protein shakes
Discussion
Jeux said:
hips below knees every time.....
...But only if you are not rounding your lower back at this point. The depth you will be able to squat safely is different for each individual. Ankle flexibility and limb length make a difference. When you squat you should stop at the point your lower back starts to round. If you go further than this it will make your lower back ache and cause problems in the long run.
Edited to add: If you guys have not tried it, the 20 rep squat routine is excellent and I have seen very good consistent gains by just doing one set of 20 reps supplemented by a 20 rep front squat, followed by by 20 rep stiff leg deadlifts. If you have about one and half to 2 minutes rest between these three exercises it is punishing! I have now got to the stage where I am doing 120kg for the squat and deadlift and 60kg for the front squat. (I weigh 70kg)
Edited by markh1 on Friday 2nd July 13:16
balders118 said:
Just to add, there are 3 types of muscle fibre type 1, 2a and 2b.
2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
The way I understood it is that you cannot fundamentally convert one type of muscle fibre to another however you can selectively hypertrophy through training certain types. Therefore changing the overvall proportion - by volume/cross section - of that fibre type within the muscle?2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
Which gives the overall effect of improving the ratio's of fast twitch to slow twitch fibres etc...
markh1 said:
Jeux said:
hips below knees every time.....
...But only if you are not rounding your lower back at this point. The depth you will be able to squat safely is different for each individual. Ankle flexibility and limb length make a difference. When you squat you should stop at the point your lower back starts to round. If you go further than this it will make your lower back ache and cause problems in the long run.
Edited to add: If you guys have not tried it, the 20 rep squat routine is excellent and I have seen very good consistent gains by just doing one set of 20 reps supplemented by a 20 rep front squat, followed by by 20 rep stiff leg deadlifts. If you have about one and half to 2 minutes rest between these three exercises it is punishing! I have now got to the stage where I am doing 120kg for the squat and deadlift and 60kg for the front squat. (I weigh 70kg)
Edited by markh1 on Friday 2nd July 13:16
most intensive sessions I have done is 10 x 10 reps with 60 seconds recovery between sets... go up to 110kg, the first 5 or 6 sets seem really quite easy.. then it all catches up with you very fast.....
agree abuo the back comment, but not talkni gbum to the floor, just hip slightly below knees- im 6'3" an can manage that quite easily, i find holding the weight lower down the back ala powerlifer position ( for holdnig the weight not the leg positioning) really helps take th epressure off th elower back fpor all squatting
bales said:
balders118 said:
Just to add, there are 3 types of muscle fibre type 1, 2a and 2b.
2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
The way I understood it is that you cannot fundamentally convert one type of muscle fibre to another however you can selectively hypertrophy through training certain types. Therefore changing the overvall proportion - by volume/cross section - of that fibre type within the muscle?2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
Which gives the overall effect of improving the ratio's of fast twitch to slow twitch fibres etc...
then there is of course the question of nural adaptation, that will give quicker initial gains that any weight training, as the muscle fibres you alreay have will be working better.... it does tend to give you a spanking headache after a sesion and some nerve stretches though....
Ha ha yes it does burn! And I hate doing it but it is great when it is done! I also have the bar fairly low on my upper back. I wear boxing wraps round my wrists to support them as when the bar is low on my back it bends my wrists back quite a bit. I squat down so the tops of my thighs are roughly parallel with the floor.
an 18 year old I am writting sessions for at the moment has made some very good progress this year - he weights about 68kg, and is now cleaning 107.5kg, has run a 48.20 electric for the 400m, jumped 2m high jump, and long jumped 7.15 ( should be doing 7.50 but cant handle his new run up speed yet) , oh and a 10.9 for the 100m.... he is very bouncy and has a pretty high Type 2 ration, but ca also run a 4.25 for the 1500m...he's a very promising decathlete....
Jeux said:
bales said:
balders118 said:
Just to add, there are 3 types of muscle fibre type 1, 2a and 2b.
2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
The way I understood it is that you cannot fundamentally convert one type of muscle fibre to another however you can selectively hypertrophy through training certain types. Therefore changing the overvall proportion - by volume/cross section - of that fibre type within the muscle?2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
Which gives the overall effect of improving the ratio's of fast twitch to slow twitch fibres etc...
Jeux said:
an 18 year old I am writting sessions for at the moment has made some very good progress this year - he weights about 68kg, and is now cleaning 107.5kg, has run a 48.20 electric for the 400m, jumped 2m high jump, and long jumped 7.15 ( should be doing 7.50 but cant handle his new run up speed yet) , oh and a 10.9 for the 100m.... he is very bouncy and has a pretty high Type 2 ration, but ca also run a 4.25 for the 1500m...he's a very promising decathlete....
Whats his name? I do 400m myself and used to pole vault, is he called Sebastian?Not done 10.9 for 100m though so not sure if he is the guy?
bales said:
Jeux said:
an 18 year old I am writting sessions for at the moment has made some very good progress this year - he weights about 68kg, and is now cleaning 107.5kg, has run a 48.20 electric for the 400m, jumped 2m high jump, and long jumped 7.15 ( should be doing 7.50 but cant handle his new run up speed yet) , oh and a 10.9 for the 100m.... he is very bouncy and has a pretty high Type 2 ration, but ca also run a 4.25 for the 1500m...he's a very promising decathlete....
Whats his name? I do 400m myself and used to pole vault, is he called Sebastian?Not done 10.9 for 100m though so not sure if he is the guy?
Jeux said:
bales said:
Jeux said:
an 18 year old I am writting sessions for at the moment has made some very good progress this year - he weights about 68kg, and is now cleaning 107.5kg, has run a 48.20 electric for the 400m, jumped 2m high jump, and long jumped 7.15 ( should be doing 7.50 but cant handle his new run up speed yet) , oh and a 10.9 for the 100m.... he is very bouncy and has a pretty high Type 2 ration, but ca also run a 4.25 for the 1500m...he's a very promising decathlete....
Whats his name? I do 400m myself and used to pole vault, is he called Sebastian?Not done 10.9 for 100m though so not sure if he is the guy?
clonmult said:
One question relating more to "sports nutrition" than shakes.
Do products like the various creatine additives actually help at all - recovery time, strength, etc?
Which ones do you mean...?Do products like the various creatine additives actually help at all - recovery time, strength, etc?
For example, HMB which is something a lot of people take as its supposed to reduce muscle loss during times of poor nutrition or poor training, has little or no scientific evidence to back up that it works.
Creatine however does work, but to different degrees in different people. Creatine is in red meats for example, so if you already eat a lot of red meat, then supplementing it will not have the same effect on you that it will have on a vegetarian. It works by increasing the amount of creatine phosphate stored in your muscle. Creatine phosphate has the job of 'repairing' ADP back to ATP which is what is used as a source of energy during weight training. So supplementing it effectivley gives you the ability to maintain exercise like weight training for longer (i.e. get a few more reps out). It doesnt directly make you stronger but by increasing your capacity to lift a weight, gives you the possibiltiy of training harder, therefore getting stronger. Also, I should add Creatine Ethyl Esther has a better affinity with your body than Creatine Monohydrate, so if you can handle the tast CEE is the one to go for.
clonmult said:
One question relating more to "sports nutrition" than shakes.
Do products like the various creatine additives actually help at all - recovery time, strength, etc?
A bit.Do products like the various creatine additives actually help at all - recovery time, strength, etc?
Not really worth the effort unless you're going to take them longtime: as soon as you stop the effects wear off.
Proper diet,sleep,correct training practice.
Jeux -
"actually your typical power based athlete will have a maximun of about 70% type 2 ( fast twitch ) fibres"
I don't disagree,but that wasn't what I was talking about.
"Your typical Olympic level sprinter will have approx 80% white (fast twitch) muscle fibres."
was actually what I said.It's pertinent because the post I was commenting on was about
the Olympic athlete C.Jackson.
"actually your typical power based athlete will have a maximun of about 70% type 2 ( fast twitch ) fibres"
I don't disagree,but that wasn't what I was talking about.
"Your typical Olympic level sprinter will have approx 80% white (fast twitch) muscle fibres."
was actually what I said.It's pertinent because the post I was commenting on was about
the Olympic athlete C.Jackson.
bales said:
Jeux said:
bales said:
Jeux said:
an 18 year old I am writting sessions for at the moment has made some very good progress this year - he weights about 68kg, and is now cleaning 107.5kg, has run a 48.20 electric for the 400m, jumped 2m high jump, and long jumped 7.15 ( should be doing 7.50 but cant handle his new run up speed yet) , oh and a 10.9 for the 100m.... he is very bouncy and has a pretty high Type 2 ration, but ca also run a 4.25 for the 1500m...he's a very promising decathlete....
Whats his name? I do 400m myself and used to pole vault, is he called Sebastian?Not done 10.9 for 100m though so not sure if he is the guy?
bales said:
Jeux said:
bales said:
Jeux said:
an 18 year old I am writting sessions for at the moment has made some very good progress this year - he weights about 68kg, and is now cleaning 107.5kg, has run a 48.20 electric for the 400m, jumped 2m high jump, and long jumped 7.15 ( should be doing 7.50 but cant handle his new run up speed yet) , oh and a 10.9 for the 100m.... he is very bouncy and has a pretty high Type 2 ration, but ca also run a 4.25 for the 1500m...he's a very promising decathlete....
Whats his name? I do 400m myself and used to pole vault, is he called Sebastian?Not done 10.9 for 100m though so not sure if he is the guy?
People like that are very frustrating for mere mortals like me!!
My cousin who is a 16yr old girl ran her very first 400m yesterday and she is still a year down before she can do it properly and ran 57.7s in horrible blustery conditions when everyone else was a second down on times at least!!
The scariest things is she was smiling away afterwards and didn't even seem tired!!
Talent eh!
My cousin who is a 16yr old girl ran her very first 400m yesterday and she is still a year down before she can do it properly and ran 57.7s in horrible blustery conditions when everyone else was a second down on times at least!!
The scariest things is she was smiling away afterwards and didn't even seem tired!!
Talent eh!
Going back to the original post (sort of anyway!) - can someone explain to me what the purpose is of these protein shakes? I always thought they were for runts to try to get bigger, but I was told at work today that this is not the case. Apparently there are weight gaining mixes (I guess Creatine type stuff?) - then there are muscle repairing mixes?
To give a bit of background - aside from physio/rehab I have not set foot in a gym, since a serious knee injury in 2004. In fact aside from golf, I have done no exercise in this period. This has seen me turn into a proper fatty (hence username!), putting on nearly 4 stone (it was 6 til earlier this year), in the last 6 years.
I am going to be trying to get back into gym, and continuing healthy eating, over the next few weeks.
I know nothing about nutrition, but my plan is to try to burn more calories than I eat, and that is about it. Should get to gym for 90 mins 3 or 4 times a week. So as a fatty looking to lose weight, and then tone up, would I get benefit from these sort of additions? Or am I best to just eat less/better, and exercise? I don't want to make myself ill by burning more than I am taking in - but I also don't need anything that will just make me fatter/heavier..............
To give a bit of background - aside from physio/rehab I have not set foot in a gym, since a serious knee injury in 2004. In fact aside from golf, I have done no exercise in this period. This has seen me turn into a proper fatty (hence username!), putting on nearly 4 stone (it was 6 til earlier this year), in the last 6 years.
I am going to be trying to get back into gym, and continuing healthy eating, over the next few weeks.
I know nothing about nutrition, but my plan is to try to burn more calories than I eat, and that is about it. Should get to gym for 90 mins 3 or 4 times a week. So as a fatty looking to lose weight, and then tone up, would I get benefit from these sort of additions? Or am I best to just eat less/better, and exercise? I don't want to make myself ill by burning more than I am taking in - but I also don't need anything that will just make me fatter/heavier..............
Fats25 said:
Going back to the original post (sort of anyway!) - can someone explain to me what the purpose is of these protein shakes? I always thought they were for runts to try to get bigger, but I was told at work today that this is not the case. Apparently there are weight gaining mixes (I guess Creatine type stuff?) - then there are muscle repairing mixes?
To give a bit of background - aside from physio/rehab I have not set foot in a gym, since a serious knee injury in 2004. In fact aside from golf, I have done no exercise in this period. This has seen me turn into a proper fatty (hence username!), putting on nearly 4 stone (it was 6 til earlier this year), in the last 6 years.
I am going to be trying to get back into gym, and continuing healthy eating, over the next few weeks.
I know nothing about nutrition, but my plan is to try to burn more calories than I eat, and that is about it. Should get to gym for 90 mins 3 or 4 times a week. So as a fatty looking to lose weight, and then tone up, would I get benefit from these sort of additions? Or am I best to just eat less/better, and exercise? I don't want to make myself ill by burning more than I am taking in - but I also don't need anything that will just make me fatter/heavier..............
Protein shakes have many uses:To give a bit of background - aside from physio/rehab I have not set foot in a gym, since a serious knee injury in 2004. In fact aside from golf, I have done no exercise in this period. This has seen me turn into a proper fatty (hence username!), putting on nearly 4 stone (it was 6 til earlier this year), in the last 6 years.
I am going to be trying to get back into gym, and continuing healthy eating, over the next few weeks.
I know nothing about nutrition, but my plan is to try to burn more calories than I eat, and that is about it. Should get to gym for 90 mins 3 or 4 times a week. So as a fatty looking to lose weight, and then tone up, would I get benefit from these sort of additions? Or am I best to just eat less/better, and exercise? I don't want to make myself ill by burning more than I am taking in - but I also don't need anything that will just make me fatter/heavier..............
Whey protein: Is a protein with a very high biological value (BV) which means it is absorbed by your body very quickly, and is often used after training as it is absorbed as quick as possible to be available for protein synthesis... improving recovery and helping to stimulate muscle growth.
Total protein style shakes: These often have a blend of proteins, i.e. high and low BV (casien, egg etc) These can be used with some carb as a meal replacement, or ater training. Bedtime shakes often have mostly low BV in order to provide slower release proteins as you sleep.
Formulas: These can have anything added from creatine, gluatamine, HMB, carbs, electrolytes, caffiene etc... differet combos aimed at different things, e.g. weight gain, recovery etc.
If you are looking to lose weight I would really recommend a shake, a it is adding calories to your diet so you are just going to have to work harder in order to burn them off. If you do want a shake to help you recover after hard training sessions, I would recommend a simple whey shake (true whey from myprtoein.co.uk is very good), lowest cals and simply protein (plus a few things to help your gut digest it with MP true whey)
HTH
Chris
balders118 said:
If you are looking to lose weight I would really recommend a shake, a it is adding calories to your diet so you are just going to have to work harder in order to burn them off. If you do want a shake to help you recover after hard training sessions, I would recommend a simple whey shake (true whey from myprtoein.co.uk is very good), lowest cals and simply protein (plus a few things to help your gut digest it with MP true whey)
HTH
Chris
Do you mean would - or would not?HTH
Chris
BTW - I have just read your other thread. Lots of good info - I am about half way through the thread now.
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