Bradford- lost for words
Discussion
vinnie83 said:
My cousins kids who are 10 can only understand Gujarati not speak it, and that's only because the grandparents don't speak English much or well....
Give it another generation, maybe two, and it will probably be largely forgotten.
Mine are pretty much the same. Grandad can speak fluent English, it's only grandma that struggles......Give it another generation, maybe two, and it will probably be largely forgotten.
NomduJour said:
vinnie83 said:
From the young graduates, very many are not white... I dread to think what some people think of us - bloody immigrants coming here and stealing the well paid jobs (!)
I seem to remember from prep school that there was a serious amount of paternal pressure (i.e. you might be nine, but this is what you are going to do) put on the Indian and Pakistani kids to go into the professions with a decent guaranteed wage. The point I was making however was, regardless of the reasons why there aren't enough UK born medics, and that includes non whites... So to those saying immigration and multiculturalism is bad full stop, how can you defend the fact that there's a clear area - healthcare - that would crumble without immigrants and the offspring of immigrants....
I recall an earlier post in response from Jimbop saying "If we took away foreign doctors etc from the NHS then it would be something this country would have to overcome."
How convenient an answer! We just would! Because! Just!
I've seen more thought out responses from my 10 year old nephews!
vinnie83 said:
There is certainly a lot of that, but that in itself results in high achievers in minorities.
The point I was making however was, regardless of the reasons why there aren't enough UK born medics, and that includes non whites... So to those saying immigration and multiculturalism is bad full stop, how can you defend the fact that there's a clear area - healthcare - that would crumble without immigrants and the offspring of immigrants....
I recall an earlier post in response from Jimbop saying "If we took away foreign doctors etc from the NHS then it would be something this country would have to overcome."
How convenient an answer! We just would! Because! Just!
I've seen more thought out responses from my 10 year old nephews!
It's from the Alex Salmond school of debating.The point I was making however was, regardless of the reasons why there aren't enough UK born medics, and that includes non whites... So to those saying immigration and multiculturalism is bad full stop, how can you defend the fact that there's a clear area - healthcare - that would crumble without immigrants and the offspring of immigrants....
I recall an earlier post in response from Jimbop saying "If we took away foreign doctors etc from the NHS then it would be something this country would have to overcome."
How convenient an answer! We just would! Because! Just!
I've seen more thought out responses from my 10 year old nephews!
The very worst thing about Bradford is trying to get from one side to the other, apart from the addition of 5000 sets of traffic lights the road system hasn't changed since the 1800s, it generally takes about 45 to 60 mins to get across from one outlying BD postcode to another. You queue all the way in, through the centre and out the other side. I probably wouldn't feel so bad about it if I hadn't sat stationary looking at it for so many years!
Bradford appears to be on fire, the smoke and heat rather than the damage to the buildings gave it away.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-2955193...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-2955193...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Someone was arrested and charged for arson, surprisingly not linked with the owners thoughhttp://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29454663
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It had been redeveloped, 8 years ago I think, and sat empty aside from a few "art exhibitions" - they arrested a chap last week for setting it on fire, I'm not sure what his motivation was but it's hard to argue with the site being in a prominent location and ripe for redevelopment into something the old building wouldn't have.I think the phrase "Lost an empire, and still trying to find a role" springs to mind for many northern cities where wealth was based on the industrial revolution. You could probably argue the same about some scottish cities and shipbuilding, or welsh/nortern cities and coal.
Leeds became a financial city, other outlying areas like Ilkley/Harrogate became havens for the wealthy.
The percentage listed as asian is probably held in check by the number of white immigrants from Poland!
From what I see there's a heirarchy of immigrants from asian countries too.
Indian > Pakistani > Mirpuri Pakistani - and that's from what asians tell me.
When the Mangla Dam was constructed in the 60s, there was mass immigration by rural Mirpuri who were generally seen as poorly educated villagers. The UK would benefit from cheap labour.
It seems that there's the culture clash here of the Mirpuri being very family/village orientated thus continuing practises such as honour killings, FGM, first cousin marriage, child sexploitation etc - things that only now the police and other authorites are finally admitting happen. Before, it was hushed up for "community relations".
I believe back in the 70s there was a vocal teacher Ray Honeyford who highlighted the asian ghettoes that were being formed by the Mirpuri village elders - he was hounded out.
