Anyones spouse got an Irish passport?
Discussion
I used my newly issued Irish passport for the first time back in December.
Was so nice to avoid the very long UK passport holders queue at Spanish immigration and be waved over to the EU side to be through in seconds
Obviously by the time my baggage arrived on the belt we had all caught up with eachother
Was so nice to avoid the very long UK passport holders queue at Spanish immigration and be waved over to the EU side to be through in seconds
Obviously by the time my baggage arrived on the belt we had all caught up with eachother
Steviesam said:
WhiskyDisco-We have run into our first hiccup with the application process!
Wifes father was born in Belfast. We have his birth, marriage and death certificate so ready to go.
First issue-first page on the on line application asks for the County of the parents birth....but there is no option for Belfast in the drop down list.
Did you apply online? If so how did you do it?
Many thanks
The county is Antrim I believe.Wifes father was born in Belfast. We have his birth, marriage and death certificate so ready to go.
First issue-first page on the on line application asks for the County of the parents birth....but there is no option for Belfast in the drop down list.
Did you apply online? If so how did you do it?
Many thanks
worsy said:
Related question if anyone knows.
An EU national travelling with non family UK passport only travellers, can they all go down the short queue?
Strictly speaking it is only a legally married spouse or a legal registered civil partner, plus children under 21.An EU national travelling with non family UK passport only travellers, can they all go down the short queue?
However my wife never took my last name, and although when her passport is renewed we will use the ‘also known as’ option on it in future so it matches my Irish passport, so far there have been no issues from the EU border guards presenting passports with two names - only one said “you have to be married” and that was after processing the passports and I did have a scan ready of the marriage certificate on my phone ready if needed.
However I strongly doubt that it would work for your parents, cousins, or just friends or work colleagues if you tried taking them with you into the EU queue.
My mum has recently recieved her Irish passport, Her Grandparents were Irish therefore qualified for an Irish Passport. It helps them massively as they travel to Spain/Portugal on their motorhome for months of the year, and thus get around the 180day/year rule.
My question is..... By my mum having an Irish passport, does that entitle me or my sister to apply for one?, how far down the line can you apply for one, anyone know?
My question is..... By my mum having an Irish passport, does that entitle me or my sister to apply for one?, how far down the line can you apply for one, anyone know?
weeve said:
You might have just blown my tiny mind. My wife and kids are Scandi's. Didnt know the 90 day thing variation. Its not been an issue hence I never thought to check, but in some way this makes me feel better even if I doubt I will have course to use it.
Neither did I immediately following 2016, so thought there was no point in applying for Irish citizenship if we couldn’t benefit together - we did look into her history but it was her great grandmother who was born in Ireland which is too far back.Then I saw a random mention of it on the internet in 2020 and finally got my application in during 2021.
If you want confirmation the EU border guard manual mentions it here in 2.1.2 -
https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-1...
Gazzas86 said:
My mum has recently recieved her Irish passport, Her Grandparents were Irish therefore qualified for an Irish Passport. It helps them massively as they travel to Spain/Portugal on their motorhome for months of the year, and thus get around the 180day/year rule.
My question is..... By my mum having an Irish passport, does that entitle me or my sister to apply for one?, how far down the line can you apply for one, anyone know?
Unfortunately for you the answer is no.My question is..... By my mum having an Irish passport, does that entitle me or my sister to apply for one?, how far down the line can you apply for one, anyone know?
Had your mother applied for Irish citizenship through the grandparent route *before* you were born then because she would have been an Irish citizen at that point in time then you could apply for one, you being born to an Irish parent.
But as she didn’t apply and wasn’t an Irish citizen at the time of your birth you can’t.
PF62 said:
Unfortunately for you the answer is no.
Had your mother applied for Irish citizenship through the grandparent route *before* you were born then because she would have been an Irish citizen at that point in time then you could apply for one, you being born to an Irish parent.
But as she didn’t apply and wasn’t an Irish citizen at the time of your birth you can’t.
Same problem. I'd love my kids to have an EU passport but I didn't get mine until well after they were born.Had your mother applied for Irish citizenship through the grandparent route *before* you were born then because she would have been an Irish citizen at that point in time then you could apply for one, you being born to an Irish parent.
But as she didn’t apply and wasn’t an Irish citizen at the time of your birth you can’t.
Brexit prompted me so if I'd seen the future I would have applied back before 1999.
PF62 said:
worsy said:
Related question if anyone knows.
An EU national travelling with non family UK passport only travellers, can they all go down the short queue?
Strictly speaking it is only a legally married spouse or a legal registered civil partner, plus children under 21.An EU national travelling with non family UK passport only travellers, can they all go down the short queue?
However my wife never took my last name, and although when her passport is renewed we will use the ‘also known as’ option on it in future so it matches my Irish passport, so far there have been no issues from the EU border guards presenting passports with two names - only one said “you have to be married” and that was after processing the passports and I did have a scan ready of the marriage certificate on my phone ready if needed.
