XL Bully

[Thevet]

alabbasi said:

popeyewhite said:

You need a licence for a gun, and go through several checks. A Bully is just another dangerous weapon and checks should be made before ownership.

There are a lot more kids causing problems then dogs causing problems. Should there be a license to have kids?
YES absolutely

popeyewhite said:

Not all breeds shrug aside being whacked on the head multiple times by an iron bar or block of wood.

What planet are you on? if you hit any dog with an iron bar on the head, it's going to die and you should go to prison. Please use your common sense.
Perhaps you should be more experienced in what happens with animal head trauma? How do you know? the bigger the head and stronger the neck, the less impact a puny human will have. Having seen head trauma on animals close up, I wonder what you know. Yes whacked multiple times does shade the argument, but have you any idea of what tht involves?
Main thing is that such large dogs, when aggressive, should be allowed to disperse their behaviour or genes more widely

Edited by alabbasi on Saturday 16th September 20:23

[Magnum 475]

alabbasi said:

popeyewhite said:

You need a licence for a gun, and go through several checks. A Bully is just another dangerous weapon and checks should be made before ownership.

There are a lot more kids causing problems then dogs causing problems. Should there be a license to have kids?

Judging by some of the truly awful parenting I see every day, yes. Mainly to ensure the welfare of the kids.

[Thevet]

Magnum 475 said:

Judging by some of the truly awful parenting I see every day, yes. Mainly to ensure the welfare of the kids.

Oh please run for parliament, you will have my vote

[okgo]

I doubt you’d stop one of those dogs with something like that.

I watched the video of the police shoot those two in London. It took about 3 shots with a shotgun to stop one of them. No way you’re doing it by hand before it’s done damage.

[NRG1976]

okgo said:

I doubt you’d stop one of those dogs with something like that.

I watched the video of the police shoot those two in London. It took about 3 shots with a shotgun to stop one of them. No way you’re doing it by hand before it’s done damage.

Only (realistic) way to stop a bully type dog during a fight is to choke it. Other dogs tend to bite and release, bully’s like to hang on.

Edited by NRG1976 on Saturday 16th September 21:01

[popeyewhite]

Thevet said:

if you hit any dog with an iron bar on the head, it's going to die

You know we're discussing the XL Bully, right? You've seen the video of people hitting one with an iron bar and a piece of 2x4 and the dog not even noticing?

I'm sorry but you're in danger of losing any hint of credibility you may have remaining.

[popeyewhite]

NRG1976 said:

Only (realistic) way to stop a bully type dog during a fight is to choke it.

Good luck with that. FFS.

[rigga]

Reading an article yesterday, that in the states they are cross breading with a variant called a gator mouth bully, which has the tendancy to once lock on, twist itself to rip flesh .

Yes not all dogs are the issue, and owners are, but what in the hell does anyone need to breed a big powerful dog, with a trait like that other than to wish harm on others.

[NRG1976]

If it was allowed I’d love to have a Pitbull or Dogo Argentino, majestic dogs that are loving, intelligent and can protect the family from intruders. I love dogs that are family pets, well behaved and yet are able to defend the household if needed either through sheer intimidation or by actually having to get physical.

I feel a lot more at ease when I’m away at work for a few nights knowing my current dog is with my family and will protect at all costs against burglars etc. Likewise when my wife or daughter go for walks they are accompanied by him and it just makes me feel that bit more relaxed that they have an extra level of protection.

Ditto if workmen have to attend my house in my absence and the ladies are at home by themselves.

I love all dogs, it’s just that I love those that can protect the family just a little more

ETA: I don’t own a XL bully (and wouldn’t as I think they are breed with health issues) but just laying out why some “normal” (not criminal) people may have large breed dogs that are not labradors etc.

Edited by NRG1976 on Saturday 16th September 23:18

[blueg33]

alabbasi said:

Actually this is nonsense. The Bully is a new pretty new breed of dog and was only recognized by the AKC in the US in 2004. From what I've read, the breed appears to have made it to the UK around 2016, and is not recognized by any breed associations. The first time I saw one in London was on the trip I got back from last week and it was a surprise to me to see it.

