Christians on PH?
Discussion
Cupradupra said:
I don't know all the answers to your questions, but that's like saying "I know you didn't get your uni degree due to failing all the exams and coursework, but sure I know you worked pretty hard through those 4 years, so we'll just give you degree anyway even though you didn't do that one vital thing that needs to be done and pass all your exams and coursework"
Actually it isn't, it's like saying "I know you passed all your exams and handed your coursework in on time, but because you won't acknowledge the existance of the Chancellor who you have never seen the entire term, we're not giving you your degree."Cupradupra said:
The Bible tells us we need to put our trust in Jesus to get to Heaven, not just do good works.
Exactly my point, even if you are an exemplary specimen of a human being, you won't get into heaven if you don't believe in Jesus/God.That's pretty s
tty, don't you think? The entire reason we're supposed to be on this planet - according to faith - is to be good and be excellent to each other. Beleiving in the existance of a god is acedemic to that role.kowalski655 said:
But "the Bible tells us" that god DOESNT like gays! And the actions of his appointed representatives on earth mostly supported that until very recently ( and still do with some)
Can you quote the exact passage in the Bible where it tells us that God doesn't like gay people? According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. So is Lying, Stealing etc.... God Hates sin. God Loves the sinner, which we all are.
I have to admit that there are Christians out there who seem to focus on homosexuality as the sin to end all sins, but in God's eyes, all sin is equal.
Jesus tells us to love our neighbor and to treat them as we would want treated, whether they are gay or not.
Cupradupra said:
I have to admit that there are Christians out there who seem to focus on homosexuality as the sin to end all sins, but in God's eyes, all sin is equal.
There are 4 references in the bible to the sin of homosexuality, and 25 references to the sin of eating shellfish. So hard line Christians should be more worried about oyster bars than gay bars.Nanook said:
Cupradupra said:
The Bible tells us we need to put our trust in Jesus to get to Heaven, not just do good works.
So, most evil man that ever lived, murdering rapist, believes in your God and Jesus, dies, goes to heaven, all is forgiven.Then on the other hand, we have people like Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, war heroes, and other general all round great guys that have lived good wholesome lives, looking out for their fellow man, but don't believe in your God and Jesus.
And they're all going to hell?
And you wonder why people don't want to be members of your club? It seems a bit judgemental.
If heaven is the best, never-ending experience ever why not top yourself and jump the queue? Preferably without runing airports or other people's lives I hasten to add, not like those other selfish fellows.
I mean why spend years of god-fearing servitude in this life when that is waiting for you?
My brother converted to Christianity in his late 20s in order to apease his then-girlfriend-now-wife. So thanks to her, he now thinks the rest of his family are going to burn for eternity while he's swanning around in heaven eating solid gold swanburgers while riding a unicorn through a field of rainbows. So for 20 odd years he was quite happy yet thanks to religion if I ask him what is going to happen to me/ his mum, my daughter etc after death, he'd have to spout some medieval nonsense about having red-hot pokers inserted into our anuses. And believe it.
I never would but I'd love to ask him to explain to my 4 year old daughter what will happen to her when she dies. And if he deviates from the Christian teachings in order to sugar the pill he's a fking hypocrite.
While I'm on the subject, why does hell involve burning? It's almost as if 2000 years ago when all this was invented they couldn't think up anything worse. Now we have no end of ways of inflicting pain and misery (the most effective being Coldplay) yet still Hell sticks with it's iron-age methods.
I mean why spend years of god-fearing servitude in this life when that is waiting for you?
My brother converted to Christianity in his late 20s in order to apease his then-girlfriend-now-wife. So thanks to her, he now thinks the rest of his family are going to burn for eternity while he's swanning around in heaven eating solid gold swanburgers while riding a unicorn through a field of rainbows. So for 20 odd years he was quite happy yet thanks to religion if I ask him what is going to happen to me/ his mum, my daughter etc after death, he'd have to spout some medieval nonsense about having red-hot pokers inserted into our anuses. And believe it.
I never would but I'd love to ask him to explain to my 4 year old daughter what will happen to her when she dies. And if he deviates from the Christian teachings in order to sugar the pill he's a f
king hypocrite.While I'm on the subject, why does hell involve burning? It's almost as if 2000 years ago when all this was invented they couldn't think up anything worse. Now we have no end of ways of inflicting pain and misery (the most effective being Coldplay) yet still Hell sticks with it's iron-age methods.
