Discussion
I could not stop reading till the end either. Amazing stories.
10p, I respect you. I also hope you are able to do something for Brian, no matter how small.
ZRCliff, glad you made it.
Henry Hoora, you need professional help. Please get it.
ExCon, glad you turned your life around.
PiratePete, sounds like Thailand (care to tell?). Glad you made it out.
Anyone read Shantaram? It's a great read. So is Mr. Nice and Marching Powder. Interesting accounts of prison life, but in light of this thread, they (very wrongly) glorify the criminal lifestyle to some extent.
10pence, please know that you have positively affected my life. I will always be aware of your anguish and the very real and ever-present potential for ruining people's lives. I am going to drive far less aggressively, and I will be much more aware of how others could perceive my driving.
10p, I respect you. I also hope you are able to do something for Brian, no matter how small.
ZRCliff, glad you made it.
Henry Hoora, you need professional help. Please get it.
ExCon, glad you turned your life around.
PiratePete, sounds like Thailand (care to tell?). Glad you made it out.
Anyone read Shantaram? It's a great read. So is Mr. Nice and Marching Powder. Interesting accounts of prison life, but in light of this thread, they (very wrongly) glorify the criminal lifestyle to some extent.
10pence, please know that you have positively affected my life. I will always be aware of your anguish and the very real and ever-present potential for ruining people's lives. I am going to drive far less aggressively, and I will be much more aware of how others could perceive my driving.
Edited by carerra g tea on Monday 31st December 10:38
I don't know if this thread is still alive... no posts for a month. I just found it 3 days ago and it's taken me that long to read it all (I have a life too!).
I have driven (and still do) a number of powerful cars, and motorcycles. So many thoughts and words of previous posters are echoed in my own mind. If I could be permitted to add my two pennorth...
As an experienced motorcycle rider I agree with the comment made by only one other person about stopping distances on a bike. You learn early on that braking on a bend is your last option of however many you have available. Lack of traction, change of momentum and direction of travel all have a bearing on your trajectory. Avoidance of an incident is always given prime importance rather than stopping. In Brians case this clearly was never going to happen. As 10PS has said, his vehicle was blocking both carriageways of the road, and in the brief time available to Brian to evaluate and react to the situation he was out of options before he had time to do anything.
This leads me to my second comment. As I am sure ALL of those who have or do read this thread, driving appropriate to the conditions... It is fine in theory to say "drive in such a way that you can stop in the distance ahead that you see to be clear". In the real world no one does this. In reality, as experienced road users we drive in a way that befits the conditions we face. We do not EXPECT the unexpected. For example (as in the video clip) we may expect to find a stray sheep on a country road. We may expect to find another motorist coming towards us on a narrow lane. We DO NOT expect to find a motorist heading towards us on a motorway, that does not mean it doesn't happen. If the "stopping while clear" maxim were applied, a blind bend on a narrow road in poor visibility, with a gravelly surface would never be attempted!!! We all drive with the expectation that all other road users we may encounter will be driving in an equally cautious way. As a wise man once said to me (My Grandfather), "drive as though it was YOU coming the other way". That advice has stood me in good stead.
Don't get me wrong, I have had my fair share of 'moments' and despite a few whoopsies I have thus far got away with it. 10PS has achieved his aim here and made another road user reflect again on their attitude to driving on the public roads.
I thank all the posters for their courage in revealing (albeit sometimes anonymously) their own experiences in an effort to educate the stubborn motorists (such as myself) who often "know better".
Thank you
edited for sp
I have driven (and still do) a number of powerful cars, and motorcycles. So many thoughts and words of previous posters are echoed in my own mind. If I could be permitted to add my two pennorth...
As an experienced motorcycle rider I agree with the comment made by only one other person about stopping distances on a bike. You learn early on that braking on a bend is your last option of however many you have available. Lack of traction, change of momentum and direction of travel all have a bearing on your trajectory. Avoidance of an incident is always given prime importance rather than stopping. In Brians case this clearly was never going to happen. As 10PS has said, his vehicle was blocking both carriageways of the road, and in the brief time available to Brian to evaluate and react to the situation he was out of options before he had time to do anything.
