If the worst were to happen...

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My fiancee has a 5 year old son from a previous relationship. We've been together since he was 8 months old, and as such I have raised him as my own; I love him more than anything and he thinks the world of me.

The missus and I are getting married in May next year, and it has got me wondering what would happen to him if she were to die. It's a morbid thought, I know - But it's something that is in the back of my mind and we need to clarify it.

He lives with us, but sees his Dad every weekend (one night and two nights alternately). Despite the sperm donor being a bit of a cock he seems to do a decent enough job with the little man. Nothing has ever been agreed officially with regards to custody; thankfully things are pretty amicable now, so no need for courts etc.

If anything were to happen to Mrs 7, she would want me to have custody of him, and I would want the same. However, I'm not even sure either of us would have a say in matters. Would he automatically fall into the custody of his biological father? Or do I have a right to be his legal guardian? What would the process be?

On a slight tangent, could I only legally adopt him if his father was no longer around?

Any info appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Cas_P said:

Regardless of your relationship with him, and how long you've been with your partner. The boy has a father, who clearly cares and bothers, which is more than can be said for a lot of other men. I don't think that's a place for someone to come along and take, and if the worse did happen, it'd be pretty damn harsh for you to take that away from him and in that case it should be you asking him for access.

So many men don't bother, while lots of women take their children away from their dads and others let another man take their place even when the dad does give a st, with no option. Unless the dad had fked off and didn't care, you shouldn't try and take his place.

I appreciate what you're saying, but with respect you don't know the situation. His Dad wants him at times that suit him, and is more than happy to drop him off early so he can go out on the piss, or pick him up late afternoon instead of morning because he's watching the football/has a hangover etc.

Also bear in mind the reason they split up is because he cheated on her while she was carrying his child.

I tuck him in bed and read him a story at night, I take him to school every morning, I take him to football, the park etc. My parents treat him better than they do their other Grandchildren. He is my son.

Aside from the obvious, how is his biological father any more of a Dad than I am?

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Blue Meanie said:

No-one is saying you are not as much of a dad as the biological father, but he IS the biological father, and if he isn't a complete cock, then he will have first refusal, so to speak. He doesn't sound too bad. Have you spoken to lady friend about this, or even the father?

Yes I appreciate that, but it seems a little unfair that it should be up to him - After all, anyone can impregnate someone?

I mean, I'd say it anyway, but the little man would be far better off with me. It's hard to explain but he is like my clone - My Mini-Me - and I hate the thought of him being dumped with his "Dad" just 'because'.

Of course I've spoken to the missus about it; it was her that brought it up. She would much rather he stayed with me.

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Cas_P said:

He's the dad, he plays a part, he clearly cares about his child. You're not his dad, and you shouldn't go trying to take his place because you *think* you'd be better. Just because he cheated doesn't mean he doesn't care about his child, and he probably feels quite upset by the fact that you so clearly openly believe
this child is or should be more yours than his. And probably feels pushed away.

You say I don't know the whole story so can't judge, but you've put this thread up on here and asked advice/thoughts based on the information given. I think
you're wrong and need to think of how
You'd feel if you were the father. But you clearly don't want any opinions that differ with your thoughts. Regardless of saying "I appreciate what you're saying" to people. Because it's obvious you don't. I have a 4 year old (on Monday) and I'd never let anyone take his dads place and I'd not expect his dad to let anyone take my place.

Well, it's not quite that simple is it. I asked what would happen, not what should happen.

You're giving your opinion on the situation with his father - That is not what I asked. I asked if I would be legally able to take responsibility for the child. If I can't, then that is something I will have to accept. When I say I don't think it's right; I'm only giving my (informed) opinion.

How would I feel if I were the father? Well, knowing both him and my missus as I do, the first step would be not to be a complete with someone who is carrying your child. The second step would be to try and spend every possible second with that child (which he doesn't). Yes he has him at weekends, but he could quite easily ask to have him for an hour or two or even overnight in the week. Does he? No.

He likes to be a father to his biological son when it suits him. I CHOSE to be a father to his son because I love him.

Like I said, if the law says he gets the decision then I will have to swallow that - But I don't have to accept that it's right.

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I Love Lamp said:

Wow.