If it's not a recognized breed in the UK, what this means is that it's unlikely that any of these dogs have any paperwork with them that proves their lineage, and this can create a few problems including:

1) A LOT of mixes that categorized into a breed when they're actually not
2) Very tight breeding from unscrupulous breeders

The first is a problem that has impacted the pit bull breed in the US, where it seems that any time there's a dog bite, it was a pit bull. When you actually see pictures of the dogs, they often don't look anything like a pit bull, but more of a mix of many dogs, and have terrier characteristics (which 99% of mutts that you see at a dog shelter do).

The second becomes a problem when as there's no real regulation or standard set. A breeder can mix up their own breed to make something that looks close enough. For example, an English bull dog and cross it with a black lab , or a Rottweiler and cross it with an English Staff. If they get close enough to the physical characteristics of what's now called an XL Bully, they'll breed that mix tightly to maintain those characters, and the subsequent dogs will develop some pretty severe issues due to the tight breeding.

When I read that a brand new breed of dog breed is suddenly responsible for 60% of all fatal dog bites? My bullst meter tells me that there's a good chance that these dogs are mis-categorized. That like saying that 60% of all traffic accidents are caused by Lamborghini's. I'd be interested to know how many of those attack dogs came with actual paperwork.
.
Unfortunately, when I read something so definite as

blueg33 said:

This is a powerful dog with high prey drive built into its genetic traits deliberately. Even the best owner can’t programme that out

I'm 100% sure that it was written by somebody who has no idea about what he's talking about. .

blueg33 said:

I read here and see in the new a lot of complacency from owners.

“He is really gentle”
“Wouldn’t hurt a fly”

Etc

This is a powerful dog with high prey drive built into its genetic traits deliberately. Even the best owner can’t programme that out.

I would wager that many of the attacks to date were by dogs whose owners would make similar comments.

This complacency is a big risk factor in itself.

My quotes were directly from an established expert on dog genetics and breeding who was part of a long piece on radio 4. He said that the XL is the first dog that he has ever supported banning. He is a recognised expert.

[alabbasi]

Thevet said:

Perhaps you should be more experienced in what happens with animal head trauma? How do you know? the bigger the head and stronger the neck, the less impact a puny human will have

How do I know? I know that if I hit a concrete block with an iron bar, it's going to break a piece of concrete off. Like I said, I've had a American Pitbull in the past and am familiar with these type of breeds and heard all this bullst before. In case anybody is wondering, it's precisely this kind of attitude that creates this type of problem. People who think that these dogs can be abused because they're strong enough to take it, when in reality, they feel as much pain as any other animal. Then they wonder why the get wound up like a clock and snap.

blueg33 said:

My quotes were directly from an established expert on dog genetics and breeding who was part of a long piece on radio 4. He said that the XL is the first dog that he has ever supported banning. He is a recognised expert.

I'm going to call bullst on this. Every dog has a powerful enough bite to pierce skin, even a chihuahua. High prey drive? What like a Bird dog? Rat terrier? Hound? They all have a high prey drive because dogs come from wolves. You've never seen any other dog chase squirrels?

I can guarantee you that none of the dogs involved in these incidents had any paperwork or genetic testing after the fact so all these buzzwords are part of this nonsense. Please think through what you're saying if you have zero experience with these animals. You're adding to the hysteria.

[alabbasi]

Magnum 475 said:

Judging by some of the truly awful parenting I see every day, yes. Mainly to ensure the welfare of the kids.

Unfortunately there are more irresponsible dog owners which is why shelters are full of abandoned animals. I volunteered for dog shelters and rescue groups for many years, I also fostered several dogs when shelters were overwhelmed. I can tell you that Pitbull's are the most abused dogs. Yes they are a strong breed and yes they need to be managed. But this applies to any other dog breed large or small, because bad things will happen if a Pitbull attacks another dog and bad things will happen if another dog attacks a Pitbull. So any dog owner lets their dogs can run around loose in any place other than a gated dog park is an idiot. The unfortunate reality is that in Britain, you have a lot of idiots. I know this because every time I visit and run around Gunnersbury park, I see dogs running around off the leash. This is dangerous for the dog, it's dangerous for the owners and it's dangerous for other dogs.