This leads me to my second comment. As I am sure ALL of those who have or do read this thread, driving appropriate to the conditions... It is fine in theory to say "drive in such a way that you can stop in the distance ahead that you see to be clear". In the real world no one does this. In reality, as experienced road users we drive in a way that befits the conditions we face. We do not EXPECT the unexpected. For example (as in the video clip) we may expect to find a stray sheep on a country road. We may expect to find another motorist coming towards us on a narrow lane. We DO NOT expect to find a motorist heading towards us on a motorway, that does not mean it doesn't happen. If the "stopping while clear" maxim were applied, a blind bend on a narrow road in poor visibility, with a gravelly surface would never be attempted!!! We all drive with the expectation that all other road users we may encounter will be driving in an equally cautious way. As a wise man once said to me (My Grandfather), "drive as though it was YOU coming the other way". That advice has stood me in good stead.
Don't get me wrong, I have had my fair share of 'moments' and despite a few whoopsies I have thus far got away with it. 10PS has achieved his aim here and made another road user reflect again on their attitude to driving on the public roads.
I thank all the posters for their courage in revealing (albeit sometimes anonymously) their own experiences in an effort to educate the stubborn motorists (such as myself) who often "know better".
Thank you
edited for sp
Edited by Gas_Man on Friday 1st February 10:11
Wow, im not getting those 4 hours of my life back, but worth every minute. What a thread!
10ps, wrong place, wrong time, combination of things happened that led to the final outcome, it could have been so different.
There is a thread of mine running in GC at the moment about an accident i was involved in that caused the death of a friend of mine. I was told in no uncertain terms that if the police were to find any evidence that my driving was of a poor standard or that i had done anything silly then "death by dangerous driving" was a distinct possibility.
Luckily for me, all witness statements supported the fact that my driving was fine, i wasnt speeding etc and it was "undue care and attention" that i was finally charged with.
It could have been so different for me, as i have been known to exceed the speed limit on occasion and indeed to drive in a 'spirited' way, at this point, i wasnt.
Excellent write ups, some eye opening stories.
10ps, wrong place, wrong time, combination of things happened that led to the final outcome, it could have been so different.
There is a thread of mine running in GC at the moment about an accident i was involved in that caused the death of a friend of mine. I was told in no uncertain terms that if the police were to find any evidence that my driving was of a poor standard or that i had done anything silly then "death by dangerous driving" was a distinct possibility.
Luckily for me, all witness statements supported the fact that my driving was fine, i wasnt speeding etc and it was "undue care and attention" that i was finally charged with.
It could have been so different for me, as i have been known to exceed the speed limit on occasion and indeed to drive in a 'spirited' way, at this point, i wasnt.
Excellent write ups, some eye opening stories.
BERGS2 said:
wondering - on the back of the chap getting jailed for (albeit very excessive) speeding thread - what life is actually like in prison in Britain in 2007?
on the basis that paedophiles seem to be increasingly getting let off, whilst pensioners are jailed for non-payment of council tax - whether the socio-demographics of those inside have changed of late....
an PHers posting from jail?
open prisons?
my propensity to lawbreak is clearly at its highest for many years - what are the potential consequences?
rent free living for a year or so whilst tring to avoid 'big Dave' in the showers? or living in a underclass comune?
genuinly interested in any experiences fellow PHers may have had.
Alot worse than you'd thinkon the basis that paedophiles seem to be increasingly getting let off, whilst pensioners are jailed for non-payment of council tax - whether the socio-demographics of those inside have changed of late....
an PHers posting from jail?
open prisons?
my propensity to lawbreak is clearly at its highest for many years - what are the potential consequences?
rent free living for a year or so whilst tring to avoid 'big Dave' in the showers? or living in a underclass comune?
genuinly interested in any experiences fellow PHers may have had.
Very very interesting read, I've just spent the last 2 hrs reading this thread. Thinking back to my younger days (I'm only 26) hooning around in my Fiat Uno this could so easily have been my thread. I sometimes scare myself thinking about some of the "manouvers" I have executed between the ages of 18 and 20ish.