However I strongly doubt that it would work for your parents, cousins, or just friends or work colleagues if you tried taking them with you into the EU queue.
PF62 said:
weeve said:
You might have just blown my tiny mind. My wife and kids are Scandi's. Didnt know the 90 day thing variation. Its not been an issue hence I never thought to check, but in some way this makes me feel better even if I doubt I will have course to use it.
Neither did I immediately following 2016, so thought there was no point in applying for Irish citizenship if we couldn’t benefit together - we did look into her history but it was her great grandmother who was born in Ireland which is too far back.Then I saw a random mention of it on the internet in 2020 and finally got my application in during 2021.
If you want confirmation the EU border guard manual mentions it here in 2.1.2 -
https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-1...
My wife's family are also Scandinavian and her parents are both married to UK citizens and they have absolutely fallen foul of the 90/180 day rule, to the point that my MiL's husband was banned from entering any Schengen country last year as he'd overstayed on a previous visit and had to miss a very important business trip which my MiL had to attend alone. Both sets of parents are very worldly wise and have worked all over the world, continue to do and they absolutely watch the 90/180 day clock like hawks. I'm absolutely staggered they would not know this, and potentially you've blown my mind too.
JQ said:
PF62 said:
weeve said:
You might have just blown my tiny mind. My wife and kids are Scandi's. Didnt know the 90 day thing variation. Its not been an issue hence I never thought to check, but in some way this makes me feel better even if I doubt I will have course to use it.
Neither did I immediately following 2016, so thought there was no point in applying for Irish citizenship if we couldn’t benefit together - we did look into her history but it was her great grandmother who was born in Ireland which is too far back.Then I saw a random mention of it on the internet in 2020 and finally got my application in during 2021.
If you want confirmation the EU border guard manual mentions it here in 2.1.2 -
https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-1...
My wife's family are also Scandinavian and her parents are both married to UK citizens and they have absolutely fallen foul of the 90/180 day rule, to the point that my MiL's husband was banned from entering any Schengen country last year as he'd overstayed on a previous visit and had to miss a very important business trip which my MiL had to attend alone. Both sets of parents are very worldly wise and have worked all over the world, continue to do and they absolutely watch the 90/180 day clock like hawks. I'm absolutely staggered they would not know this, and potentially you've blown my mind too.
To quote from the opening part of the section of the EU document I posted with my bolding -
In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up to three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.
The mention of three months is because if you are in any single EU country for more than three months you should register for residency, but don't need to if it is less than that and so we are just looking at the normal 90/180 day rules.
And then take a look at the examples in that section, with again my bolding -
*Examples (in all these examples, the third country national s not in possession of a valid residence card or a residence permit as further explained in point 2.8 of this Section):
An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.
So this isn't a French citizen bringing their non-French spouse to France, it is living in other parts of the EU for eight months (but no more than three months in any one country) and so way way beyond the 90 in 180 days.
and then this one to show you don't have to travel together.
A Chinese citizen married to a Swedish citizen spends alone, for business purposes, 15 days in Austria.
The Swedish citizen then joins him and they spend one month in Portugal.
Just after that month, the Swedish spouse leaves the EU.
The Chinese citizen can remain alone for the remaining 75 days in the 180 day period (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period applies, but the stay performed together with the EU citizen should not be counted (in this example, the one month period) when assessing the respect of the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period)
That one shows that whenever the EU spouse is in the EU at the same time as the non-EU spouse that the 90 day clock doesn't run.
Now the problem is that the EU border guards, and frankly the EU citizens, need to know all of this - and it is damn difficult to find.
If you want chapter and verse on the EU law itself, I can provide it (although there are references to it in the Border guard's manual).
I've got an Irish Passport application in the system from about 6 months ago, due to having a Grandmother born in Ireland. My mother and several of her siblings went through the process OK, but it takes time. It does stop with me though, so no way my kids can get one.
I went for it more for retirement planning, as we have vague plans to move somewhere warmer and ideally more tax friendly in a few years and the EU passport makes that much easier.
It would be useful for the EU passport queues as well, but actually we haven't generally had big problems recently. We did 7 trips to the EU last year and one so far this year and the passport queue has been minimal on 7 out of 8 of them. The only time it would have been helpful was arriving at Barcelona on a Sunday to find they had two passport staff serving about 200 people in the non-EU queue, which took an hour.
I went for it more for retirement planning, as we have vague plans to move somewhere warmer and ideally more tax friendly in a few years and the EU passport makes that much easier.
It would be useful for the EU passport queues as well, but actually we haven't generally had big problems recently. We did 7 trips to the EU last year and one so far this year and the passport queue has been minimal on 7 out of 8 of them. The only time it would have been helpful was arriving at Barcelona on a Sunday to find they had two passport staff serving about 200 people in the non-EU queue, which took an hour.
PF62 said:
JQ said:
PF62 said:
weeve said:
You might have just blown my tiny mind. My wife and kids are Scandi's. Didnt know the 90 day thing variation. Its not been an issue hence I never thought to check, but in some way this makes me feel better even if I doubt I will have course to use it.
