Your lowest point?

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chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
Just wondering what others have had to deal with, and how did you turn it around?
I've had a pretty crappy 6 months for various reasons, and after a while despite trying to fight the system the constant knock backs really do start getting you down and you begin to wonder if there really is a light at the end of that tunnel? I've seen various threads in the past refering to depression, the homeless, suicide etc and have to be honest in the last 6 months think i have much more sympathy and a better understanding as to why some people end up going down these routes, rightly or wrongly. I guess until you've been there yourself maybe its harder to have a proper understanding of the situation, until you're in it yourself.

I woke up today at my lowest point, the mrs was ill in bed with a migraine and sickness for the 2nd day running, mainly due to the last 6 months finally starting to beat us. I came downstairs knowing we had no milk in the fridge, or sugar in the cupboard so an unsweet black coffee it was. I sat in the garden blankly staring at the floor whilst drinking my cuppa knowing that sadly the cupboards are virtually bear, although we've done a pretty good job of making the pasta and veg go a long way, but with only £2.07 left in the bank and now being out of ideas i honestly feel like i have failed. 6 months ago i never thought things could get as low as they have, but hey ho, these are the cards we are dealt.
So i mooched around the house gathered up a collection of dvds and blueray films aswell as some xbox games, (about 70 in total) plus my decent satnav, (new last year at £249) and walked down to the town and flogged the lot in 1 of those exchange type shops. I got £50 for the lot frown
I wasn't expecting alot but £50 hurt, but at least its £50 quids worth of shopping now in the cupboards. I hope it lasts for a while or our luck changes as otherwise its my late parents antiques next frown

Sorry i know its not an upbeat Saturday night topic, but interested to know how others have maybe dealt with similar situations?

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
No. Suicide is not for me. But thanks for asking.

I really do hope and think that eventually this will all turn itself around, but sometimes knockback, after knockback its hard to try and see a way forward.

Edited by chilistrucker on Saturday 8th November 22:06

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
Anonamoose said:
sc0tt said:
Ever thought about suicide?
Absolutely uncalled for, no need at all.

To the OP is there a particular cause to the hard times? There might be people on here who can help with a solution. And even if not it might help to vent.
Firstly to sc0tt. I'm away off suicide yet just because i think of the long term affects it would have on others, so suicide, no! But losing the will to fight and carry on went a while ago. Its only the fact that i have such a great mrs that so far over the last 6 months we've held each other together. Today i woke up at 8am, but didn't drag my sorry arse out of bed till midday as thoughts just went round and round in my mind as to how i could try and carry on going forwards.

Anonamoose, yes there is a cause to the hard times. Its all very long winded but dates back to 17th of May when i was working away on a tour in Belfast. We had some free time, and so went for a beer in town, sadly i slipped over on a wet patch in the bar, (i was sober) but the injuries i received were pretty severe, a perforated ear drum, 2 fractures on my skull and 3 internal bleeds on the brain frown
Its these injuries that have had the huge impact on my life. I know just how lucky i am even to still be here today and am very thankful for this.
But ever since i've been fighting the system, mainly the DVLA medical board, and my local council being the 2 main culprits, and no matter how hard i try and fight, the system just seems to want to keep kicking you when you're down. I think it wants you to just accept what they tell you, and expects you to roll over and play dead. I do not agree with their train of thought and have tried, and am still trying every avenue i can to get the wrongs, (in my opinion) put right but sadly with little success frown

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
ali_kat said:
It's st mate & I wish I could help.

In his own special way, Sc0tt is right, you haven't hit your lowest point yet.

The only way from here is up, it may take a while & the road may go down a little further before it heads upwards; but it will do so.

