fighters