Luckily for me a growing sense of maturity, my wife and my daughter keep my mind on getting home in one piece, not that I drive like a granny - we all like to make progress but after my last incident in 2003 I do take more time deliberating and double checking any overtakes etc. I often say to Mrs Monkey "I could have made that one" but I'd rather say that than get it wrong.
This thread was totally worth the read, very thought provoking.
Good luck 10p, although don't ever expect your demons to stop nagging at you.
Monkey Man Out
Luckily for me a growing sense of maturity, my wife and my daughter keep my mind on getting home in one piece, not that I drive like a granny - we all like to make progress but after my last incident in 2003 I do take more time deliberating and double checking any overtakes etc. I often say to Mrs Monkey "I could have made that one" but I'd rather say that than get it wrong.
This thread was totally worth the read, very thought provoking.
Good luck 10p, although don't ever expect your demons to stop nagging at you.
Monkey Man Out
Edited by Death Monkey Man on Monday 10th March 07:44
ypauly said:
mercemployee said:
Best. Thread. EVAR!
+1top respect to all who have dared to purge thier soul to the rest of PH
and i dare to say at some point we could all have been in 10p's position, certainly food for thought
I have read with interest all the postings. Thanks to 10 Pence Short and all.
I have joined to just add a few comments.
Re:
"In the end the prosecution version of events was the only one heard in court,"
An experience of mine.
Quite a few years ago I was the prime witness when a biker rode straight into the side of a transit sized van.
The van driver was prosecuted.
How did this come about?
The incident occurred when I was at a cross roads waiting to cross over a six lane dual carriageway. I was in the middle lane of three waiting at the white line for the lights to change. A large bike arrived on my right in the "Right turn only lane". When the traffic lights changed, as I anticipated, he accelerated quickly with the intention of veering left into "my lane".
Unfortunately for him a van was jumping the lights from our right and he rode straight into the side of the van "fortunately?) behind the front doors.
It was 1200 approx. We were facing North. The road was dry and the weather fine.
After hours of witness statements etc. I spent the morning at the court awaiting the case. At lunchtime I was told to apply for expenses and I was " not required".
This experience has certainly made me question ever being a witness again.
I can only guess my statement was not required as it did not support prosecuting the van driver or a guilty plea was submitted.
I have joined to just add a few comments.
Re:
"In the end the prosecution version of events was the only one heard in court,"
An experience of mine.
Quite a few years ago I was the prime witness when a biker rode straight into the side of a transit sized van.
The van driver was prosecuted.
How did this come about?
The incident occurred when I was at a cross roads waiting to cross over a six lane dual carriageway. I was in the middle lane of three waiting at the white line for the lights to change. A large bike arrived on my right in the "Right turn only lane". When the traffic lights changed, as I anticipated, he accelerated quickly with the intention of veering left into "my lane".
Unfortunately for him a van was jumping the lights from our right and he rode straight into the side of the van "fortunately?) behind the front doors.
It was 1200 approx. We were facing North. The road was dry and the weather fine.
After hours of witness statements etc. I spent the morning at the court awaiting the case. At lunchtime I was told to apply for expenses and I was " not required".
This experience has certainly made me question ever being a witness again.
I can only guess my statement was not required as it did not support prosecuting the van driver or a guilty plea was submitted.
old buffer said:
I have read with interest all the postings. Thanks to 10 Pence Short and all.
I have joined to just add a few comments.
Re:
"In the end the prosecution version of events was the only one heard in court,"
An experience of mine.
Quite a few years ago I was the prime witness when a biker rode straight into the side of a transit sized van.
The van driver was prosecuted.
How did this come about?
The incident occurred when I was at a cross roads waiting to cross over a six lane dual carriageway. I was in the middle lane of three waiting at the white line for the lights to change. A large bike arrived on my right in the "Right turn only lane". When the traffic lights changed, as I anticipated, he accelerated quickly with the intention of veering left into "my lane".
Unfortunately for him a van was jumping the lights from our right and he rode straight into the side of the van "fortunately?) behind the front doors.
It was 1200 approx. We were facing North. The road was dry and the weather fine.