I'm assuming you both are out of work at the moment, have you signed on? There's no stigma about it, you've paid in, you are one of the people that it is there for; rather than those who have never paid into the system.
This is 1 of my bugbears. I've worked full time since leaving school 26 years ago so like most have payed my fair share of tax and national insurance.
My Mrs works part time, and our son works full time and lives with us and pays us 'keep.' We live in a lovely little council house in a nice area, and was hoping to buy it this/next year, (glad i hadn't gone down the mortgage route now.)
On returning home from hospital i contacted the relevant authorities as i knew i was going to struggle for a while. The problem is i'm a lorry driver by trade and have been for the last 23 years, so due to the nature of the injuries the DVLA, (correctly) revoked my licences. After many correspondence back and forth with my "local" council they finally said i was entitled to £22 per week benefits towards rent and council tax. I also got £72 per week E.S.A, (sick pay)
This appeared to be ok for 10 weeks, (it wasn't). After 10 weeks the council phoned us to ask why we were 5 weeks behind with the rent and council tax???
We said that we were not, as the mrs pays it every week. The council then asked us did we know the benefits had been stopped 5 weeks ago?
No, we did not. The benefits people had reviewed our case, decided that our son should pay an extra £29 per week 'housekeeping/rent' so they no longer needed to pay us benefits. They also decided not to inform us of this, of which i have proof. The first we knew was after the call from the rent office about the 5 weeks arrears. So we then had to find the £110, 5 weeks arrears, (which was hard) and pay it off.

Fast forward another 6-7 weeks and a letter drops through our door from the "council benefits recovery team."
WHO???
The letter states we owe them £110 and have 14 days to pay before they take further action, the letter arrives with only 2 days left of the 14. I get on the phone yet again and they inform me that as they reviewed the case, they now feel that the first 5 weeks of the 10 that they did pay us, is now viewed as an overpayment and so we have to pay them back this £110 also eek

Brilliant, so we actually were entitled to nothing, (glad i payed my tax and N.I for 26 years) and are now being threatened with court action for the £110 overpayment.
Fantastic. I personally feel this is a disgrace, i could be right or wrong but have to admit i am a little disgruntled about the whole scenario and trying to fight it is a draining task on its own. I write or phone them with regards to everything at the very first instance, yet they reply whenever they like, if ever at all frown Its a disgrace, and this is just 1 thing i'm fighting, the DVLA medical board is another, and even worse.
The brief DVLA version is my neuro consultant on the 27th of August gave me the all clear that my injuries have cleared and in his expert opinion i am fit to drive/return to work. This was fine for 3 weeks until the DVLA medical board overruled my consultant and have now revoked my car and truck licences yet again. I've been fighting them ever since, but they are harder to deal with than my local council and its relevant arms. So i'm entitled to no benefits. I want to return to work but due to the DVLAs opinion am not allowed to, so i can't work, and can;t get benefit and no one in a position of power gives a toss. Great.


Sorry for the stupidly long post, but wanted to highlight it all to show what i feel i'm up against.

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
oldcynic said:
If it's not a stupid/offensive question, is there anything else you can do to earn money while the DVLA fk with your life?
Been on the jobseekers plan for the last 3 weeks.
Half the problem is because i've been doing the job i love for the last 23 years everything was fine. But now the situation has changed it appears i'm virtually qualified to do hardly anything on the jobsearch website frown
The only jobs i could really do, i actually can't due to the DVLAs stance on matters. Catch 22.

Although, i may have a start at a job on Monday.
Its as a yardman, i'm guessing its not going to be equal to the wage i was earning on the rock n roll stuff as a tour driver, but if someone wants to pay me £200 per week right now, looking after a yard, sweeping up, or anything for that matter i'd gladly take it wink

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
RetroWheels said:
drivin_me_nuts said:
Sometimes, all you can do to survive is to stop looking out into 'the future' and instead think more moment by moment. It is good to plan, it is great to dream but when life presents events that try and break you, that's when you need to be clever. Take a different path or approach. Think less of the challenge and more of the moment. My worst moment was not when my wife died and I left her in the hospice cooling, but twenty minutes later when i stepped in to our home that I had not stepped foot in for more than five minutes in the previous three months and realised the sheer enormity of loss.

