Tropical fish dying off
Discussion
Sounds very much like they are having trouble with oxygen level, hence them being around the pump which would be spewing a water current back into the tank, a possible short term solution might be a partial water change 1/4 of a tank of so. I'm assuming that the water is heated, if so what temp are you running at?
Remember that if you are going to do a volume water change then you will have to ensure that the water is of a similar temp to the tank and that there is ideally a low chlorine level i.e filtered water or add some distilled water into the equation.
At any cost any fresh water is better than leaving then to die in a nitrate stew, if that what is causing the problem.
Remember that if you are going to do a volume water change then you will have to ensure that the water is of a similar temp to the tank and that there is ideally a low chlorine level i.e filtered water or add some distilled water into the equation.
At any cost any fresh water is better than leaving then to die in a nitrate stew, if that what is causing the problem.
Hi Slopes,
I'm afraid your lad is going to have to start again and it's going to take at least 6 weeks before he can have the fish he actually wants; you can achieve this the 'mean' way or the safe but boring way.
As mentioned the tank needs to be cycled - that's the nitrogen cycle.
Fish breath and poop ammonia, bacteria grow that eat the ammonia - yay.
However, they poop nitrites - equally bad for fish - boo!
Another set of bacteria will grow that eat nitrites - yay.
But they poop nitrates - boo.
Nitrates aren't soo bad for fish until they get to very high levels which can be dealt with by a weekly, fortnightly or month partial water change dependant on the size of your tank.
This process will take 6 weeks at best and you'll need a source of ammonia, I'll come to that in a mo.
What you need if you don't already have it -
A siphon
Heater
Filter
Thermometer
Aqua safe (de chlorinator)
A couple of 10litre buckets
API liquid tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and PH and General hardness if youre going the whole hog (last 2 are not really required if you're not going for specialist fish species, as most will adapt as long as the levels don't change wildly).
(don't waste any money on strip tests, they're rubbish).
If you have an iPhone/iPad buy an app called Aqua Planer Pro, it's pennies and will save a load of time with graph paper, rulers and Biro stains.
You're nearly ready.
As I mentioned, you need a source of ammonia, obviously, fish produce this - but many fish keepers will throw a wobbly if you go through the cycling process with fish in the tank (although this is how it's been done for decades).
So, you either need to find a source of pure ammonia or do a fish in cycle, which shouldn't hurt the fish too much if you keep on top of it.
Pretty much the best fish to do this with are Guppies as they're near indestructible and cheap as chips - they're also known as the millions fish (you'll find out why if you get both sexes).
So, empty half the water out the tank (you may have already started to get some bacteria so don't ditch it all)
Re-fill with 2.5 - 3 10 litre buckets Which you put 5ml of aqua safe into ( each bucket, not the tank) making sure the water temp is the same as the tank - Luke warm to the touch for 27c which is what you're aiming for from the tank heater).
Test for ammonia (only)
If <1ppm go out and buy 4-5 guppies and pop them in (only one sex unless you want gazillions of them within 6-8 weeks)
(they should be aclimatised to the tank for 20 mins in the bag before you let them loose).
Now test the water everyday for ammonia only (plugging your results into aquaplaner pro) if it goes above 2ppm, and it will, do a 50% water change.
This will be a daily occurrence after the first 2-3 days.
Don't worry if the water goes really cloudy, that's the bacteria growing.
After a few weeks the ammonia levels will drop off, from this point onwards you start testing for both ammonia and nitrItes daily.
If either go over 2ppm do a 50% water change, probably daily after 2-3 days from the ammonia dropping off.
After another 3-4 weeks your tests will show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes - now you start testing for nitrAtes.
If you have ANY, you're cycled.
This is when you switch to weekly/fortnightly or monthly partial water changes (testing for ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes weekly), probably no more than 20%, but you want to keep the nitrAtes below 20ppm and definitely less than 40ppm.
You can now go out and buy the fish you actually want.