OP, I admire the responsibility you've taken. Not many people are as selfless as you to love a child and want to care for a child who's blood is not of theirs.

I'm pretty sure that there are legal avenues you can follow, though these would require the consent of the biological father unless it can be proven he is a pile of wk (which is probably not going to happen).

The good news is, it's unlikely anything will happen to your (soon to be) wife, once your child is old enough to make their own decision then it's plain sailing should the worst happen.

Kids aren't stupid

I'm speaking from what will be your kids perspective in 20 years time

Thank you, that's reassuring to hear and the last bit is what I have been told repeatedly by friends and family.

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Penny-lope said:

But sadly not everyone lives in the same little 'happy world'

This man has been in this child's life since it was 8 months old, so you can not expect him to just hand over the child and stand back, or walk away (depending on which the biological father may well expect him to do)


OP, all three of you have to sit down and talk things through like adults, and decide what would be best for the child (which of course may well change with time)

Agreed.

It frightens me to think that I could be told by him that I will have nothing more to do with his son; which is morally wrong but could be legally right. I can't even say for sure that I wouldn't do the same if I were in his position, so maybe that makes me a hypocrite.

I think it will have to be discussed at some point.

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bozibo said:

SC7 said:

I asked if I would be legally able to take responsibility for the child. If I can't, then that is something I will have to accept.

If there were no pre - existing legal agreement you would have to fight for him.

I would be more than willing to do that, and I assume it would make things easier if Mrs 7 expressed in her will her desire for him to remain with me?

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willy wonka said:

Me and my wife have been through this my wife has a daughter from a previous relationship.When we got married we had the same thought.As bad as it sounds you have to treat the child as a possession if your partner has sole custody with her ex just having access she has to leave the child to you (if she wants to)in her will.We had to do this but as my stepdaughter is now 25 it does not matter so much.

HTH

Thank you.

This may sound stupid but does she automatically have sole custody as the mother until legally challenged? Or can one only consider themselves sole custodians after arguing the case in court?

You see, the agreement for him to see his Dad at weekends is only verbal between my missus and her ex. Nothing is set in stone.

Edited by SC7 on Saturday 16th October 23:00

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Fun Bus said:

Cas_P, thank-you for saying all I wanted to in response to the OP. I'm a dad of a nearly 6-year old who's Mother left me when he was 9 months old (we were married). If someone took the attitude of the OP towards custody of my child should something happen to him I'd go radio rental.

Us absent Fathers are painted in a bad light all too often and tarred with the same brush of those dads who really don't care. Many of us do and for another man to take the place of us in our Childs life is unthinkable.

OP, stop polishing your halo and give some consideration to the REAL father of your wifes to be Son.

Whoa hang on.

Just because you're a good father does that mean all biological fathers are?

Because he slepy with my missus 5 years ago does that automatically make him a REAL father?


I'm not taking any "attitude" at all towards the custody of the child. I'm asking would I have any right to keep what I see as my son.

Christ, I thought I was doing something positive here. All I'm trying to ascertain is whether I have any rights because I'm frightened to death of losing my boy if I lose my wife.

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Blue Meanie said:

We have no evidence that a serious chat has taken place, simply that he expects the father to stand aside.

Where have I said that?

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Blue Meanie said:

No one is saying you are not doing the rit thing. You just seem to have it in your mind that your rights as a loving 'step father' are above that of the biological father. It doesn't matter if their relationship broke apart, or that they do not get on. The simple fact is that the father IS involved in the Childs life, and as such, he has more right than you do as a parent. You don't like it, we get it, but it doesn't sound like the guy is an abscent fatherly, or doesn't give a fk. The sooner you realize that, the better.

No, what I asked is whether I would be presented with an opportunity to take on the child legally should anything happen to his mother.

He lives here with us now. Surely he should be at least given the opportunity to live the same life if anything were to happen to his Mum.

Also, for what it's worth, he pays sweet FA in child support, despite having a good job.

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Cas_P said:

You think you're doing something positive by trying to ascertain whether you can take a child away from his father if his mother dies?

Edited by Cas_P on Sunday 17th October 00:36

No this is where YOU have it wrong.

I'm not trying to take anyone away from anyone. I'm asking if my "son" could at least have the opportunity to live the life he lives now, but without his mother.