Sometimes, it's not about the fight, nor winning nor losing, it's about living within the context and parameters that life presents you with. The trick with life is the dance, no matter how hard the beat becomes, to still dance regardless.
Quoted because it's one of the most sensitive and insightful posts, i've had the privilege to read on this website, in 13 years.
Agreed, fantastic post, and thankyou.

Infact, thanks to everyone for the posts whatever they may have been i appreciate them alot.

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
njathind said:
Fingers crossed it's good news for you on Monday

I know I don't know you from Adam but it sounds like times are tough, and your being treated rather unfairly by the relevant authorities.

From what I gather the DVLA did give you your licence back but then took it away again? If this is the case then there must be some way of taking it higher up the chain. Maybe the citizens advice bureau can help you out?

Do let us know how you get on Monday, everything crossed for ya wink
Good news, i've got it, will know more details tomorrow smile

Anonamoose, i received a letter from dvla this morning and it states they are looking into my case, (car licence) and say they have to talk to my consultant to get his confirmation that i'm fit to drive, but it could take 6 weeks!!!!! JEEZ! This being the same consultant that told them at the beginning of September that in his expert opinion i was fit to return to driving. Drives me nuts. Why will this take them 6 weeks? Truck licence they won't budge on, 1 year minimum. My MP got no where, so i am stumped where to go next, although 1 of the big truck magazines has taken on my case so we'll see....

J4CKO, you're right as i've been this down of late it has made me realise how much i took for granted with my day to day normality.

Impasse, i know that a visit to the doc maybe a good idea? I know how lucky i am to have the mrs though, she is a star and picks me up when i'm down she says no matter how bad it gets, she'd happily live in a tent in a park as long as we are still together. i'd be lost without her.

swerni, the money issue, food on the table etc is very high up on the list but for me it is more about the system not listening, or caring about the plight of individuals i think thats what bothers me the most. I really had no idea of a figure on those items i sold, (but retail they were worth £500+) i just needed some cash to be able to go food shopping with. I t was interesting in the supermarket on my own, trying to get the most i could out of the £50 i had. Did ok wink

CTO, thankyou so much for your very kind offer, i thankyou from the bottom of my heart. If its ok, keep hold of it for now as i may just be able to keep my head above water, (pending this new job) and if i can i'll do a deal with you if you like? Pick a crisis type charity, and we'll both stick some money their way to put a meal on someone needys table smile
Or if you want you can buy me a bag of chips in the meantime wink

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
Posting this has done me a huge favour. After reading every bodies posts it makes me realise I do need to mtfu a bit. Reading other peoples stories really helped as you realise you're not alone and the advice given has been great, I thank every single 1 of you from the bottom of my heart smile

The job is working for a friends company and I'll start as the yard man and as soon as I get my licence back he said I can go out on the roads and learn more about his business, so it's a great start and who knows where it will lead?

It's 20 miles from home and the mrs should be able to take me most days I'll just have to make my own way home, I'll walk it if I have to I'm just over the moon to be going back to work, will help focus my mind smile
Hopefully after 3 or 4 weeks i'll be able to get our 2nd car mot'd and taxed and should hopefully have my car licence back which will be a huge help!

I'm not done fighting the system yet, I feel it's a disgrace in many ways on how it treats individuals and anything I can possibly do to fight it, or change it, I certainly will!

Thanks again all wink

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
Hoofy said:
Ouch. Next time you sell stuff, try Gumtree or similar. Facebook probably has a local sales group you could use.</horse bolted>

Dunno what your finances were like a year ago, but you say you bought a £250 satnav - is this kind of expenditure necessary and routine? Do you tend to buy top of the range stuff when it's just out? I tend to buy used stuff especially tech as it's going to be out of date and crash in price fairly quickly, anyway.

Might be worthwhile reviewing your expenditure.

(Hope this post comes across as helpful not critical.)
My finances were very good last year, the tour job is very well payed and I understand that a lot more right now than I did last year when I took far to much for granted.
I bought it last year in Holland as the tour I was on was about to go to Russia and Turkey and my very old sat nav didn't cover those. I was expecting it to last at least 5 years but it's sadly surplus to requirements at the mo. I agree it would have been much better to sell it another way, but yesterday was a desperate day.
Lesson learned. The last 6 months have been quite an education, both for it's ups and downs.