NHS studies into first cousin marriage and increased birth defects were all hushed up for fear of outraging the asian community.
The police quite often consult with elders before conducting raids so as not to incite a riot.
There's also a massive tolerance of overcrowding with multigenerational families squeezing into terrace houses that should only hold 4-5 people, but have 10+.
Links to Pakistan mean there's also major links to drug producing areas, and that is seen as a fast way of making money with little risk.
You have the large white chav estates round the edges too so it's not just asians.
On the other hand you do have Indian and Pakistani immigrants who want to make a go of things, and want their families to integrate.
What's the answer?
I guess you need several generations for the elders to die and for their offspring to marry outside their own small social circle of first cousins - problem is the elders have so much power the young bucks want that power and want to keep the status quo.
Maybe limit benefits to one or two children.
Pathfinder program of inner city slum clearance?
I guess this sounds racist, but then we are talking race.
If one side unilaterally decides not to integrate, what can you do?
Leeds became a financial city, other outlying areas like Ilkley/Harrogate became havens for the wealthy.
The percentage listed as asian is probably held in check by the number of white immigrants from Poland!
From what I see there's a heirarchy of immigrants from asian countries too.
Indian > Pakistani > Mirpuri Pakistani - and that's from what asians tell me.
When the Mangla Dam was constructed in the 60s, there was mass immigration by rural Mirpuri who were generally seen as poorly educated villagers. The UK would benefit from cheap labour.
It seems that there's the culture clash here of the Mirpuri being very family/village orientated thus continuing practises such as honour killings, FGM, first cousin marriage, child sexploitation etc - things that only now the police and other authorites are finally admitting happen. Before, it was hushed up for "community relations".
I believe back in the 70s there was a vocal teacher Ray Honeyford who highlighted the asian ghettoes that were being formed by the Mirpuri village elders - he was hounded out.
NHS studies into first cousin marriage and increased birth defects were all hushed up for fear of outraging the asian community.
The police quite often consult with elders before conducting raids so as not to incite a riot.
There's also a massive tolerance of overcrowding with multigenerational families squeezing into terrace houses that should only hold 4-5 people, but have 10+.
Links to Pakistan mean there's also major links to drug producing areas, and that is seen as a fast way of making money with little risk.
You have the large white chav estates round the edges too so it's not just asians.
On the other hand you do have Indian and Pakistani immigrants who want to make a go of things, and want their families to integrate.
What's the answer?
I guess you need several generations for the elders to die and for their offspring to marry outside their own small social circle of first cousins - problem is the elders have so much power the young bucks want that power and want to keep the status quo.
Maybe limit benefits to one or two children.
Pathfinder program of inner city slum clearance?
I guess this sounds racist, but then we are talking race.
If one side unilaterally decides not to integrate, what can you do?
To balance the argument you do have a high proportion of kids leaving school with few qualifications and failing in job interviews against recent immigrants.
The dole and a bit of nicking on the side, or drugs/scrap seems to be their limits.
A life of petty crime with a gf up the duff to get a council house.
The State will provide.
The city centere mirror pool seems to attract them, a few tinnies, a few fights, chav heaven.
The dole and a bit of nicking on the side, or drugs/scrap seems to be their limits.
A life of petty crime with a gf up the duff to get a council house.
The State will provide.
The city centere mirror pool seems to attract them, a few tinnies, a few fights, chav heaven.
Sorry to bring this sorry subject to the fore once more, but guess where has been voted the worst place in the UK to live?
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/edinburgh-is-britain-s-b...
The article said:
‘People in Bradford have amongst the lowest gross disposable household incomes of £13,654 a year, yet pay one of the highest average weekly rents of £92.60.
‘The employment rate is low at 65% and there is also a lower than average life expectancy at 77 years and seven months for men and 81 years and four months for women. To top it all, the area suffers from crowded primary schools and just 44% of pupils achieved five GCSEs at A-C grades, at Key Stage 4.’
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/edinburgh-is-britain-s-b...
The article said:
‘People in Bradford have amongst the lowest gross disposable household incomes of £13,654 a year, yet pay one of the highest average weekly rents of £92.60.
‘The employment rate is low at 65% and there is also a lower than average life expectancy at 77 years and seven months for men and 81 years and four months for women. To top it all, the area suffers from crowded primary schools and just 44% of pupils achieved five GCSEs at A-C grades, at Key Stage 4.’
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