I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever in him spending time with his Dad. But I have him 'full-time' now, why should that change?

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Blue Meanie said:

And people have said. The only way you would get that chance is if the biological father allowed you to adopt him. Frnkly I'm amazed that you ink you are on at least an even level with the father.

Frankly I'm amazed that you think I'm not.

Aside from the legal aspect, what makes you think I'm any less of a father to him?

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Blue Meanie said:

I never said you were less of a father. I said you are not on an even keel with the father. You have not adopted the child, and the father is on good enough relations to see the boy every week. Why do you think you trump the biological father despite these things?

There are many reasons I believe I 'trump' him - reasons I am not willing to go into here.

Please accept I'm not trying to be pig-headed about what you're telling me. I now fully appreciate that in a court of law I would have little or no say in my son's future.

The point I am trying to convey is that just because it is legal, that does not mean it is morally or ethically right.

Just believe me when I say his father is not all he's cracked up to be.

Maybe I can't expect his father to just let me "take him away". But from my point of view, I have to wonder why I have to accept it that he can be taken away from me.

Edited by SC7 on Sunday 17th October 00:51

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Cas_P said:

A lot of women with children are seperated and have new partners who live with them and their child, does that mean that when you move in with someone with a child you automatically gain the same rights as the father and because you are living with the child mean you should keep the child there and have custody, so the child is in the same place, even if the real father plays an active part in the childs life?

Really?

No, not at all. But I would expect each situation to be judged on its individual merits rather than the blanket ruling of "Biology wins".

Surely you can see that?

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Blue Meanie said:

You can expect to have him taken away from you because you are not his legal guardian, father, or whatever. You happen to be living with his mum.

And therein lies the answer to my OP.

Not what I wanted to hear at all, and certainly not fair in my opinion - But if that's what the law says then that's the way it goes.

That still doesn't mean it's right though, which is the point I am trying to make.

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Sheets Tabuer said:

Face it, you're just shagging his mum, you're not his dad.

He is not "your son"

Thanks for your carefully considered, mature input.

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Sheets Tabuer said:

SC7 said:

Sheets Tabuer said:

Face it, you're just shagging his mum, you're not his dad.

He is not "your son"

Thanks for your carefully considered, mature input.

Oh behave, you stamped your feet with the my son comment, if you don't like opinions don't fking post.

How did I "stamp my feet"?

Is there a law against me calling him my son? Maybe I should explain that to him.

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Blue Meanie said:

Cas_P said:

SC7 said:

Cas_P said:

A lot of women with children are seperated and have new partners who live with them and their child, does that mean that when you move in with someone with a child you automatically gain the same rights as the father and because you are living with the child mean you should keep the child there and have custody, so the child is in the same place, even if the real father plays an active part in the childs life?

Really?

No, not at all. But I would expect each situation to be judged on its individual merits rather than the blanket ruling of "Biology wins".

Surely you can see that?

Yep, biological dad buggers off, doesn't want anything to do with kid. New man on the scene from a young age, more than enough rights to take that place as 'dad' if he so wishes.

Biological father on the scene, seeing child every week, does a good job with said child, loves said child. Another man comes on the scene, no rights at all to take the place of dad, and should'nt even try if he had an ounce of decency. Should care for the child and play a role, but in no way try and replace his REAL father.

As much I hate to use it, I'll give you a +1

I agree with it the way you have worded it, but it's not that clear cut unfortunately.

In fact, he spent the first 12 months of the child's life being (seemingly) as much of a as was humanly possible (and wouldn't have him at all). The next 12 months were spent trying to make our lives as difficult as possible (making it difficult for me and the child's mother to get on with our lives). He now has the boy every weekend, 90% of which is seemingly spent in a pub.

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Sheets Tabuer said:

I can see albeit from text only that you are stamping your feet with the my son comment, and your reply to other posts.

he is not your son, I can understand your position etc but at the end of the day he has a DNA link to a man who is in his life.

So you think that warranted a "You're not his Dad, you're just fking his Mum" post?

A little disrespectful, no?

I'll debate and fight my corner all day long, but I don't come on here to ask advice on a sensitive subject only to be spoken to like a .

Edited by SC7 on Sunday 17th October 01:07