Neither did I immediately following 2016, so thought there was no point in applying for Irish citizenship if we couldn’t benefit together - we did look into her history but it was her great grandmother who was born in Ireland which is too far back.Then I saw a random mention of it on the internet in 2020 and finally got my application in during 2021.
If you want confirmation the EU border guard manual mentions it here in 2.1.2 -
https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-1...
My wife's family are also Scandinavian and her parents are both married to UK citizens and they have absolutely fallen foul of the 90/180 day rule, to the point that my MiL's husband was banned from entering any Schengen country last year as he'd overstayed on a previous visit and had to miss a very important business trip which my MiL had to attend alone. Both sets of parents are very worldly wise and have worked all over the world, continue to do and they absolutely watch the 90/180 day clock like hawks. I'm absolutely staggered they would not know this, and potentially you've blown my mind too.
To quote from the opening part of the section of the EU document I posted with my bolding -
In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up to three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.
The mention of three months is because if you are in any single EU country for more than three months you should register for residency, but don't need to if it is less than that and so we are just looking at the normal 90/180 day rules.
And then take a look at the examples in that section, with again my bolding -
*Examples (in all these examples, the third country national s not in possession of a valid residence card or a residence permit as further explained in point 2.8 of this Section):
An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.
So this isn't a French citizen bringing their non-French spouse to France, it is living in other parts of the EU for eight months (but no more than three months in any one country) and so way way beyond the 90 in 180 days.
and then this one to show you don't have to travel together.
A Chinese citizen married to a Swedish citizen spends alone, for business purposes, 15 days in Austria.
The Swedish citizen then joins him and they spend one month in Portugal.
Just after that month, the Swedish spouse leaves the EU.
The Chinese citizen can remain alone for the remaining 75 days in the 180 day period (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period applies, but the stay performed together with the EU citizen should not be counted (in this example, the one month period) when assessing the respect of the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period)
That one shows that whenever the EU spouse is in the EU at the same time as the non-EU spouse that the 90 day clock doesn't run.
Now the problem is that the EU border guards, and frankly the EU citizens, need to know all of this - and it is damn difficult to find.
If you want chapter and verse on the EU law itself, I can provide it (although there are references to it in the Border guard's manual).
croyde said:
So can any of my children stay with me in Europe for up to 3 months solid without falling foul of the 90/180?
Yes if they are aged under 21Directive 2004/38/EC covers freedom of movement and that is relevant since if your family cannot spend time with you in the EU then *your* freedom of movement as an EU citizen is restricted -
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?ur...
‘family member’ means:
(a) the spouse;
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted a registered partnership, on the basis of the legislation of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the conditions laid down in the relevant legislation of the host Member State;
(c) the direct descendants who are under the age of 21 or are dependants and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);
(d) the dependent direct relatives in the ascending line and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);
weeve said:
You might have just blown my tiny mind. My wife and kids are Scandi's. Didnt know the 90 day thing variation. Its not been an issue hence I never thought to check, but in some way this makes me feel better even if I doubt I will have course to use it.
Helpful, thanks
'closes PH, phones kids school to say its going to be home school by mum and dad for a year, stops to buy campervan and drives East'
My other half is also Scandi. Strictly speaking, even EU citizens staying in another country should register within 90 days as I understand it. However, if the intention is to travel from one country to the next then that wouldn’t apply in your example. Helpful, thanks
'closes PH, phones kids school to say its going to be home school by mum and dad for a year, stops to buy campervan and drives East'
Shnozz said:
Strictly speaking, even EU citizens staying in another country should register within 90 days as I understand it. However, if the intention is to travel from one country to the next then that wouldn’t apply in your example.
Art 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC gives any EU citizen (and their family) a right to reside in any other EU country for up to three months without needing to do anything.So yes there is no need to register for residency or do anything else if you are moving country to country and not spending more than a continuous three months in any of them, even if the total time spent in EU countries other than your country of EU citizenship is more than three months, e.g. Irish citizen spending three months in Spain then three months in Portugal then three months in Italy then three months in France, etc. etc. is absolutely fine.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?ur...
PF62 said:
worsy said:
Related question if anyone knows.
An EU national travelling with non family UK passport only travellers, can they all go down the short queue?
Strictly speaking it is only a legally married spouse or a legal registered civil partner, plus children under 21.An EU national travelling with non family UK passport only travellers, can they all go down the short queue?
However my wife never took my last name, and although when her passport is renewed we will use the ‘also known as’ option on it in future so it matches my Irish passport, so far there have been no issues from the EU border guards presenting passports with two names - only one said “you have to be married” and that was after processing the passports and I did have a scan ready of the marriage certificate on my phone ready if needed.
However I strongly doubt that it would work for your parents, cousins, or just friends or work colleagues if you tried taking them with you into the EU queue.
Her passport has a different surname to mine (UK) as she hasn't changed it yet but I do have the Marriage certificate.
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