Who's 30+ and has no kids through choice?
Discussion
34 and no children here or desire to ever have any. Other people's are just about tolerable for short bursts on the basis that you know that you'll be leaving soon.
Being around them without the possibility of escape and these things that are a drain on your time, attention, phsyical and emotional energy, your finances, all so you can fulfil a biological imperative and feel satisfied that you've passed on your genes so when you die, there's at least something left behind of you - not for me thanks, nor my partner.
I like my life as it is and am not prepared to take a one-way gamble, because if I don't like it - and nothing about spending any significant amount of time with young children has ever done anything to make me think I would suddenly enjoy it just because it shares my genes - it would result in me resenting their existence and the loss of a life I was perfectly content with and not a great childhood/parenting experience for that child, which is grossly unfair on that child and the adult it would become.
It's not the majority opinion or "normal" outlook if you prefer the statistical term, of that I'm abundantly aware. However, nor is it a singular one, there are plenty of childfree people in the world and many different factors informing that life choice.
It's often said you become your own parents, which is fairly logical as that's the most significant template any person usually has for parenting. Becoming either of mine to any degree would not be good for a child either and just spending time with/around children is enough to make me aware that nothing else on earth breaks my patience and enrages me like children can.
So it's not an entirely selfish choice, it's been considered at every level and on balance, decided against. It's best for me, those around me and for the child/ren that will not get to exist this way.
We're constantly told that the world has too many people in it as it is for its available resources, it needs some to make the choice not to breed. It'll reach a point where there comes a "correction" back to a sustainable human population - or none, which might just be better overall for every species that isn't homo sapiens.
A child of mine would not be inheriting a better world than the one I was born into, the same man-made problems exist and persist and without some fairly significant cultural changes, that's how it will be for a long time yet. Me being a genetic cul de sac is no loss to humanity. My siblings too are of similar age and outlook.
Also, I have friends for whom having children wasn't the most wonderful experience of their lives and they would gladly return to their pre-family couple existence - if they could. But they can't, so they just get increasingly bitter about it inside and work hard to retrospectively convinve themselves that they enjoy parenthood, because they now have to. I'd hate to be in that situation.
If that makes me selfish, so be it. I am, in so far as I like to live my life on my own terms and with the consequences of decisions I make. It doesn't affect anybody else's life what I choose to do with my genes.
Becoming and being a parent is a huge responsibility and undertaking. Many who take it on seemingly don't pause to reflect on whether they are suitably well equipped to take it on, financially or emotionally. There have been times I can barely be trusted to be responsible for looking after myself, another life enitrely dependent on mine is too much of an emotional burden/ a responsibility that I'm just not prepared to risk taking on, knowing my own shortcomings.
Being around them without the possibility of escape and these things that are a drain on your time, attention, phsyical and emotional energy, your finances, all so you can fulfil a biological imperative and feel satisfied that you've passed on your genes so when you die, there's at least something left behind of you - not for me thanks, nor my partner.
I like my life as it is and am not prepared to take a one-way gamble, because if I don't like it - and nothing about spending any significant amount of time with young children has ever done anything to make me think I would suddenly enjoy it just because it shares my genes - it would result in me resenting their existence and the loss of a life I was perfectly content with and not a great childhood/parenting experience for that child, which is grossly unfair on that child and the adult it would become.
It's not the majority opinion or "normal" outlook if you prefer the statistical term, of that I'm abundantly aware. However, nor is it a singular one, there are plenty of childfree people in the world and many different factors informing that life choice.
It's often said you become your own parents, which is fairly logical as that's the most significant template any person usually has for parenting. Becoming either of mine to any degree would not be good for a child either and just spending time with/around children is enough to make me aware that nothing else on earth breaks my patience and enrages me like children can.
So it's not an entirely selfish choice, it's been considered at every level and on balance, decided against. It's best for me, those around me and for the child/ren that will not get to exist this way.
We're constantly told that the world has too many people in it as it is for its available resources, it needs some to make the choice not to breed. It'll reach a point where there comes a "correction" back to a sustainable human population - or none, which might just be better overall for every species that isn't homo sapiens.
A child of mine would not be inheriting a better world than the one I was born into, the same man-made problems exist and persist and without some fairly significant cultural changes, that's how it will be for a long time yet. Me being a genetic cul de sac is no loss to humanity. My siblings too are of similar age and outlook.
Also, I have friends for whom having children wasn't the most wonderful experience of their lives and they would gladly return to their pre-family couple existence - if they could. But they can't, so they just get increasingly bitter about it inside and work hard to retrospectively convinve themselves that they enjoy parenthood, because they now have to. I'd hate to be in that situation.