After hours of witness statements etc. I spent the morning at the court awaiting the case. At lunchtime I was told to apply for expenses and I was " not required".
This experience has certainly made me question ever being a witness again.
I can only guess my statement was not required as it did not support prosecuting the van driver or a guilty plea was submitted.
Were you not asked to be a witness for the defense?I have joined to just add a few comments.
Re:
"In the end the prosecution version of events was the only one heard in court,"
An experience of mine.
Quite a few years ago I was the prime witness when a biker rode straight into the side of a transit sized van.
The van driver was prosecuted.
How did this come about?
The incident occurred when I was at a cross roads waiting to cross over a six lane dual carriageway. I was in the middle lane of three waiting at the white line for the lights to change. A large bike arrived on my right in the "Right turn only lane". When the traffic lights changed, as I anticipated, he accelerated quickly with the intention of veering left into "my lane".
Unfortunately for him a van was jumping the lights from our right and he rode straight into the side of the van "fortunately?) behind the front doors.
It was 1200 approx. We were facing North. The road was dry and the weather fine.
After hours of witness statements etc. I spent the morning at the court awaiting the case. At lunchtime I was told to apply for expenses and I was " not required".
This experience has certainly made me question ever being a witness again.
I can only guess my statement was not required as it did not support prosecuting the van driver or a guilty plea was submitted.
This was my only visit to court ever. I was totally ignorant of the processes.
I registered my arrival and just sat waiting there, speaking only to some of the traffic lads until I was told to go. Nobody spoke to me about anything.
Basically I was so teed of with all the effort and time it has cost me I was feeling glad to go even with no loss of income or travel involved.
They had three statements from me, one at the scene, one I posted and a third when I attended a local station. I assumed they did not want to question me about my statements. I would not be so meek another time.
My only other statement to the police was many years earlier in a different era when I was alibiing an innocent friend in a murder investigation which was at the time very scary.( The guilty person was hanged).
I registered my arrival and just sat waiting there, speaking only to some of the traffic lads until I was told to go. Nobody spoke to me about anything.
Basically I was so teed of with all the effort and time it has cost me I was feeling glad to go even with no loss of income or travel involved.
They had three statements from me, one at the scene, one I posted and a third when I attended a local station. I assumed they did not want to question me about my statements. I would not be so meek another time.
My only other statement to the police was many years earlier in a different era when I was alibiing an innocent friend in a murder investigation which was at the time very scary.( The guilty person was hanged).
I'm a bit confused.
From your description, the van driver jumped the lights and the bike t-boned him.
I think the issue of whether the biker was heading straight over or right from the RH lane is moot; he'd surely have hit the van either way due to the van jumping the lights.
Sounds like the right result unless there's something obvious I've missed?
From your description, the van driver jumped the lights and the bike t-boned him.
I think the issue of whether the biker was heading straight over or right from the RH lane is moot; he'd surely have hit the van either way due to the van jumping the lights.
Sounds like the right result unless there's something obvious I've missed?
pdV6 said:
I'm a bit confused.
From your description, the van driver jumped the lights and the bike t-boned him.
I think the issue of whether the biker was heading straight over or right from the RH lane is moot; he'd surely have hit the van either way due to the van jumping the lights.
Sounds like the right result unless there's something obvious I've missed?
I always understood that when the lights turn green, IF the road is clear then proceed. It was so obvious the van was not stopping IF the biker had looked. I looked (as always) stayed put and watched it happen just a few feet in front of my bonnet.From your description, the van driver jumped the lights and the bike t-boned him.
I think the issue of whether the biker was heading straight over or right from the RH lane is moot; he'd surely have hit the van either way due to the van jumping the lights.
Sounds like the right result unless there's something obvious I've missed?
In my opinion the biker was far from innocent. I think he was in a hurry and switched of his survival part of his brain.
My local lights controlled cross road has a red light camera ( usually not working). The red light jumping is awful. It is only the slightly uphil start that avoids a big smash.
Catz said:
old buffer said:
My only other statement to the police was many years earlier in a different era when I was alibiing an innocent friend in a murder investigation which was at the time very scary.( The guilty person was hanged).
What???The nasty details are on the web (1960)
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