Dogs fighting - decision time.

[so called]

We have made a big mistake in getting two male pups.
Firstly a 12 week old Huskey / Malamute cross and then a couple of weeks later a 12 week old English Bulldog.
Things were fine but then I made the first mistake.
From previous experience with Bulldogs, I bought George, the Bulldog, a scateboard.
All hell broke loose when the Huskey tried to play with it.
Since then there have been a number if fights. Both dogs have been snipped but that has not stopped the problem.
We have a professional trainer teaching us techniques to prevent the aggression but its now getting worse.
Ten days ago while I was in Germany with my Wife, the dogs had another set to, during which my daughter suffered quite a serious bite to her hand from George.
Today, they have had another do and George has ripped my leg open.
It has been George's aggression every time and it has now reached an unacceptable level.
Two visits to hospital inventory days.
My son and girlfriend over for Christmas with our first grandchild. This is totally not acceptable.
Sad to say George has to go.

[so called]

S800VXR said:

That's quite a paring of dominant dogs there. Our EBD is soft as muck but completely un-submissive to any other dog which is fine so long as they don't try to be top dog.
Difficult decision but Better now before something serious happens.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.
We've had Two EBD's in the past, one of which was a wonderful and very powerful dog.
Unfortunately we had never experienced their behaviour with a second dog.
Our trainer is convinced that he will be able to train the problem out.

The mistake has been ours.

[so called]

The trainer is seeing and dealing with the dogs personnally along with teaching my daughter various techniques.
They are both approaching 12 months old.
The training has been going very well and controlled a number of issues.
The only cause now appears to be 'dog treats' which are banned, although my daughter thinks otherwise.
The treat that caused this last issue was from my sons dog, left in the garden after their visit.
I took the treat off him, hand in mouth, no problem. It then appeared that either he was simple really angry and attacked the Hus/Mal or thought that Hus/Mal had the treat.
Either way, my daughter was holding the H/M collar and I grabbed the bulldog collar and pulled him back.
Unfortunately I then lost my balance, face planted a window sill (big fat lip) and while still down the bulldog sank his teeth into the nearest target, my upper thigh.
Lesson learned, it will now be a big stick on fight night.

[so called]

lovechild said:

so called said:

Lesson learned, it will now be a big stick on fight night.

Not entirely sure what you mean by this but it sounds like the wrong attitude. Forgive me for being critical, but when dogs are given up due to issues it's someone else who then has to try and work with their problems or ultimately accompany them to the vets table. Again I speak from experience.

Yes, sorry, reads quite badly. What I was trying to say is that I will be following as advised above and won't be getting between them in future.
A hard slap doesn't really register with a bulldog. They tend to look over their shoulder at you with a 'what do you want' expression.

The sadness of the situation is that both dogs are very affectionate and a pleasure to be with when all's well.
The bulldog, without the dominance challenge from another dog, I'm sure would make someone a great companion, as with our previous bulldog.

The trainer is coming round in a few days for a chat.
As said, options are very limited.

[so called]

Turn7 said:

ikarl said:

Agree with this in the most.....my neighbour took a swing at her dog the other day because it went for another dog, it's not been away from her side since. Dogs need to know who's boss

Mate, you are pushing my patience. You are clearly a dog hater, so in simple words that you may just understand - why dont you just fk off ???

You are not welcome here.

As the OP I have appreciated all of the replies and advise I've received with the exception of yours.
If you have read all of the comments then you will see a broad spectrum of views on my situation and of dog control and all voiced respectfully.
I certainly don't disagree that dogs need to know who's boss, which I believe is the one common theme.
It's how to go about it that differs.

If you have a construction opinion on dog training, control or maybe my situation, its more than welcome.

Edited by so called on Monday 29th December 22:56

[so called]

zygalski said:

Aah, the classical English countryside sound of dogs fighting in a back garden at all hours.
Thread title should be changed.... Kings of the Council Estate.

Well done, yes, I do live in the countryside

[so called]

Hooli said:

lovechild said:

Jasandjules said:

If you are rehoming a bulldog, I suspect there will be a fair few people quite happy to take him off your hands and give him a home with no children/dogs.

100%

Does he get on with bhes?

My Wife and Daughter are watching my reply very closely here so I'll be careful and I should comment on the removal of part of his wedding tackle.
Apart from the Bulldog and Hus/Mal, we have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who is seen by the two muscle dogs as the leader of their little clan.
A few weeks back we lost our sweet little girl CKCS after 10 years. The two young dogs gave her a little too much attention but I would say yes he was fine with a female of the species around.
Our past experience of having a dog and a bh has been without problems other than lots of yappy pups

[so called]

ruff'n'smov said:

rhinochopig said:

Out of interest OP are your family clearly the dominant alphas?

i.e. do you:

• Ignore them both until they are calm when you first come down in a morning?
• Eat before they do?
• Make them wait for you to go through doors first?
• Don't fuss them before leaving?
• Ignore them for a little while on your return?
• Insist they ALWAYs comply with your commands?
• Always reward good behaviour?
• Etc.