Moose, (whispers) I'm based in Basildon.

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
surveyor said:
My Farther in Law hit similar problems in the past. although had more luck.

He drove a mixer, and had a heart attack. Licence gone then.

He was lucky in that the the Cement company found him a job driving a van and collecting random site tests.

I suspect your more likely to get work from people who know you.

I wish you the best of luck.

PS Councils are incompetent at best. When I met my other half she was a single mum and received housing benefit and council tax benefit. She received letters every week telling her they had reassessed her circumstanced and changing what they paid. Of course nothing from her end had changed at all.
I agree the council and the dvla in my opinion have mostly been incompetent. I'm doing all the chasing, trying to tick the right boxes, etc and these organisations just seem to do as they please, and only when it suits them which just makes it all the more frustrating.

Well the job starts at 8am tomorrow, can't wait if i'm honest i know i'll just be in the yard due to my licence situation but can't wait to just get back to work and earn my own money again.


Hoofy, it was quite a drop in wages/lifestyle, a drop of £800 per week.

WinstonWolf, it may take me a while to get my fitness up to 20 miles, normally i couldn't go that far in the truck without a cafe stop smile

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
Porkbrain said:
chilistrucker, I've sent you an email via PH.

Please let me know if you get it OK, the 'send' page said it will give you my email address, but the copy of the email sent to me states that it won't give you my email address.

Makes as much sense as the council's attitude.

Chin up mate.
Got it mate, and just replied smile
Your offer, like CTO's and 3 others from ph people really were fantastic, both my mrs and myself thankyou all from the bottom of our hearts.

The responses on here, and the emails/messages i've had over all of this really have cheered me up and shown me that even in some really dark times, there are still some fantastic people out there.
beer

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Monday 10th November 2014
quotequote all
ali_kat said:
How was today?
Sorry for the late reply, and i'm knackered if i'm honest smile
Jobwise, great. It was fantastic to go back and finally do a days work, its certainly not what i'm used to but i enjoyed every minute of it from sweeping the yard, to washing vehicles and playing with some clever machinery, (remote controlled cherrypickers.) I'll sleep well tonight, but looking forward to tomorrow.

On a sidenote did have a couple more knockbacks, (getting used to these) 1 from the dvla and 1 from the "legal firm" who have supposedly been fighting my case against the pub where the accident happened that started this whole sorry affair off. The solicitors sent me an email from the pubs investigation team, that is accusing me of something that isn't true, and it is pretty insulting of me personally. They are accusing me of being drunk and refusing to serve me. I was stone cold sober, I am so angry and fuming at this and can prove that they are referring to the wrong person, as i have 3 witnesses. I passed this info on to the solicitor who appears to have lost interest now as he says that the pub have proved they reguarly mop the floor, and apparently that is a good enough defence. He shows no interest at all that the pub are talking about somebody else, who they have mistaken as being me even though i can prove this.
I was upstairs in the toilet, whilst the pub were dealing with the person at the bar who they think was me. Its just nuts.

I'm changing my username to LUCKY i think.

Oh well, bed for me, work tomorrow and thanks again to everyone for the comments and some truly amazing emails over the last couple of days.


chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Tuesday 11th November 2014
quotequote all
Hello all, would have been on before but this bloody job is getting in the way biggrin
Actually i'm enjoying it, there is actually quite abit to take in as not only am i looking after the yard etc, but learning how to do p.d.i inspections on the machines, so alot to learn but i like a challenge. I had to clear a load of moss and leaves up on Monday and i even enjoyed that.

