Dogs fighting - decision time.

[rhinochopig]

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

i.e. do you:

• Ignore them both until they are calm when you first come down in a morning?
• Eat before they do?
• Make them wait for you to go through doors first?
• Don't fuss them before leaving?
• Ignore them for a little while on your return?
• Insist they ALWAYs comply with your commands?
• Always reward good behaviour?
• Etc.

One of the issues may be that they are vying for alpha status as they do not see you or your family in that role?

Just a thought.

[King Herald]

rhinochopig said:

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

i.e. do you:

• Ignore them both until they are calm when you first come down in a morning?

When I walk out the back door first thing in the morning, to turn off the outside lights on the garage, our mob go berserk, barking and yelping and howling.....

Unless I totally ignore them, don't even glance at them, and if I do that, they stand their silently.

I think they may be judging my mood actually........

As soon as I smile and say 'good morning' they are all leaping about as crazy as ever.

[ruff'n'smov]

rhinochopig said:

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

i.e. do you:

• Ignore them both until they are calm when you first come down in a morning?
• Eat before they do?
• Make them wait for you to go through doors first?
• Don't fuss them before leaving?
• Ignore them for a little while on your return?
• Insist they ALWAYs comply with your commands?
• Always reward good behaviour?
• Etc.

One of the issues may be that they are vying for alpha status as they do not see you or your family in that role?

Just a thought.

I couldn't agree more with this. The Bull dog is developing to be the dominant member of the entire family. When he first inflicted damage to your daughter then getting a second chance to inflict same damage on you has given him that opportunity.

Hope you get it sorted OP

[so called]

ruff'n'smov said:

rhinochopig said:

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

i.e. do you:

• Ignore them both until they are calm when you first come down in a morning?
• Eat before they do?
• Make them wait for you to go through doors first?
• Don't fuss them before leaving?
• Ignore them for a little while on your return?
• Insist they ALWAYs comply with your commands?
• Always reward good behaviour?
• Etc.

One of the issues may be that they are vying for alpha status as they do not see you or your family in that role?

Just a thought.

I couldn't agree more with this. The Bull dog is developing to be the dominant member of the entire family. When he first inflicted damage to your daughter then getting a second chance to inflict same damage on you has given him that opportunity.

Hope you get it sorted OP

My responses to the list, for myself, Wife and daughter are all positive, maybe with the exception regarding feeding as they are normally fed outside and don't see us eat. On the occasions they are inside and we eat, they get nothing.

The bulldog as with all of the digs, is made to wait/leave food, toys etc until given permission.
The issue of dominance from my eyes is between the two dogs.
The bulldog is constantly gesturing his dominance over the Hus/Mal.
Both mine and my Daughters injuries have been due to 'getting in between' during the fight.
As pointed out on here, this is the mistake we have made.

I am very confident that the bulldog would be fine if he was our only dog.

[Jasandjules]

rhinochopig said:

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

As I read the OP the issue is that the bulldog is resource guarding the Toys. i.e. the issue is two males who are both dominant personalities.

Part of the problem there is how do you get them to sort it out? I don't personally feel it is generally wise to try in a domestic environment.

Are they both neutered? Is there a b**ch that is intact?

[Hooli]

so called said:

Hooli said:

lovechild said:

Jasandjules said:

If you are rehoming a bulldog, I suspect there will be a fair few people quite happy to take him off your hands and give him a home with no children/dogs.

100%

Does he get on with bhes?

My Wife and Daughter are watching my reply very closely here so I'll be careful and I should comment on the removal of part of his wedding tackle.
Apart from the Bulldog and Hus/Mal, we have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who is seen by the two muscle dogs as the leader of their little clan.
A few weeks back we lost our sweet little girl CKCS after 10 years. The two young dogs gave her a little too much attention but I would say yes he was fine with a female of the species around.
Our past experience of having a dog and a bh has been without problems other than lots of yappy pups

I hope your reply passed muster?

It was just an idle thought as I've always wanted a Bulldog & we've got a Staffy bh. Not really the right time though as we restoring a house so a bit busy to deal with dogs.

[King Herald]

ruff'n'smov said:

I couldn't agree more with this. The Bull dog is developing to be the dominant member of the entire family. When he first inflicted damage to your daughter then getting a second chance to inflict same damage on you has given him that opportunity.

Hope you get it sorted OP

And thus, smiting him with a carefully and skillfully measured flip-flop clad kick to the nether regions, then staring him down, will reassure him that he is NOT the big cahuna in the house.

[lovechild]

rhinochopig said:

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

i.e. do you:

• Ignore them both until they are calm when you first come down in a morning?
• Eat before they do?
• Make them wait for you to go through doors first?
• Don't fuss them before leaving?
• Ignore them for a little while on your return?
• Insist they ALWAYs comply with your commands?
• Always reward good behaviour?
• Etc.

One of the issues may be that they are vying for alpha status as they do not see you or your family in that role?

Just a thought.

I agree with all of these as good ways to conduct yourself with your dogs and a good basis on which to work. In this case I think the last two are paramount and can be applied to help specifically with this problem. I think that the whole pack/dominance theory is a bit of a falsehood and doing a Cesar Milan and merely projecting confidence and authority to a dog will not solve specific issues.

Dogs often exhibit toy/food/people possession, and this sounds like what's happening here. The Bulldog fights the Mal over food and toys, therefore the first thing to do is remove the objects or scenarios where a fight will develop. With controls in place you would then try and:
A) Devalue the thing he's possessive about.
B) Convince him that the other dogs presence is a good thing.