Edited by DrSteveBrule on Wednesday 29th June 16:25
Nanook said:
Jakeztx said:
Well the idea is that we arent really the ones who get to make that decision. So I coudlnt say yes or no to either scenario, however the bible does say that the wages that sin pays is death. (Romans 6:23) As biblically we are all sinners in the basic sense, our death is our recompense. As for who gets the reward of everlasting life (see Romans 6:23 again), that is subject to God's judgement.
On a more serious note, and I'd really appreciate if someone could answer, one of the commandments is love thy neighbour (might not be a commandment, but I'm pretty sure it's on of your 'rules')How far does that extend? When you couple it with the whole 'don't kill people' one, doesn't that kinda make war, and being a soldier, a one way ticket to the hot box?
again, it is not for me or any other human to say on behalf of God what we deem to be acceptable. I certainly wouldn't want to condemn you myself 
Jesus taught to love your neighbour in the sense of treating all people like they are just people like you and I. For me, personally, yes that means that war against other people of any background is not something I would want to play a role in. Nanook said:
Jakeztx said:
Sorry but you really are asking impossible questions again, it is not for me or any other human to say on behalf of God what we deem to be acceptable. I certainly wouldn't want to condemn you myself Jesus taught to love your neighbour in the sense of treating all people like they are just people like you and I. For me, personally, yes that means that war against other people of any background is not something I would want to play a role in.
How can you live by your religion, when you don't know what it wants you to do? again, it is not for me or any other human to say on behalf of God what we deem to be acceptable. I certainly wouldn't want to condemn you myself Jesus taught to love your neighbour in the sense of treating all people like they are just people like you and I. For me, personally, yes that means that war against other people of any background is not something I would want to play a role in. How do I know what God deems acceptable? How does anyone know? Do I need to go higher? Speak to a Minister? A Bishop? The big man Fran himself?
So many questions, and no answers to go with them. This is why I was thrown out of Sunday School.
Jakeztx said:
Nanook said:
Jakeztx said:
Sorry but you really are asking impossible questions again, it is not for me or any other human to say on behalf of God what we deem to be acceptable. I certainly wouldn't want to condemn you myself Jesus taught to love your neighbour in the sense of treating all people like they are just people like you and I. For me, personally, yes that means that war against other people of any background is not something I would want to play a role in.
How can you live by your religion, when you don't know what it wants you to do? again, it is not for me or any other human to say on behalf of God what we deem to be acceptable. I certainly wouldn't want to condemn you myself Jesus taught to love your neighbour in the sense of treating all people like they are just people like you and I. For me, personally, yes that means that war against other people of any background is not something I would want to play a role in. How do I know what God deems acceptable? How does anyone know? Do I need to go higher? Speak to a Minister? A Bishop? The big man Fran himself?
So many questions, and no answers to go with them. This is why I was thrown out of Sunday School.
shakotan said:
Indeed it would, however it would appear that doing that is not sufficient to be rewarded with entry to Heaven at the end of it. You also have to believe in a God and devote a portion of your life to him. Which ironically takes away your time that you could be spending helping our your fellow man.
Your right, according to Jesus you do need to have both Faith and Works. But generally, across the board, being obedient to God (devoting your life to him) will come hand in hand with benefiting others. Jakeztx said:
shakotan said:
Indeed it would, however it would appear that doing that is not sufficient to be rewarded with entry to Heaven at the end of it. You also have to believe in a God and devote a portion of your life to him. Which ironically takes away your time that you could be spending helping our your fellow man.
Your right, according to Jesus you do need to have both Faith and Works. But generally, across the board, being obedient to God (devoting your life to him) will come hand in hand with benefiting others. 
I apologise for the inconvenience that has been cause for me starting the topic, I thought it wouldn't have quite the effect it has had, my short sightedness on thinking that people on PH would be fairly nice has been completely destroyed, if you know how to close a topic let me know
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Jakeztx said:
Your right, according to Jesus you do need to have both Faith and Works. But generally, across the board, being obedient to God (devoting your life to him) will come hand in hand with benefiting others.
Completely fruit loopy.Being an atheist and a doctor I feel that if I wasn't let into the heaven then large quantities of people who helped their fellow man much less than I managed to get in over the top of me, by faith alone.
It would therefore prove that God rates faith or belief higher than actual deeds.
Ergo God places more emphasis on his own worship than us mortals being nice to each other.
So if I end up in hell I will have proven that god is quite a selfish narcissist, and not much of a benevolent omnipotent?
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