RE the other bits. The letter from DVLA said they'd received my application for the car licence but had to contact my neuro consultant for his opinion and this could take 6 weeks. This being the same consultant that told the DVLA on the 27-08-14 that in his opinion i was fit to return to driving.
Surprise, surprise i just had to phone the DVLA today and they said they have now wrote to the consultant and perhaps i should phone him to try and hurry things along rolleyes

The whole legal issue i am unsure really what to do, i will have a good think on it the rest of the week and weekend. Not getting any money out of it isn't really an issue anymore. You don't miss what you never had but that fall has cost me a lot financially in loss of wages, plus the stresses of everything, the doctors even told me the injury could have killed me, (that was sobering) and to think it all really started from that 1 slip on a pub floor. I am more angry at the slur on me personally and the lack of a proper and truthful investigation from the people representing the pub chain. They have clearly messed up, but as they havn't investigated it thoroughly i think they are unaware of the mistakes they've made, this is the main thing that doesn't sit right with me.


There is a good side to all of this of late though, and that is pistonheads and the very good people on it and i know i have already mentioned it, but the last few days have been a heartwarming eye opener to myself and the mrs.
Whether its reading other peoples stories of their own battles in hard times and how they got through it, or all the posts i've read on this thread with some great advice aswell as all the ones wishing us luck and telling us not to give up, each and every one of them has cheered us up like you wouldn't believe.

On top of all of this, we have had bloody loads of emails, all in a similar vain of best wishes and great advice, it has cheered me up reading them all.
Several of these emails even offered us money! I won't go into detail, as i respect other peoples privacy, but i will say we had several offers of financial help, and not 1 of them wanted anything back in return, myself and my mrs were speechless. On Saturday i had £2 left in the bank and virtually no food in the cupboards, but today we COULD have had enough in the bank for a very, very nice all inclusive holiday somewhere, every one of these offers blew our minds, we thought someone had started a bloody telefon for us.

I am a very proud man and hoped i'd get by till the wages came rolling in but have to admit we have just fell short, so we have taken 1 person up on their offer and i'll leave it at that because of my respect for other peoples privacy.

All i really wanted to do here was show my gratitude to each and everyone of you for all of the things i've just mentioned, if i could i'd buy every single one of you a beer, i bloody would, thankyou all so much beer

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Wednesday 12th November 2014
quotequote all
Jonjo91 said:
Chilis it's great to see things are on the up, it's easy to see that from the tone of your posts.

I can't really contribute much to this thread but it's one of the few I come back to every morning with excitement to see if you have replied and how things are coming along.

I can't offer much but as i'm fairly local if you ever need a hand paying for some groceries or a heating bill paid the offer is there.

Keep us updated - I'm eagerly following this.
Thanks for the offer, really appreciated it smile
I'm going to nick Hora's potatoes and pasta and see if I can start a secret moonshine factory smile

Been busy today, washing the machines off and checking a couple over for tomorrow, then had to get on my hands and knees to scrape the goo and mud out of the drains, well it was me or the school kid on work experience, and the poor little sod didn't fancy it.

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
GPS M-Jet said:
Just took a fairly hefty chunk out of my working day and read each and every word posted in this thread. And I'm glad I did! I rarely post stuff on here because it seems to be full of moronic keyboard warriors but this thread has shown me a different side to the sight.

Chilistrucker - thank you for sharing your story, I'm so pleased you're enjoying the new job and I hope everything else falls in to place too.

You have a PM.
Thank you so much, and I have replied smile

Firstly for sump.
I'm just an average joe, worked hard, brought 2 kids up, 1 my own and 1 my step son who I only see as my own, met him when he was 8 and he's 21 next month, just gutted I can't get him a better present this year!
I'm a grandad to as my daughter has a 3 year old who we love deeply and playing cars and trains on the floor with him keeps me sane and a bit youthful. Mix in with this the last 8 years of having my dream job, but repeatedly giving it up in this period for dealing with terminally I'll family, firstly mum, then dad, then mum in law, I'll let you work out karma for yourself! Please post back your findings! I've lost 3 of the most important people in my life, who moulded me into who I am and miss them deeply, so I struggle to believe in karma in light of these and recent events!!!

Now, for those that have emailed, etc!
The job is going ok, but if I'm honest it's really not me frown
I don't mind the rubbish clearance, cleaning drains out, etc, it just feels like I have no purpose currently and to be honest even if I was still driving a truck on a rock n roll tour I'm not sure that would either????