If that makes me selfish, so be it. I am, in so far as I like to live my life on my own terms and with the consequences of decisions I make. It doesn't affect anybody else's life what I choose to do with my genes.
Becoming and being a parent is a huge responsibility and undertaking. Many who take it on seemingly don't pause to reflect on whether they are suitably well equipped to take it on, financially or emotionally. There have been times I can barely be trusted to be responsible for looking after myself, another life enitrely dependent on mine is too much of an emotional burden/ a responsibility that I'm just not prepared to risk taking on, knowing my own shortcomings.
PurpleTurtle said:
R11ysf said:
How do you know that my single life is not 50 times better than yours ever was? How do you know if you had lived my single life you would never have wanted any kids? Oh that's right, you can't. "Fact".
So I can say with 100% definitive clarity that if you'd lived the single life I had you would prefer you didn't have kids. "Fact."
Elementary piece of reasoning.....
So I can say with 100% definitive clarity that if you'd lived the single life I had you would prefer you didn't have kids. "Fact."
Elementary piece of reasoning.....
A bloke splitting hairs on the internet said:
No, YOU can't say this with 100% definitive clarity, because only YOU know what is best for YOU.
I might have lived your life and thought it was absolute s
te, YOU don't know. YOU think YOU do but YOU can't be sure.
Hooray for YOU and YOUR 300 dinners out, well done. YOU can't know whether it's great or ste to have kids because each kid is unique, YOUR kid could be wonderful, they could be the spawn of Beelzebub. I suspect from your tone that they would be pretty bombastic. However YOU will never be in a position to say with absolute certainty because frankly you've taken a punt on what YOU think is best for YOU on the basis of all information available.
For clarity, I was YOU for 20 years then, in the words of the great Mr Jarvis Cocker, something changed.
I decided I might be denying myself something by not having a kid. YOU or I can't possibly say if I was, but at least I will be able to know, for sure, if YOU were right or not in 20 odd years time. You having a speculative guess at MY life now ain't washing. If YOU are right and I am wrong then great, congratulations, YOU've won the internet. Take yourself out for a 301st dinner to celebrate.
I might have lived your life and thought it was absolute s
te, YOU don't know. YOU think YOU do but YOU can't be sure. Hooray for YOU and YOUR 300 dinners out, well done. YOU can't know whether it's great or s
te to have kids because each kid is unique, YOUR kid could be wonderful, they could be the spawn of Beelzebub. I suspect from your tone that they would be pretty bombastic. However YOU will never be in a position to say with absolute certainty because frankly you've taken a punt on what YOU think is best for YOU on the basis of all information available. For clarity, I was YOU for 20 years then, in the words of the great Mr Jarvis Cocker, something changed.
I decided I might be denying myself something by not having a kid. YOU or I can't possibly say if I was, but at least I will be able to know, for sure, if YOU were right or not in 20 odd years time. You having a speculative guess at MY life now ain't washing. If YOU are right and I am wrong then great, congratulations, YOU've won the internet. Take yourself out for a 301st dinner to celebrate.
4941cc said:
34 and no children here or desire to ever have any. Other people's are just about tolerable for short bursts on the basis that you know that you'll be leaving soon.
Being around them without the possibility of escape and these things that are a drain on your time, attention, phsyical and emotional energy, your finances, all so you can fulfil a biological imperative and feel satisfied that you've passed on your genes so when you die, there's at least something left behind of you - not for me thanks, nor my partner.
I like my life as it is and am not prepared to take a one-way gamble, because if I don't like it - and nothing about spending any significant amount of time with young children has ever done anything to make me think I would suddenly enjoy it just because it shares my genes - it would result in me resenting their existence and the loss of a life I was perfectly content with and not a great childhood/parenting experience for that child, which is grossly unfair on that child and the adult it would become.
It's not the majority opinion or "normal" outlook if you prefer the statistical term, of that I'm abundantly aware. However, nor is it a singular one, there are plenty of childfree people in the world and many different factors informing that life choice.
It's often said you become your own parents, which is fairly logical as that's the most significant template any person usually has for parenting. Becoming either of mine to any degree would not be good for a child either and just spending time with/around children is enough to make me aware that nothing else on earth breaks my patience and enrages me like children can.
So it's not an entirely selfish choice, it's been considered at every level and on balance, decided against. It's best for me, those around me and for the child/ren that will not get to exist this way.