Responsible dog owners who do have their dogs on a leash can't prevent an altercation if another dog runs up to theirs.

So when you hear sensible dog owners blame owners and not the breed? They're not saying it without thought..Every dog owner should have control of their dog regardless of whether it's a pit bull breed or a rat terrier breed.

[Berger 3rd]

I had the absolute misfortune of seeing the video of the poor guy who was killed by two of these dogs in Stonall, and if you think an iron bar is stopping these dogs you’re seriously deluded.

[EVOTECH3BELL]

Glad they're banned

The owners and breeders have brought it on themselves.
No 'normal' owner would have an XL Bully.

[Fast and Spurious]

NRG1976 said:

If it was allowed I’d love to have a Pitbull or Dogo Argentino, majestic dogs that are loving, intelligent and can protect the family from intruders. I love dogs that are family pets, well behaved and yet are able to defend the household if needed either through sheer intimidation or by actually having to get physical.

I feel a lot more at ease when I’m away at work for a few nights knowing my current dog is with my family and will protect at all costs against burglars etc. Likewise when my wife or daughter go for walks they are accompanied by him and it just makes me feel that bit more relaxed that they have an extra level of protection.

Ditto if workmen have to attend my house in my absence and the ladies are at home by themselves.

I love all dogs, it’s just that I love those that can protect the family just a little more

ETA: I don’t own a XL bully (and wouldn’t as I think they are breed with health issues) but just laying out why some “normal” (not criminal) people may have large breed dogs that are not labradors etc.

Edited by NRG1976 on Saturday 16th September 23:18

Sounds bloody awful there in Somalia:-(

[blueg33]

alabbasi said:

Thevet said:

Perhaps you should be more experienced in what happens with animal head trauma? How do you know? the bigger the head and stronger the neck, the less impact a puny human will have

How do I know? I know that if I hit a concrete block with an iron bar, it's going to break a piece of concrete off. Like I said, I've had a American Pitbull in the past and am familiar with these type of breeds and heard all this bullst before. In case anybody is wondering, it's precisely this kind of attitude that creates this type of problem. People who think that these dogs can be abused because they're strong enough to take it, when in reality, they feel as much pain as any other animal. Then they wonder why the get wound up like a clock and snap.

blueg33 said:

My quotes were directly from an established expert on dog genetics and breeding who was part of a long piece on radio 4. He said that the XL is the first dog that he has ever supported banning. He is a recognised expert.

I'm going to call bullst on this. Every dog has a powerful enough bite to pierce skin, even a chihuahua. High prey drive? What like a Bird dog? Rat terrier? Hound? They all have a high prey drive because dogs come from wolves. You've never seen any other dog chase squirrels?

I can guarantee you that none of the dogs involved in these incidents had any paperwork or genetic testing after the fact so all these buzzwords are part of this nonsense. Please think through what you're saying if you have zero experience with these animals. You're adding to the hysteria.

Where did I mention bite? I previously referred to prey drive in other dogs eg Jack Russell.

You are calling bullst but can’t even read.

Do try to read properly before you try and come across as high and mighty.

Perhaps you need to utilise the power of google and listen to the R4 piece. You might even be able with s bit of education to come across as less of an arrogant person with a huge chip on their shoulder.


The expert in question, is a highly regarded dog behaviourist and an expert witness in dangerous fog cases etc. He is easy to look up.

I suggest that he knows considerably more about these dogs and dogs in general than you or I. That’s why I used his terminology etc.