It's a properly involved process, but once it's nailed it's plain sailing and very rewarding thereafter.
54 litres is a fairly nice size to get started; the bigger the tank, the less hassle it is to maintain (as pollutants are a smaller percentage of volume).
Be careful as it can become addictive.
I'm afraid your lad is going to have to start again and it's going to take at least 6 weeks before he can have the fish he actually wants; you can achieve this the 'mean' way or the safe but boring way.
As mentioned the tank needs to be cycled - that's the nitrogen cycle.
Fish breath and poop ammonia, bacteria grow that eat the ammonia - yay.
However, they poop nitrites - equally bad for fish - boo!
Another set of bacteria will grow that eat nitrites - yay.
But they poop nitrates - boo.
Nitrates aren't soo bad for fish until they get to very high levels which can be dealt with by a weekly, fortnightly or month partial water change dependant on the size of your tank.
This process will take 6 weeks at best and you'll need a source of ammonia, I'll come to that in a mo.
What you need if you don't already have it -
A siphon
Heater
Filter
Thermometer
Aqua safe (de chlorinator)
A couple of 10litre buckets
API liquid tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and PH and General hardness if youre going the whole hog (last 2 are not really required if you're not going for specialist fish species, as most will adapt as long as the levels don't change wildly).
(don't waste any money on strip tests, they're rubbish).
If you have an iPhone/iPad buy an app called Aqua Planer Pro, it's pennies and will save a load of time with graph paper, rulers and Biro stains.
You're nearly ready.
As I mentioned, you need a source of ammonia, obviously, fish produce this - but many fish keepers will throw a wobbly if you go through the cycling process with fish in the tank (although this is how it's been done for decades).
So, you either need to find a source of pure ammonia or do a fish in cycle, which shouldn't hurt the fish too much if you keep on top of it.
Pretty much the best fish to do this with are Guppies as they're near indestructible and cheap as chips - they're also known as the millions fish (you'll find out why if you get both sexes).
So, empty half the water out the tank (you may have already started to get some bacteria so don't ditch it all)
Re-fill with 2.5 - 3 10 litre buckets Which you put 5ml of aqua safe into ( each bucket, not the tank) making sure the water temp is the same as the tank - Luke warm to the touch for 27c which is what you're aiming for from the tank heater).
Test for ammonia (only)
If <1ppm go out and buy 4-5 guppies and pop them in (only one sex unless you want gazillions of them within 6-8 weeks)
(they should be aclimatised to the tank for 20 mins in the bag before you let them loose).
Now test the water everyday for ammonia only (plugging your results into aquaplaner pro) if it goes above 2ppm, and it will, do a 50% water change.
This will be a daily occurrence after the first 2-3 days.
Don't worry if the water goes really cloudy, that's the bacteria growing.
After a few weeks the ammonia levels will drop off, from this point onwards you start testing for both ammonia and nitrItes daily.
If either go over 2ppm do a 50% water change, probably daily after 2-3 days from the ammonia dropping off.
After another 3-4 weeks your tests will show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes - now you start testing for nitrAtes.
If you have ANY, you're cycled.
This is when you switch to weekly/fortnightly or monthly partial water changes (testing for ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes weekly), probably no more than 20%, but you want to keep the nitrAtes below 20ppm and definitely less than 40ppm.
You can now go out and buy the fish you actually want.
It's a properly involved process, but once it's nailed it's plain sailing and very rewarding thereafter.
54 litres is a fairly nice size to get started; the bigger the tank, the less hassle it is to maintain (as pollutants are a smaller percentage of volume).
Be careful as it can become addictive.
Turn7 said:
Or use Tetra Safestart to cycle the filter....
In my experience it doesn't work.Bacteria need oxygen and ammonia to live, they'll be long dead sitting on a LFS shelf for months before you pop it in the tank to seed the filter and substrate.
Oh, OP, do you know anyone with a mature tank? If so, pop over with a bucket and your sponge filter, rub your new sponge filter with their old dirty one + nick a handful of ceramic media and keep them in the bucket with a bit of their water, rush back and place them in your filter and you could go through the who,e process in a week.
Ok, so after getting back from the original suppliers, it turns out we weren't too far off from being ready, the only thing we didn't do was a two week water change, 20% apparently. However, to be fair to the company, they have agreed to give his mum a credit note for the fish as they didn't tell us to do a water change when they sold us the tank or the fish.
So mum is happy, son is happy it wasn't him that killed them and i can rest in peace
We are doing a cycle as recommended by both you guys and the supplier of the tank/fish, then start again. Many many thanks for all your help Big Al, Donny Mac and everyone else who contributed, your help was very much appreciated and i shall update this thread when we get round to introducing the fish into the tank
So mum is happy, son is happy it wasn't him that killed them and i can rest in peace
We are doing a cycle as recommended by both you guys and the supplier of the tank/fish, then start again. Many many thanks for all your help Big Al, Donny Mac and everyone else who contributed, your help was very much appreciated and i shall update this thread when we get round to introducing the fish into the tank
Would suggest a few small corydoras catfish, they just grub around in the gravel and clean up the food that the others miss.
There are some really stunning corydoras to be had.
http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_a...
There are some really stunning corydoras to be had.
http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_a...
DonnyMac said:
Hi Slopes,
I'm afraid your lad is going to have to start again and it's going to take at least 6 weeks before he can have the fish he actually wants; you can achieve this the 'mean' way or the safe but boring way.
As mentioned the tank needs to be cycled - that's the nitrogen cycle.
Fish breath and poop ammonia, bacteria grow that eat the ammonia - yay.
However, they poop nitrites - equally bad for fish - boo!
Another set of bacteria will grow that eat nitrites - yay.
But they poop nitrates - boo.
Nitrates aren't soo bad for fish until they get to very high levels which can be dealt with by a weekly, fortnightly or month partial water change dependant on the size of your tank.
This process will take 6 weeks at best and you'll need a source of ammonia, I'll come to that in a mo.
What you need if you don't already have it -
A siphon
Heater
Filter
Thermometer
Aqua safe (de chlorinator)
A couple of 10litre buckets
API liquid tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and PH and General hardness if youre going the whole hog (last 2 are not really required if you're not going for specialist fish species, as most will adapt as long as the levels don't change wildly).
(don't waste any money on strip tests, they're rubbish).
If you have an iPhone/iPad buy an app called Aqua Planer Pro, it's pennies and will save a load of time with graph paper, rulers and Biro stains.
You're nearly ready.
As I mentioned, you need a source of ammonia, obviously, fish produce this - but many fish keepers will throw a wobbly if you go through the cycling process with fish in the tank (although this is how it's been done for decades).
So, you either need to find a source of pure ammonia or do a fish in cycle, which shouldn't hurt the fish too much if you keep on top of it.
Pretty much the best fish to do this with are Guppies as they're near indestructible and cheap as chips - they're also known as the millions fish (you'll find out why if you get both sexes).
So, empty half the water out the tank (you may have already started to get some bacteria so don't ditch it all)
Re-fill with 2.5 - 3 10 litre buckets Which you put 5ml of aqua safe into ( each bucket, not the tank) making sure the water temp is the same as the tank - Luke warm to the touch for 27c which is what you're aiming for from the tank heater).
Test for ammonia (only)
If <1ppm go out and buy 4-5 guppies and pop them in (only one sex unless you want gazillions of them within 6-8 weeks)
(they should be aclimatised to the tank for 20 mins in the bag before you let them loose).
Now test the water everyday for ammonia only (plugging your results into aquaplaner pro) if it goes above 2ppm, and it will, do a 50% water change.
This will be a daily occurrence after the first 2-3 days.
Don't worry if the water goes really cloudy, that's the bacteria growing.
After a few weeks the ammonia levels will drop off, from this point onwards you start testing for both ammonia and nitrItes daily.
If either go over 2ppm do a 50% water change, probably daily after 2-3 days from the ammonia dropping off.
After another 3-4 weeks your tests will show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes - now you start testing for nitrAtes.
If you have ANY, you're cycled.
This is when you switch to weekly/fortnightly or monthly partial water changes (testing for ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes weekly), probably no more than 20%, but you want to keep the nitrAtes below 20ppm and definitely less than 40ppm.
You can now go out and buy the fish you actually want.
It's a properly involved process, but once it's nailed it's plain sailing and very rewarding thereafter.
54 litres is a fairly nice size to get started; the bigger the tank, the less hassle it is to maintain (as pollutants are a smaller percentage of volume).
Be careful as it can become addictive.
All of this!!!I'm afraid your lad is going to have to start again and it's going to take at least 6 weeks before he can have the fish he actually wants; you can achieve this the 'mean' way or the safe but boring way.
As mentioned the tank needs to be cycled - that's the nitrogen cycle.
Fish breath and poop ammonia, bacteria grow that eat the ammonia - yay.
However, they poop nitrites - equally bad for fish - boo!
Another set of bacteria will grow that eat nitrites - yay.
But they poop nitrates - boo.
Nitrates aren't soo bad for fish until they get to very high levels which can be dealt with by a weekly, fortnightly or month partial water change dependant on the size of your tank.
This process will take 6 weeks at best and you'll need a source of ammonia, I'll come to that in a mo.
What you need if you don't already have it -
A siphon
Heater
Filter
Thermometer
Aqua safe (de chlorinator)
A couple of 10litre buckets
API liquid tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and PH and General hardness if youre going the whole hog (last 2 are not really required if you're not going for specialist fish species, as most will adapt as long as the levels don't change wildly).
(don't waste any money on strip tests, they're rubbish).
If you have an iPhone/iPad buy an app called Aqua Planer Pro, it's pennies and will save a load of time with graph paper, rulers and Biro stains.
You're nearly ready.
As I mentioned, you need a source of ammonia, obviously, fish produce this - but many fish keepers will throw a wobbly if you go through the cycling process with fish in the tank (although this is how it's been done for decades).
So, you either need to find a source of pure ammonia or do a fish in cycle, which shouldn't hurt the fish too much if you keep on top of it.
Pretty much the best fish to do this with are Guppies as they're near indestructible and cheap as chips - they're also known as the millions fish (you'll find out why if you get both sexes).
So, empty half the water out the tank (you may have already started to get some bacteria so don't ditch it all)
Re-fill with 2.5 - 3 10 litre buckets Which you put 5ml of aqua safe into ( each bucket, not the tank) making sure the water temp is the same as the tank - Luke warm to the touch for 27c which is what you're aiming for from the tank heater).
Test for ammonia (only)
If <1ppm go out and buy 4-5 guppies and pop them in (only one sex unless you want gazillions of them within 6-8 weeks)
(they should be aclimatised to the tank for 20 mins in the bag before you let them loose).
Now test the water everyday for ammonia only (plugging your results into aquaplaner pro) if it goes above 2ppm, and it will, do a 50% water change.
This will be a daily occurrence after the first 2-3 days.
Don't worry if the water goes really cloudy, that's the bacteria growing.
After a few weeks the ammonia levels will drop off, from this point onwards you start testing for both ammonia and nitrItes daily.
If either go over 2ppm do a 50% water change, probably daily after 2-3 days from the ammonia dropping off.
After another 3-4 weeks your tests will show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes - now you start testing for nitrAtes.
If you have ANY, you're cycled.
This is when you switch to weekly/fortnightly or monthly partial water changes (testing for ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes weekly), probably no more than 20%, but you want to keep the nitrAtes below 20ppm and definitely less than 40ppm.
You can now go out and buy the fish you actually want.
It's a properly involved process, but once it's nailed it's plain sailing and very rewarding thereafter.
54 litres is a fairly nice size to get started; the bigger the tank, the less hassle it is to maintain (as pollutants are a smaller percentage of volume).
Be careful as it can become addictive.
(ace post!)
^^^^ all of that.
I would be prepared for how long it takes to cycle the tank properly. Uncycled, be prepared for 3 25% water changes per day (after testing, of course), Once cycled you will only need to do 1x25% water change per week- depending on fish.
Also, I would read up on what fish are appropriate for the size of your tank. E.g a 5 gallon is pretty small and would only be suitable for a Siamese fighter.
Further, read up about which fish are compatible with which- you don't want to buy a territorial fish and put it in a community tank.
The only other thing I would add is instead of Guppies, go for Zebra Danios or Neon Tetra's- just as hardy as the Guppies, but do not breed like guppies!
I would be prepared for how long it takes to cycle the tank properly. Uncycled, be prepared for 3 25% water changes per day (after testing, of course), Once cycled you will only need to do 1x25% water change per week- depending on fish.
Also, I would read up on what fish are appropriate for the size of your tank. E.g a 5 gallon is pretty small and would only be suitable for a Siamese fighter.
Further, read up about which fish are compatible with which- you don't want to buy a territorial fish and put it in a community tank.
The only other thing I would add is instead of Guppies, go for Zebra Danios or Neon Tetra's- just as hardy as the Guppies, but do not breed like guppies!
Donnymac is spot on. You need to cycle the filter. Saved me typing all that out!
Water changes are essential to remove the waste the fish make. In a small tank I'd be aiming for 25-30% weekly to keep the nitrates down and remove poop. It seems like a lot of hassle but once you get in a routine with your buckets and making up treated water it will take half an hour a week tops on a little 54l tank. When you clean the tank don't go mad taking everything out and washing it as in time all the stuff in the tank gets a layer of "biofilm" on it which helps break down the fish waste.
A few more points:
Don't ever replace the contents of your filter, despite what it might say in the instructions to replace it every month or so, as this is where the majority of your helpful bacteria live and by replacing the filter media you're throwing them all away. Just rinse it out once a month in used tank water to stop it clogging up and put it back in the filter. Also carbon isn't needed in the filter unless you're removing medication from the water.
The thing is with advice from fish shops is that they are trying to make money. If they told everyone about cyling a filter and to come back in 6 weeks when their ammonia and nitrite tests are coming back clear then they would quickly go out of business, so take all their advice with a pinch of salt.
RO (reverse osmosis) water shouldn't really need to be used for tropical fish unless you're keeping expensive fussy fish like discus. The RO process removes all the minerals from the water so you have to carefully add them back in to the RO water so fish can actually live in it. If you get it wrong it can lead to big pH swings which can be deadly to fish. Just buy fish that can live in your local water conditions. I keep (and breed) Tanganyikan Cichlids which are very fussy when it comes to water quality and I use straight tapwater with dechlorinator (Seachem Prime) with no issues at all.
Someone mentioned about dechlorinators being useless- a decent one will neutralise chloramine as well as chlorine. However most water companies in the UK still use chlorine, chloramine is mainly an american thing. Try to get Seachem Prime if you can, its much more concentrated than the others so lasts ages making it much cheaper in the long run.
I wouldn't advise getting corydoras catfish unless you have sand on the bottom on the tank. They can damage their barbels trying to dig into gravel which leads to infections and usually death, plus they need to be kept in groups of 6+ otherwise they get stressed, and your tank isn't big enough for that (although some of the pygmy ones would be ok, just be aware of what species you are getting as some of them get to a fair size).
Water changes are essential to remove the waste the fish make. In a small tank I'd be aiming for 25-30% weekly to keep the nitrates down and remove poop. It seems like a lot of hassle but once you get in a routine with your buckets and making up treated water it will take half an hour a week tops on a little 54l tank. When you clean the tank don't go mad taking everything out and washing it as in time all the stuff in the tank gets a layer of "biofilm" on it which helps break down the fish waste.
A few more points:
Don't ever replace the contents of your filter, despite what it might say in the instructions to replace it every month or so, as this is where the majority of your helpful bacteria live and by replacing the filter media you're throwing them all away. Just rinse it out once a month in used tank water to stop it clogging up and put it back in the filter. Also carbon isn't needed in the filter unless you're removing medication from the water.
The thing is with advice from fish shops is that they are trying to make money. If they told everyone about cyling a filter and to come back in 6 weeks when their ammonia and nitrite tests are coming back clear then they would quickly go out of business, so take all their advice with a pinch of salt.
RO (reverse osmosis) water shouldn't really need to be used for tropical fish unless you're keeping expensive fussy fish like discus. The RO process removes all the minerals from the water so you have to carefully add them back in to the RO water so fish can actually live in it. If you get it wrong it can lead to big pH swings which can be deadly to fish. Just buy fish that can live in your local water conditions. I keep (and breed) Tanganyikan Cichlids which are very fussy when it comes to water quality and I use straight tapwater with dechlorinator (Seachem Prime) with no issues at all.
Someone mentioned about dechlorinators being useless- a decent one will neutralise chloramine as well as chlorine. However most water companies in the UK still use chlorine, chloramine is mainly an american thing. Try to get Seachem Prime if you can, its much more concentrated than the others so lasts ages making it much cheaper in the long run.
I wouldn't advise getting corydoras catfish unless you have sand on the bottom on the tank. They can damage their barbels trying to dig into gravel which leads to infections and usually death, plus they need to be kept in groups of 6+ otherwise they get stressed, and your tank isn't big enough for that (although some of the pygmy ones would be ok, just be aware of what species you are getting as some of them get to a fair size).
Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 25th February 09:03
Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 25th February 09:06
water changes. lots of them. This will keep the water fresh by removing and diluting the nasty stuff in the water. Get a test kit (liquid ones are best, but test strips will do if nothing else is available) and test for ammonia and nitrite. If either of them are above 0.25ppm do a 50% water change. If you havent been doing regular water changes then start with a 20% water change then a few hours later do another one so you dont shock the fish.
Test daily!
Test daily!
jonlk said:
OP - apologies for the hijack,
Gents I think our tank (starter kit from PaH), is 29l. Had 4 inhabitants (2 fish, 2 mini-shrimp) now due to the toxic water only has 1 (fish). No mention of cycling the tank from PaH so that's a bit late,
What can be done to help the survivor?
Google fish in cycling- and read DonnyMac's excellent post. Gents I think our tank (starter kit from PaH), is 29l. Had 4 inhabitants (2 fish, 2 mini-shrimp) now due to the toxic water only has 1 (fish). No mention of cycling the tank from PaH so that's a bit late,
What can be done to help the survivor?
Although i'm afraid to say if you have lost 3 fish already there is probably a fair amount of (unseen) damage done to the little survivor and can expect a shorter life expectancy (think of a human inhaling toxic amounts of pollution).
Remember P@H are not going to tell you about cycling- and if they do, they will not explain it properly- their business is to sell fish and equipment.
We cannot link to other forums here, but Google tropical fish forums, they is a wealth of knowledge out there!
jonlk said:
OP - apologies for the hijack,
Gents I think our tank (starter kit from PaH), is 29l. Had 4 inhabitants (2 fish, 2 mini-shrimp) now due to the toxic water only has 1 (fish). No mention of cycling the tank from PaH so that's a bit late,
What can be done to help the survivor?
No worries, hijack away if it helps you out, there are( as always ) some incredibly knowledgeable people on phGents I think our tank (starter kit from PaH), is 29l. Had 4 inhabitants (2 fish, 2 mini-shrimp) now due to the toxic water only has 1 (fish). No mention of cycling the tank from PaH so that's a bit late,
What can be done to help the survivor?
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