We're constantly told that the world has too many people in it as it is for its available resources, it needs some to make the choice not to breed. It'll reach a point where there comes a "correction" back to a sustainable human population - or none, which might just be better overall for every species that isn't homo sapiens.
A child of mine would not be inheriting a better world than the one I was born into, the same man-made problems exist and persist and without some fairly significant cultural changes, that's how it will be for a long time yet. Me being a genetic cul de sac is no loss to humanity. My siblings too are of similar age and outlook.
Also, I have friends for whom having children wasn't the most wonderful experience of their lives and they would gladly return to their pre-family couple existence - if they could. But they can't, so they just get increasingly bitter about it inside and work hard to retrospectively convinve themselves that they enjoy parenthood, because they now have to. I'd hate to be in that situation.
If that makes me selfish, so be it. I am, in so far as I like to live my life on my own terms and with the consequences of decisions I make. It doesn't affect anybody else's life what I choose to do with my genes.
Becoming and being a parent is a huge responsibility and undertaking. Many who take it on seemingly don't pause to reflect on whether they are suitably well equipped to take it on, financially or emotionally. There have been times I can barely be trusted to be responsible for looking after myself, another life enitrely dependent on mine is too much of an emotional burden/ a responsibility that I'm just not prepared to risk taking on, knowing my own shortcomings.
You being paid by the word?Being around them without the possibility of escape and these things that are a drain on your time, attention, phsyical and emotional energy, your finances, all so you can fulfil a biological imperative and feel satisfied that you've passed on your genes so when you die, there's at least something left behind of you - not for me thanks, nor my partner.
I like my life as it is and am not prepared to take a one-way gamble, because if I don't like it - and nothing about spending any significant amount of time with young children has ever done anything to make me think I would suddenly enjoy it just because it shares my genes - it would result in me resenting their existence and the loss of a life I was perfectly content with and not a great childhood/parenting experience for that child, which is grossly unfair on that child and the adult it would become.
It's not the majority opinion or "normal" outlook if you prefer the statistical term, of that I'm abundantly aware. However, nor is it a singular one, there are plenty of childfree people in the world and many different factors informing that life choice.
It's often said you become your own parents, which is fairly logical as that's the most significant template any person usually has for parenting. Becoming either of mine to any degree would not be good for a child either and just spending time with/around children is enough to make me aware that nothing else on earth breaks my patience and enrages me like children can.
So it's not an entirely selfish choice, it's been considered at every level and on balance, decided against. It's best for me, those around me and for the child/ren that will not get to exist this way.
We're constantly told that the world has too many people in it as it is for its available resources, it needs some to make the choice not to breed. It'll reach a point where there comes a "correction" back to a sustainable human population - or none, which might just be better overall for every species that isn't homo sapiens.
A child of mine would not be inheriting a better world than the one I was born into, the same man-made problems exist and persist and without some fairly significant cultural changes, that's how it will be for a long time yet. Me being a genetic cul de sac is no loss to humanity. My siblings too are of similar age and outlook.
Also, I have friends for whom having children wasn't the most wonderful experience of their lives and they would gladly return to their pre-family couple existence - if they could. But they can't, so they just get increasingly bitter about it inside and work hard to retrospectively convinve themselves that they enjoy parenthood, because they now have to. I'd hate to be in that situation.
If that makes me selfish, so be it. I am, in so far as I like to live my life on my own terms and with the consequences of decisions I make. It doesn't affect anybody else's life what I choose to do with my genes.
Becoming and being a parent is a huge responsibility and undertaking. Many who take it on seemingly don't pause to reflect on whether they are suitably well equipped to take it on, financially or emotionally. There have been times I can barely be trusted to be responsible for looking after myself, another life enitrely dependent on mine is too much of an emotional burden/ a responsibility that I'm just not prepared to risk taking on, knowing my own shortcomings.
Late to the party but here goes-
32, nice house + Holidays, No Kids.
Just had a nice long weekend in Ibiza as a spur of the moment thing with the girlfriend and then off to Africa for christmas.
No intention to have kids as after seeing all the crap my brother has to put up with his 3 offspring I can quite happily say no thankyou. This was confirm yesterday flying back from Ibiza when several families and their screaming poo bomb's also shared the flight making it a 2 hour assault on the ears and patience, why nobodies invented a sedative you can give them before boarding a plane is open to question as it would make everyone elses lives much nicer.
32, nice house + Holidays, No Kids.
Just had a nice long weekend in Ibiza as a spur of the moment thing with the girlfriend and then off to Africa for christmas.