Edited by blueg33 on Sunday 17th September 06:46

[lrdisco]

NRG1976 said:

If it was allowed I’d love to have a Pitbull or Dogo Argentino, majestic dogs that are loving, intelligent and can protect the family from intruders. I love dogs that are family pets, well behaved and yet are able to defend the household if needed either through sheer intimidation or by actually having to get physical.

I feel a lot more at ease when I’m away at work for a few nights knowing my current dog is with my family and will protect at all costs against burglars etc. Likewise when my wife or daughter go for walks they are accompanied by him and it just makes me feel that bit more relaxed that they have an extra level of protection.

Ditto if workmen have to attend my house in my absence and the ladies are at home by themselves.

I love all dogs, it’s just that I love those that can protect the family just a little more

ETA: I don’t own a XL bully (and wouldn’t as I think they are breed with health issues) but just laying out why some “normal” (not criminal) people may have large breed dogs that are not labradors etc.

Edited by NRG1976 on Saturday 16th September 23:18

What utter rubbish. So a workman is likely to harm your family unless you have a vicious dog? Or whilst out for a walk?

The chances are that you would be the one raping or murdering your family. Look at the statistics on how many women are murdered and raped daily by their partners/husbands.
You’re the problem not some random!

[Harry Flashman]

NRG1976 said:

If it was allowed I’d love to have a Pitbull or Dogo Argentino, majestic dogs that are loving, intelligent and can protect the family from intruders. I love dogs that are family pets, well behaved and yet are able to defend the household if needed either through sheer intimidation or by actually having to get physical.

I feel a lot more at ease when I’m away at work for a few nights knowing my current dog is with my family and will protect at all costs against burglars etc. Likewise when my wife or daughter go for walks they are accompanied by him and it just makes me feel that bit more relaxed that they have an extra level of protection.

Ditto if workmen have to attend my house in my absence and the ladies are at home by themselves.

I love all dogs, it’s just that I love those that can protect the family just a little more

ETA: I don’t own a XL bully (and wouldn’t as I think they are breed with health issues) but just laying out why some “normal” (not criminal) people may have large breed dogs that are not labradors etc.

Edited by NRG1976 on Saturday 16th September 23:18

Did anyone else read this post with rising disbelief?

"I'd like a loving family dog that can also be a dangerous weapon, and I expect the dog to be able to make that choice/switch".

There is a reason that police dogs, trained to harm, don't make good pets. And a reason that well-trained family pets don't make good weapons.

This, right here, is the problem, beautifully demonstrated.

[m3jappa]

I keep on reading the line that they were 'bred to kill'

Erm no they wasn't at all, they were bred to look the part but not act the part. Obviously minority as always have purposely bred ones to be aggressive. i have no doubt. but in general they were not bred to kill.

Ask yourself how so many were being stolen if they are so dangerous and are ready to kill the next moving target.

Issue is here there must be thousands and thousands of these dogs. some are no doubt going to have issues. For example a woman i know who lives in a decent street has just had a family move into the house next door. The council bought it (i believe).

Anyway, these people have got a dog, its not an xl bully but it could be typed as one easily, its some kind of bull breed cross. These people are letting the dog run around the street, the kids are out there hitting it and the dad is out there trying to make it bite onto the arm.........the dog is out of control, i walked past and stopped to stroke it and the thing was like a fking salmon, it jumped up and butted me in the lower jaw.

i have zero doubt that once they are bored of him he will be in the garden, i doubt they can afford to feed him properly either. proper scum bag family (who apparently is now being moved).

So thats why some end up like this.

[okgo]

Harry Flashman said:

Did anyone else read this post with rising disbelief?

"I'd like a loving family dog that can also be a dangerous weapon, and I expect the dog to be able to make that choice/switch".

There is a reason that police dogs, trained to harm, don't make good pets. And a reason that well-trained family pets don't make good weapons.

This, right here, is the problem, beautifully demonstrated.

Crazy, yes. Not for one second have I thought when I leave my wife and kid at home “balls, I’ve done it again, I’ve left the only things i care about in this world at home without protection, when will I learn”.

The opposite of ‘normal’ thinking which the poster claimed to be.