BUT, hey presto tonight my mrs spots an add in our local paper for our local hospice interested in people working for them in home support care???
We both feel this could be exactly what we are after, we 'be seen 1 side of hospices for ourselves already, but if we could find another way to have dealings with them, this could be fantastic!!!!
Not interested in money anymore, we both just want a job that let's us be together and get by, but at the same time to help others in anyway we can would be so rewarding, so for us to repay what we owe the hospice could be a dream come true!!!
So roll on Saturday, we are off to the hospice to see if perhaps our futures lie there???

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Tuesday 18th November 2014
quotequote all
Sump said:
Well fair enough. For all we know you could have been some druggie gangster hence my post.
I could of been, and I could of taken all the money offered to me, but wouldn't as I am a believer in karma!

What comes around, goes around......

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
quotequote all
Cheers _Neal_ wink
Did a huge bonfire today, ok I was knee deep in horse st but everyone loves a good bonfire smile

Re the hospice thing. We have spent a fair bit of time in our local one over the last 3 years as they were a massive help to us with regards both my parents and my mother in law.
Always amazed at the endless help they can give and their compassion, fantastic people.
Based on recent events we'd both quite like to do a job where we are really helping people, not worried about wages anymore as long as we can earn enough to get by we'd be much happier to do a more rewarding job like this. It would be nice to give something back that's why we are popping in there on Saturday.

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 29th November 2014
quotequote all
Hello all, bit of an update for those who have emailed me.
I went to the hospice, but the job is done through an agency and they will only take people with a driving licence frown
On a much brighter note the new job is going well, 3 weeks in now and although its still a steep learning curve i am certainly getting the hang of it. Now have the yard/warehouse in a much tidier state than it was, and slowly getting to grips with the various machines on what they are, how they work, and how to p.d.i them, had 1 up at 50ft in the week :0
Got pulled in the office last night by the directors, and was told it had been noted on the job i was doing, and that they want to give me more responsibility and have put my wages up smile They also gave me my invite to the christmas do, which is a night out/meal in London for the staff and their partners, plus they put us all up in a nice hotel for the night, and we pay for nothing smile
Wednesday next week i have another appointment with my neuro consultant with reference to getting my car licence back, this for me is a huge deal so fingers crossed. I havn't given up trying to fight the system with regards to the benefits people and the dvla, but with the new job and some decent outlook in life this has taken abit of a side step. I personally think this is a good thing, as i concentrate on it at weekends when i have the spare time as opposed to it consuming my life a few weeks back which on reflection certainly didn't help matters.
Still got a way to go, but things are certainly looking up and life is so much better right now than it was 4 weeks ago, thanks to some cracking family, friends and decent people on here. Thankyou alll very much wink
I really could see a long term future in this new job that is a bit different from what i know so well, but i'm certainly up for a new challenge and interested to see where it could lead???

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 29th November 2014
quotequote all
Cheers.
It's def 1 step at a time, but i'm getting the hang of it and although it was really bloody hard at first i am now enjoying it much more. The machines are very specialist bits of kit and amaze me what they can do, and its quite enjoyable moving some of the bigger stuff around the yard via a remote control box, all good practice for when i hopefully start delivering them to London, etc.
My goal is now to get the car licence back this side of christmas smile

chilistrucker

Original Poster:

4,541 posts

153 months

Saturday 29th November 2014
quotequote all
Wacky Racer said:
Great news CT.

To anyone reading this who is feeling deeply depressed hang on in there..(I have put up with this st for twenty years, some of it my fault and some circumstances beyond my control), but thankfully I have emerged out of the dark tunnel OK.

a) Take each day/week at a time, don't look too far into the future.

b) Talk to anyone that will listen........DON'T bottle it up.

c) See your GP

d) It WILL get better eventually, there is ALWAYS someone a lot worse off than yourself.

This cartoon might help........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCrniLQGYc
Agree with all of this, especially, d.