No intention to have kids as after seeing all the crap my brother has to put up with his 3 offspring I can quite happily say no thankyou. This was confirm yesterday flying back from Ibiza when several families and their screaming poo bomb's also shared the flight making it a 2 hour assault on the ears and patience, why nobodies invented a sedative you can give them before boarding a plane is open to question as it would make everyone elses lives much nicer.
Kids are quite different when they are on their own with you.
By brother popped round the other day and my normally calm, sweet natured 2yo turned into a little monster who was showing off at any given opportunity; throwing sand, jumping on the sofa with her shoes on, demanding attention etc
So you might see this with the children of your friends and siblings. What you won't necessarily see are the quiet moments of affection or trust that every parent experiences when there isn't an audience. They are the moments parents prize and value. A little call out of "Love you" as you turn to leave a bedroom, or a poignant "thank you" for the smallest of acts. Children are a wonder, but they normally save their most delightful moments for when they feel safe and unguarded - alone with Mum or Dad in my experience.
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it. On reflection perhaps I place much greater value on being a father than many do as a result of my own experiences (lost my Dad when young and nearly lost our daughter when she was one) but I am still surprised by how parenthood is being portrayed as one dimension . As if it's all pooey nappies and tantrums... surely an adult of over 30 years of age is aware there must be more to it than that.
By brother popped round the other day and my normally calm, sweet natured 2yo turned into a little monster who was showing off at any given opportunity; throwing sand, jumping on the sofa with her shoes on, demanding attention etc
So you might see this with the children of your friends and siblings. What you won't necessarily see are the quiet moments of affection or trust that every parent experiences when there isn't an audience. They are the moments parents prize and value. A little call out of "Love you" as you turn to leave a bedroom, or a poignant "thank you" for the smallest of acts. Children are a wonder, but they normally save their most delightful moments for when they feel safe and unguarded - alone with Mum or Dad in my experience.
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it. On reflection perhaps I place much greater value on being a father than many do as a result of my own experiences (lost my Dad when young and nearly lost our daughter when she was one) but I am still surprised by how parenthood is being portrayed as one dimension . As if it's all pooey nappies and tantrums... surely an adult of over 30 years of age is aware there must be more to it than that.
Edited by DoubleSix on Tuesday 19th May 13:14
DoubleSix said:
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it.
I get what you're saying, and understand where you're coming from. Totally.But what you seem to fail to grasp is that some, maybe many, of us have been in a situation where we've had kids in our lives. We've seen and felt that love, those wonderful heart warming moments.
But still, when it comes down to it, I would not choose that for myself. No matter how nice those moments are, how great they make you feel, they do not out weigh the negative aspects for me.
Johnny said:
DoubleSix said:
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it.
I get what you're saying, and understand where you're coming from. Totally.But what you seem to fail to grasp is that some, maybe many, of us have been in a situation where we've had kids in our lives. We've seen and felt that love, those wonderful heart warming moments.
But still, when it comes down to it, I would not choose that for myself. No matter how nice those moments are, how great they make you feel, they do not out weigh the negative aspects for me.
Johnny said:
DoubleSix said:
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it.
I get what you're saying, and understand where you're coming from. Totally.But what you seem to fail to grasp is that some, maybe many, of us have been in a situation where we've had kids in our lives. We've seen and felt that love, those wonderful heart warming moments.
But still, when it comes down to it, I would not choose that for myself. No matter how nice those moments are, how great they make you feel, they do not out weigh the negative aspects for me.
I am the youngest of three so was positively swamped by children for 10 years prior to having my own. There is a world, ney universe, of difference between "having children in you life" and being their primary carer.
DoubleSix said:
Kids are quite different when they are on their own with you.
By brother popped round the other day and my normally calm, sweet natured 2yo turned into a little monster who was showing off at any given opportunity; throwing sand, jumping on the sofa with her shoes on, demanding attention etc
So you might see this with the children of your friends and siblings. What you won't necessarily see are the quiet moments of affection or trust that every parent experiences when there isn't an audience. They are the moments parents prize and value. A little call out of "Love you" as you turn to leave a bedroom, or a poignant "thank you" for the smallest of acts. Children are a wonder, but they normally save their most delightful moments for when they feel safe and unguarded - alone with Mum or Dad in my experience.
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it. On reflection perhaps I place much greater value on being a father than many do as a result of my own experiences (lost my Dad when young and nearly lost our daughter when she was one) but I am still surprised by how parenthood is being portrayed as one dimension . As if it's all pooey nappies and tantrums... surely an adult of over 30 years of age is aware there must be more to it than that.