One of the issues may be that they are vying for alpha status as they do not see you or your family in that role?

Just a thought.

I couldn't agree more with this. The Bull dog is developing to be the dominant member of the entire family. When he first inflicted damage to your daughter then getting a second chance to inflict same damage on you has given him that opportunity.

Hope you get it sorted OP

My responses to the list, for myself, Wife and daughter are all positive, maybe with the exception regarding feeding as they are normally fed outside and don't see us eat. On the occasions they are inside and we eat, they get nothing.

The bulldog as with all of the digs, is made to wait/leave food, toys etc until given permission.
The issue of dominance from my eyes is between the two dogs.
The bulldog is constantly gesturing his dominance over the Hus/Mal.
Both mine and my Daughters injuries have been due to 'getting in between' during the fight.
As pointed out on here, this is the mistake we have made.

I am very confident that the bulldog would be fine if he was our only dog.

[so called]

Hooli said:

It was just an idle thought as I've always wanted a Bulldog & we've got a Staffy bh. Not really the right time though as we restoring a house so a bit busy to deal with dogs.

Hi Hooli,
I've noted what you say.

We haven't made our decision just yet.
The Trainer is coming round on Tuesday next week so maybe things will be a bit clearer then ????
I'm realising what a horrible situation this is.
Had two trips to hospital but after 6 days, definite signs of healing.
Which is in line with my attitude towards George.
I can't deny that I love the dog and I'm pretty fed up about it.
Bit miffed that we've received some pressure from my son and his girlfriend because if their concern for our 6 month old grandson. For when they visit.
Still, their position is understandable under the circumstances.

[so called]

Jasandjules said:

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

Yes but there are some over emotionals going on I'm afraid.

[so called]

bexVN said:

so called said:

Jasandjules said:

When they visit, he can be put in the kitchen?

Yes but there are some over emotionals going on I'm afraid.

The stories we read may be rare occurrences but will cause an understandable concern for parents of a young child, esp if you are entering a house with a dog known for aggression (whatever the trigger). Shut in the kitchen only works if everyone shuts the kitchen door. Tbh a dog crate would be more secure and reassuring. Having a young baby myself (and a 4yr old) I would also have concerns even though I am experienced with dogs etc.

Absolutely agree that "he's outside" or "he's in the kitchen" is not sufficiently secure.
We have a dog crate which he sleeps in every night.
I guess this sounds a little cruel but be loves his bed and by 10:00 pm he's letting us know ge wants to go to bed

I'll be having a chat with my son next week after the meeting with the trainer.

[so called]

Just to add an update, the Trainer called last week and so we had a good chat about what to do.
We've decided to continue with the training but this will be more intensive for George and both dogs are attending additional weekly obedience classes so lets see how it goes.

They've been all sweetness and light since the last set to.

Company firewall blocking me posting images right now but will try later.

Thanks again for all of the advice.
Tony.

[so called]

Well they kicked off again today
I'm driving back from Germany so don't know the detail but will be calling the Trainer again when I get home.
......deep breath.......count to 10.......... Etc., etc.

[so called]

In between the occasional scrap, they are best of friends.


Lending a paw in the garden.


Arn' I handsome

[so called]

Jasandjules said:

So how are they?

The all day session with the Trainer is later this week.
They started to kick off this evening but responded well to my daughters command so quite please about that.

I'll update in a few weeks but just to add that I've decided that any further problems resulting in any more hospital visits will mean that one of them will be going.

[so called]

Jasandjules said:

Have you removed all toys?

The dont seem to start over toys anymore which appears to be due to the control that the training has introduced.

elephantstone said:

I find mine only properly kick off when theres a new toy or something tasty. If it does get nasty i shout "NO" which they now know as "dont push it" and they lick eachother to say sorry.

Having said the above, something tasty has been the reason for the last two occasions.
Our two lick each other after as well. "NO" is our chosen command, just got to get it through to them.

Interesting to read such a similar situation. Thanks.

[so called]

Jasandjules said:

Food is the issue? Is that one approaching the other whilst they are eating?

Or is it one "guarding" food such as your plate? Then attacking the other for coming near?

Hi Jasandjules, no, feeding time is not an issue. They are told "no" as far as approaching each others at feeding time and we haven't had a problem here at all.
Actually we don't let them lick each others bowls after feeding, just bring the bowls straight in for cleaning.

If treats are given out, its done in a very controlled way, as per the Trainers instructions.

The problem the other day was a particularly 'tasty Treat' of the rodent family.
We have fields front and back but there are developers building new houses directly across the road. This has stirred up some of the local wild life who occasionally come into our garden.