Baby gates are invaluable in situations like these. They allow the dogs to be in each others company whilst still having a physical barrier in between them.

It would be interesting to hear what the behaviourist has recommended.

[condor]

I would also be interested in the behaviourist's recommendations.

I'm currently looking after two 1 year old male labs and their play fighting has become more vicious and is ringing warning bells. They're both on 6 weeks of steady exercise as they've recently been castrated and their internal stitching needs time to heal properly.

[bexVN]

The biggest mistake made is castrating both dogs, this can cause confusion and conflict where there previously was non.

[condor]

I'm surprised the vet didn't warn the owners ( I'm their dog walker/sitter) about that issue. Just a short read of t'internet said 1 should be done at a time. I think it's because the owners both work and had time over the Christmas period to look after them that they both got done at the same time.
I've taken them both out separately for long walks with other dogs today and they've both had great fun playing with the other dogs and no sign of any aggression towards the other dogs.

[bexVN]

^^ It's not always a problem but the general guide is if you can tell out of the two who is more submissive but maybe trying his luck that's when fighting occurs. The best plan is to castrate the submissive dog and (for a good while at least) leave the dominant entire. A neutered submissive dog much less likely to try it on and cause fights. It's not always that black and white though!

These two may naturally settle once exercise is back to normal which it should be by now (10 days restricted is enough healing time) and hormones have settled!

Edited by bexVN on Thursday 1st January 14:18

Edited by bexVN on Thursday 1st January 14:40

[johnxjsc1985]

bexVN said:

It's not always a problem but the general guide is if you can tell out of the two who is more submissive but maybe trying his luck that's when fighting occurs. The best plan is to castrate the submissive dog and (for a good while at least) leave the dominant entire. A neutered submissive dog much less likely to try it on and cause fights. It's not always that black and white though!

These two may naturally settle once exercise is back to normal which it should be by now and hormones have settled!

My Shepherd bh was hugely aggressive and on effectively on death row last chance saloon.
Whilst visiting her at the RSPCA we took a ball into the field and within minutes you could see how her fixation problems could be overcome by exercise.
After playing with a tennis ball and retrieving it for 10 mins she was a completely different Dog her stress levels had virtually vanished.
just hope they manage to sort out the problems for all concerned

[so called]

Hooli said:

It was just an idle thought as I've always wanted a Bulldog & we've got a Staffy bh. Not really the right time though as we restoring a house so a bit busy to deal with dogs.

Hi Hooli,
I've noted what you say.

We haven't made our decision just yet.
The Trainer is coming round on Tuesday next week so maybe things will be a bit clearer then ????
I'm realising what a horrible situation this is.
Had two trips to hospital but after 6 days, definite signs of healing.
Which is in line with my attitude towards George.
I can't deny that I love the dog and I'm pretty fed up about it.
Bit miffed that we've received some pressure from my son and his girlfriend because if their concern for our 6 month old grandson. For when they visit.
Still, their position is understandable under the circumstances.

[Jasandjules]

so called said:

Bit miffed that we've received some pressure from my son and his girlfriend because if their concern for our 6 month old grandson. For when they visit.
Still, their position is understandable under the circumstances.

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

[so called]

Jasandjules said:

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

Yes but there are some over emotionals going on I'm afraid.

[bexVN]

so called said:

Jasandjules said:

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

Yes but there are some over emotionals going on I'm afraid.

The stories we read may be rare occurrences but will cause an understandable concern for parents of a young child, esp if you are entering a house with a dog known for aggression (whatever the trigger). Shut in the kitchen only works if everyone shuts the kitchen door. Tbh a dog crate would be more secure and reassuring. Having a young baby myself (and a 4yr old) I would also have concerns even though I am experienced with dogs etc.

[so called]

bexVN said:

so called said:

Jasandjules said:

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

Yes but there are some over emotionals going on I'm afraid.

The stories we read may be rare occurrences but will cause an understandable concern for parents of a young child, esp if you are entering a house with a dog known for aggression (whatever the trigger). Shut in the kitchen only works if everyone shuts the kitchen door. Tbh a dog crate would be more secure and reassuring. Having a young baby myself (and a 4yr old) I would also have concerns even though I am experienced with dogs etc.

Absolutely agree that "he's outside" or "he's in the kitchen" is not sufficiently secure.
We have a dog crate which he sleeps in every night.
I guess this sounds a little cruel but be loves his bed and by 10:00 pm he's letting us know ge wants to go to bed

I'll be having a chat with my son next week after the meeting with the trainer.

[Hooli]

bexVN said:

so called said:

Jasandjules said:

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

Yes but there are some over emotionals going on I'm afraid.

The stories we read may be rare occurrences but will cause an understandable concern for parents of a young child, esp if you are entering a house with a dog known for aggression (whatever the trigger). Shut in the kitchen only works if everyone shuts the kitchen door. Tbh a dog crate would be more secure and reassuring. Having a young baby myself (and a 4yr old) I would also have concerns even though I am experienced with dogs etc.

Put the 4 year old in the kitchen then

[so called]

Just to add an update, the Trainer called last week and so we had a good chat about what to do.
We've decided to continue with the training but this will be more intensive for George and both dogs are attending additional weekly obedience classes so lets see how it goes.

They've been all sweetness and light since the last set to.

Company firewall blocking me posting images right now but will try later.

Thanks again for all of the advice.
Tony.