We do. It's simply that we choose a path in life that positively deselects reproduction.By brother popped round the other day and my normally calm, sweet natured 2yo turned into a little monster who was showing off at any given opportunity; throwing sand, jumping on the sofa with her shoes on, demanding attention etc
So you might see this with the children of your friends and siblings. What you won't necessarily see are the quiet moments of affection or trust that every parent experiences when there isn't an audience. They are the moments parents prize and value. A little call out of "Love you" as you turn to leave a bedroom, or a poignant "thank you" for the smallest of acts. Children are a wonder, but they normally save their most delightful moments for when they feel safe and unguarded - alone with Mum or Dad in my experience.
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it. On reflection perhaps I place much greater value on being a father than many do as a result of my own experiences (lost my Dad when young and nearly lost our daughter when she was one) but I am still surprised by how parenthood is being portrayed as one dimension . As if it's all pooey nappies and tantrums... surely an adult of over 30 years of age is aware there must be more to it than that.
Edited by DoubleSix on Tuesday 19th May 13:14
Johnny said:
DoubleSix said:
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it.
I get what you're saying, and understand where you're coming from. Totally.But what you seem to fail to grasp is that some, maybe many, of us have been in a situation where we've had kids in our lives. We've seen and felt that love, those wonderful heart warming moments.
But still, when it comes down to it, I would not choose that for myself. No matter how nice those moments are, how great they make you feel, they do not out weigh the negative aspects for me.
Of course one sees the positives, but on balance it's still not something I either need or want in my life.
A person can discern whether or not a dog is appropriate for their lifestyle, whether or not they've ever had one before, based upon direct observation over a lifetime to that point of many different animals' behaviours with their owners, good and bad, can see the degree of affection both ways and yet still weigh things up and decide that they don't have the time/energy or inclination to adapt their current lifestyle to devote the required time and effort to looking after and taking care of one.
It's not some great mystery that only dog owners can possibly ever hope to understand, is it? That's with something that if you find that after all you're not suited to it/a dog isn't compatible with the life you want to live, can be rehomed.
Make the wrong decision about having a child to have one and then realise that you're really not cut out for it and you've not only monumentally ballsed up your own life, but that child's too.
One may never know for certain if one actually would have made a brilliant - or even just a "good enough" parent, but if one has enough self-awareness, the odds are much improved in favour of having a good idea whether it's sensible to take that gamble or not.
Babies and young children just don't elicit the usual/expected emotional response in me (even when doing "adorable" things), whether very close family, friends or strangers. The response is more along the lines of "How dull, keep that thing over there please, thank f**k it's being quiet, for the moment at least, must get out of here before that changes...".
A litter of puppies, kittens, pretty much any other non-human animal however and I do derive a warm fuzzy sense of appreciation. It being my own baby *might* improve that reaction somewhat, but I can only see that improving to a familiar indifference at best, not doing a total 180 to full on doting etc.
It works for most people and I'm glad for them and the fulfilment that having children brings them. As ever though, one size does not fit all - which is perfectly fine. It doesn't make those who make different choices to the majority somehow *wrong*.
chryslerben said:
Late to the party but here goes-
No intention to have kids as after seeing all the crap my brother has to put up with his 3 offspring I can quite happily say no thankyou. This was confirm yesterday flying back from Ibiza when several families and their screaming poo bomb's also shared the flight making it a 2 hour assault on the ears and patience, why nobodies invented a sedative you can give them before boarding a plane is open to question as it would make everyone elses lives much nicer.
Oh god, I can relate to this! No intention to have kids as after seeing all the crap my brother has to put up with his 3 offspring I can quite happily say no thankyou. This was confirm yesterday flying back from Ibiza when several families and their screaming poo bomb's also shared the flight making it a 2 hour assault on the ears and patience, why nobodies invented a sedative you can give them before boarding a plane is open to question as it would make everyone elses lives much nicer.
I had a 9hr flight back from Mexico last year that was infested with screaming kids, and I mean SCREAMING!!
Not their fault really, I don't think it's fair on them to be plonked on such a long, overnight flight. It's boring enough for adults, let alone kids.
Parents, take 'em to Cornwall or something in the people carrier ffs!
red_slr said:
Johnny said:
DoubleSix said:
So again, whatever you may think you know about what children entail there is a world you will not see until you are a part of it.
I get what you're saying, and understand where you're coming from. Totally.But what you seem to fail to grasp is that some, maybe many, of us have been in a situation where we've had kids in our lives. We've seen and felt that love, those wonderful heart warming moments.
But still, when it comes down to it, I would not choose that for myself. No matter how nice those moments are, how great they make you feel, they do not out weigh the negative aspects for me.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff