Correcting someone in the gym?
Discussion
Slagathore said:
Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
Yes, rolling the shoulders is incorrect. Basic biomechanics, the shrug is an exercise to isolate the upper traps, but the upper traps only elevate the shoulder girdle so by rolling the shoulders backwards you're moving the emphasis from the upper traps to the muscles that retract the shoulder girdle i.e. mid traps and rhomboidsCan almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
Edited by GMJ on Saturday 31st July 15:03
Slagathore said:
goldblum said:
Slagathore said:
Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
When people do this they are holding the contraction on their traps:not harmful but looks odd.Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
I was told that it damages a part of the shoulder if you do them like that.
Just done a quick Google - this is one of the first ones that comes up [urlhttp://www.muscleandstrength.com/forum/exercises/9990-shoulder-shrugs.html[/url]
Third post suggests it's bad for you. Mind you, I didn't really understand much of it
Your traps take 95% of the weight,the rest is grip.
goldblum said:
Slagathore said:
goldblum said:
Slagathore said:
Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
When people do this they are holding the contraction on their traps:not harmful but looks odd.Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
I was told that it damages a part of the shoulder if you do them like that.
Just done a quick Google - this is one of the first ones that comes up [urlhttp://www.muscleandstrength.com/forum/exercises/9990-shoulder-shrugs.html[/url]
Third post suggests it's bad for you. Mind you, I didn't really understand much of it
Your traps take 95% of the weight,the rest is grip.
I still consider it to be incorrect form, going on what I've read and what GMJ has said above.
Each to their own.
Slagathore said:
goldblum said:
Slagathore said:
goldblum said:
Slagathore said:
Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
When people do this they are holding the contraction on their traps:not harmful but looks odd.Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
I was told that it damages a part of the shoulder if you do them like that.
Just done a quick Google - this is one of the first ones that comes up [urlhttp://www.muscleandstrength.com/forum/exercises/9990-shoulder-shrugs.html[/url]
Third post suggests it's bad for you. Mind you, I didn't really understand much of it
Your traps take 95% of the weight,the rest is grip.
I still consider it to be incorrect form, going on what I've read and what GMJ has said above.
Each to their own.
Stretch pec minor (most pec stretches also target pec minor) and find an exercise to strengthen serratus anterior and I mean strength endurance not strength as in I must lift as much weight as possible.
Also look to do more rowing type resistance work such as seated row, bent over row etc.
Edited by GMJ on Saturday 31st July 15:15
Slagathorne -
"Possibly, when I make circular motions I can feel some clicking. I can only imagine that would get worse when weight is added to the equation.
I still consider it to be incorrect form, going on what I've read and what GMJ has said above.
Each to their own. "
The clicking will be a slightly inflamed tendon.There are various impingement exercises
designed to highlight which tendon it is.If you are injured you should not exercise that bodypart.
.
"Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them."
You wrote this...and you do the very same exercise yourself? Hahaha
"Possibly, when I make circular motions I can feel some clicking. I can only imagine that would get worse when weight is added to the equation.
I still consider it to be incorrect form, going on what I've read and what GMJ has said above.
Each to their own. "
The clicking will be a slightly inflamed tendon.There are various impingement exercises
designed to highlight which tendon it is.If you are injured you should not exercise that bodypart.
.
"Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them."
You wrote this...and you do the very same exercise yourself? Hahaha
Without seeing your shoulder it's difficult to tell but it's not an injuried it's mis-aligned. But this could very easily lead to an injury.
Chances are you sit at a desk all day or you drive a lot for work. This means you most likely have rounded shoulders so your shoulder joint is not in the correct position hence the click which most likely is a tendon.
Obviously, this isn't great when you start loading the shoulder joint with weight.
What I wrote above will, in time, help to sort the problem out.
It would be best to avoid pec and lat work because these will make the problem worse.
I probably should point out at this point that I do this for a living.
Chances are you sit at a desk all day or you drive a lot for work. This means you most likely have rounded shoulders so your shoulder joint is not in the correct position hence the click which most likely is a tendon.
Obviously, this isn't great when you start loading the shoulder joint with weight.
What I wrote above will, in time, help to sort the problem out.
It would be best to avoid pec and lat work because these will make the problem worse.
I probably should point out at this point that I do this for a living.
Tricky one this.
You can't assume someone is training for the same goals as you, and therefore what they are doing might suit them, or might have been shown to them by another trainer as being right for whatever reason.
If someone looks like a real novice, then they normally appreciate a few pointers, especially if they new to the gym, it also means they now know another friendly face.
If someone looks like they have been going to the gym for a while, you have to assume they know something.
Must admit, I saw a guy recently squatting with a fairly big weights, and he literally looked like he was going to break his back.
Because of the weight he was working with obviously meant he wasn't new to the gym, and fair play to him, as most people don't bother doing any legs, let alone squats.
Asked if he wanted spot, said he ok, so I left him to it, but was still fascinated by his weird technique
You can't assume someone is training for the same goals as you, and therefore what they are doing might suit them, or might have been shown to them by another trainer as being right for whatever reason.
If someone looks like a real novice, then they normally appreciate a few pointers, especially if they new to the gym, it also means they now know another friendly face.
If someone looks like they have been going to the gym for a while, you have to assume they know something.
Must admit, I saw a guy recently squatting with a fairly big weights, and he literally looked like he was going to break his back.
Because of the weight he was working with obviously meant he wasn't new to the gym, and fair play to him, as most people don't bother doing any legs, let alone squats.
Asked if he wanted spot, said he ok, so I left him to it, but was still fascinated by his weird technique
I think it's hard to tell: I would not, because you never know how someone will react. However, I'm forever grateful to the guy in my gym who, when I was starting out, saw me doing various exercises very wrongly and took time and patience to sort it out. We're good mates these days, actually.
He hasn't tried to touch me inappropriately either. Which is nice.
He hasn't tried to touch me inappropriately either. Which is nice.
I do tend to advise someone i've just spotted on barbell/dumbbell pressing to try to get used to having their thumb under the bar.
For me personally, I can balance the bar on my palms and not waste energy gripping the f
k out of the bar.. so I tell the person i've spotted to give it a go another day because they'd most likely improve quicker and would be working the correct muscles.
For me personally, I can balance the bar on my palms and not waste energy gripping the f
k out of the bar.. so I tell the person i've spotted to give it a go another day because they'd most likely improve quicker and would be working the correct muscles.Always a difficult one, regarding the advice of getting a staff member to have a word I'm not sure I'd have that much faith in them either. I've never seen a gym "trainer" actually show someone the correct way to use an ergo and on more than one occasion I've seen them give advice that would actually result in injury!
I most don't bother anymore. I went through a helpful phase and all the gym warriors just seemed to scuff at me because I wasn't wearing weightlifting gloves so fk 'em. I'd rather they injured themselves and stayed at home. That way, my gym gets their money but I don't have to spend 45 minutes waiting for the (one and only olympic) barbell.
k 'em. I'd rather they injured themselves and stayed at home. That way, my gym gets their money but I don't have to spend 45 minutes waiting for the (one and only olympic) barbell.KaraK said:
Always a difficult one, regarding the advice of getting a staff member to have a word I'm not sure I'd have that much faith in them either. I've never seen a gym "trainer" actually show someone the correct way to use an ergo and on more than one occasion I've seen them give advice that would actually result in injury!
for people that are supposedly trained and certified, they seem to be jack of all trades and master of none.They could do wonders with a fat bird off the street but maybe not with someone wanting to build themselves up... The main reason for this is that gyms like LA Fitness (I trained at one when I broke a shoulder because of a cycling accident) have very basic equipment, and not decent equipment like Hammer Strength.
A half decent heavy weights gym goer would usually make much better use of the limited equipment at LA Fitness etc than the PT.
Sorry to generalise but from my experience, a heavy weights gym doesn't have 3 or 4 PT's like you get in the fitness gyms, and that's most likely because they are independents and not chains, and therefore can't afford to.
GMJ said:
Slagathore said:
Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
Yes, rolling the shoulders is incorrect. Basic biomechanics, the shrug is an exercise to isolate the upper traps, but the upper traps only elevate the shoulder girdle so by rolling the shoulders backwards you're moving the emphasis from the upper traps to the muscles that retract the shoulder girdle i.e. mid traps and rhomboidsCan almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
Edited by GMJ on Saturday 31st July 15:03
"I probably should point out at this point that I do this for a living."
I doubt anyone on PH gives a monkeys what you do for a living.The fact that you're
wrong means you should probably stick to Spinning classes and Swiss Ball techniques.
Bodybuilding.com -
Variations: You can also rotate your shoulders as you go up, going in a semicircular motion from front to rear. However this version is not good for people with shoulder problems. In addition, this exercise can be performed with the barbell behind the back, with dumbbells by the side, a smith machine or with a shrug machine.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/...
Edited by goldblum on Monday 2nd August 13:48
I follow the rule posted earlier of 'only if they're weaker than me'. Most of the idiots in my gym only come in to bench press or bicep curl for a full hour then go home, most of them with terrible form but hey, they only come in to make a point that they've got massive arms and are therefore hard as nails.
I've corrected some complete newbies in the past, one young lad going for what appeared be a stiff legged dead lift with 80KG on the bar and and big bend in his back, he seemed happy to have someone show him as the instructors are non-existent. That said, another chap dressed in jeans and a Mackenzie top was trying to bench press 60KG on the Smith machine, I asked him if he wanted a spot, to which he said no and then promptly ended up with the weight hovering above his chest. Idiot.
I've corrected some complete newbies in the past, one young lad going for what appeared be a stiff legged dead lift with 80KG on the bar and and big bend in his back, he seemed happy to have someone show him as the instructors are non-existent. That said, another chap dressed in jeans and a Mackenzie top was trying to bench press 60KG on the Smith machine, I asked him if he wanted a spot, to which he said no and then promptly ended up with the weight hovering above his chest. Idiot.
Edited by Nardies on Monday 2nd August 14:16
Edited by Nardies on Monday 2nd August 14:17
goldblum said:
GMJ said:
Slagathore said:
Shrugs!!
Can almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
Yes, rolling the shoulders is incorrect. Basic biomechanics, the shrug is an exercise to isolate the upper traps, but the upper traps only elevate the shoulder girdle so by rolling the shoulders backwards you're moving the emphasis from the upper traps to the muscles that retract the shoulder girdle i.e. mid traps and rhomboidsCan almost guarantee each time I go to the gym there will be someone doing them wrong. Rolling the shoulders in a circular motion, can't be good, according to what I've read about correct form when performing them.
Edited by GMJ on Saturday 31st July 15:03
"I probably should point out at this point that I do this for a living."
I doubt anyone on PH gives a monkeys what you do for a living.The fact that you're
wrong means you should probably stick to Spinning classes and Swiss Ball techniques.
Bodybuilding.com -
Variations: You can also rotate your shoulders as you go up, going in a semicircular motion from front to rear. However this version is not good for people with shoulder problems. In addition, this exercise can be performed with the barbell behind the back, with dumbbells by the side, a smith machine or with a shrug machine.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/...
Edited by goldblum on Monday 2nd August 13:48
The fact that I'm a personal trainer adds some weight to the information that I gave to the guy with the clicking shoulder to help him sort the problem. That was all. Please don't quote out of context.
I have no idea why you seem to have a problem with me or maybe personal trainers in general but I'm not going to argue with you. What I said about the biomechanics of the shrug move is true. It doesn't mean you can't roll your shoulders I just wanted to point out that it's a bit pointless for an upper traps isolation move.
Edited by GMJ on Monday 2nd August 14:57
I have been working out for a year now and see people making mistakes all the time. When I first started I was working out with some experienced guys so picked up the form for most of the excercises from them. I still watch the experienced guys soemtimes though to make sure I am going ok or if I need to correct something. I did correct a newbie a few days ago who was doing some horrible tri pulldowns but he was great and thanked me after
My gym is ok to be fair. Some nice guys there. You do get a few posers but they keep themselves to themselves and are always polite
My gym is ok to be fair. Some nice guys there. You do get a few posers but they keep themselves to themselves and are always polite
goldblum said:
GMJ -
"I just wanted to point out that it's a bit pointless for an upper traps isolation move. "
Wrong again.
As any time-served weightlifter will tell you,a short rotation of the shoulders at the top of
a shrug forces better contraction of the traps.
In a way you're right when you say traps. Because the mid traps will now be more involved with the movement as the shoulders go back. But in reality will make no difference to the upper traps contraction because they do not rotate the shoulder or move it backwards."I just wanted to point out that it's a bit pointless for an upper traps isolation move. "
Wrong again.
As any time-served weightlifter will tell you,a short rotation of the shoulders at the top of
a shrug forces better contraction of the traps.
I'm not making this up. It's how the human body works.
What you might experience is a greater time under tension because instead of going up and down your going up, rotate, down.
Edited by GMJ on Monday 2nd August 16:06
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