Discussion
The_Doc said:
3) don't bother with a chiropracter, as has been stated in this thread they are unregulated and even more DIY than the osteopaths
Not an entirely accurate statement there
the NHS said:
At present, two CAM professions are subject to statutory regulation - chiropractic and osteopathy. The statutory regulatory body for chiropractic is the General Chiropractic Council (GCC) and the statutory regulatory body for osteopathy is the General Osteopathic Council (GOsC).
Individuals who wish to practise as a chiropractor in the UK must register with the GCC. In order to do so, they must have a recognised qualification from a registered education provider. Similarly, for those individuals wishing to practise as an osteopath in the UK, the usual route to registration with the GOsC is the holding of a recognised qualification.
sourceIndividuals who wish to practise as a chiropractor in the UK must register with the GCC. In order to do so, they must have a recognised qualification from a registered education provider. Similarly, for those individuals wishing to practise as an osteopath in the UK, the usual route to registration with the GOsC is the holding of a recognised qualification.
As can be seen from the link above NHS are even employing them nowadays and as can be seen from the link below it's possible to see one on referral in some areas;
NHS Direct
so I'd hope they're not all DIY crackpots with nothing of any value to offer.
supersingle said:
Also consider doing some core strength exercises to protect your back in future. HTH.
I've been suffering recently with the same kind of thing. Physio reckons it was a buldging disc at the base of my spine which then put pressure on the nerves in my right leg leading to me being in agony.Now the pain has died down (I used Morrisons extra strength paracetamol & asprin tablets - prescription painkillers did nothing for me!) I've been put on a a regime of exercises which get my back mobile and core ones to try to prevent it happening again.
It might be agony now but as we have shown there will be a time post episode where you'll feel normal again!
The_Doc said:
funkyrobot said:
I have had sciatica related symptoms for a year, then had an MRI in April. They found out that my L4/5 disc has prolapsed. I'm off to see a consultant/surgeon on Thursday (been waiting for 3 months) but am due to start a new job in a week's time. I'm hoping that I won't have to have an op but its likely I will, or so i've been told.
I have a new physio now and am doing core muscle exercises that seem to be helping (i've not had a big moment since Jan, touch wood!!) but i've got numbness and hypersensivity in the little toe area of my left foot.
Is a chiropractor worth seeing as well?
And do you have any idea that I may be able to avoid surgery for a while? I don't want to ruin my new job straightaway lol!!
1) 60% of over 40years olds will have a disc bugle on MRI. Completely normal asymtpomatic people.I have a new physio now and am doing core muscle exercises that seem to be helping (i've not had a big moment since Jan, touch wood!!) but i've got numbness and hypersensivity in the little toe area of my left foot.
Is a chiropractor worth seeing as well?
And do you have any idea that I may be able to avoid surgery for a while? I don't want to ruin my new job straightaway lol!!
2) Numbness in little toe = S1 nerve root irritation. Sacral root and no disc present here
3) don't bother with a chiropracter, as has been stated in this thread they are unregulated and even more DIY than the osteopaths
4) You can avoid surgery for as long as you want, it's your spine, you control the plan. The surgeon is there to explain together the symptoms, the MRI scan and your options. He won't want to operate unneccessarily either.
W.
I'm just getting stuck into the exercises given to me by my new physio, my last one, on reflection, was quite dire!
See the surgeon on Thursday (who is apparently very good) and we'll take it from there.
Oh and by the way i'm 29 which some people have told me is young to herniate a disc, but others have said its more common in under 40's?? Oh well.
Thanks again, and for everyone else out there with this problem, I know your pain!!
Clammy said:
Not an entirely accurate statement there
...snip...
The chiro and osteo councils are effectively self interest groups and aren't really there to work on anyone other than their own behalf. We physios have a similar group (the CSP) but are also regulated by an independent government organisation, the HPC....snip...
I use some chiropractic manipulation techniques, and if I was aggravating symptoms significantly after treatment I'd seriously question what I was doing.
If, as they claim, they can "put disc bulges back in" with manipulation how can they be sure that they won't push them too far? It's hardly a controlled force, and if they aggravate a nerve sufficiently there is the risk of weakness and loss of bladder and erectile function. (And in neck manipulation there's a risk of stroke
)mechsympathy said:
Clammy said:
Not an entirely accurate statement there
...snip...
The chiro and osteo councils are effectively self interest groups and aren't really there to work on anyone other than their own behalf. We physios have a similar group (the CSP) but are also regulated by an independent government organisation, the HPC....snip...
I use some chiropractic manipulation techniques, and if I was aggravating symptoms significantly after treatment I'd seriously question what I was doing.
If, as they claim, they can "put disc bulges back in" with manipulation how can they be sure that they won't push them too far? It's hardly a controlled force, and if they aggravate a nerve sufficiently there is the risk of weakness and loss of bladder and erectile function. (And in neck manipulation there's a risk of stroke
)My opinion of them generally is low. You can't change that opinion.
ive been on co codamol ev night for sciatica. I have just been given a new drug to try by my doc for it - it begins with d but cannot remember the name ( not Dicolfenac ). its supposed to numb the electrical signals going to your brain re the pain. Sciatica is awful and keeps my awake half the night. In terms of a bad back ( i have fractured vertebra + protroding disk ) my miracle cure has been pilates. had tried everything else and a session of this once a week has had miraculous results.
doc maybe you can put me right, the bulg comments are just that a bulg in your back i ask because i have just that at the lower part of my spine to the one side there is a lump, it happened when climbing off a scaffold there was no ladder for last lift so swung out on one of the bars and twisted my back, now i have the pains in legs numbness in both feet and tingles in my toes in the one foot, i've been to a osteopath and what he did helped for a bit but not for long, would you say i have a slipped disc or a twisted spine, to be honest i went to my GP and that wasn't of much help except to give me pain killers, where do i go from here or is it just something i've got to put up with?
many thanks in advance!
many thanks in advance!
JVaughan said:
co-dydramol prescription only is my friend too.....
Do you find that any good? I used to be on Coproxamol, but they stopped prescribing that as it is too easy to top yourself with, and now Co-dyd but it really doesn't seem to have much effect apart from making me a bit dozy.tonyvid said:
JVaughan said:
co-dydramol prescription only is my friend too.....
Do you find that any good? I used to be on Coproxamol, but they stopped prescribing that as it is too easy to top yourself with, and now Co-dyd but it really doesn't seem to have much effect apart from making me a bit dozy.Co-Drydramol works but I have to take things easy at the same time. hot water bottle or back brace for a fre weeks when I have a nasty turn. funny enough, driving the TVR makes it worse !!!.
Best transport I found was my Africa Twin Bike .. sit up and beg style bike, kept my back nice and straight and reduced the curvature of my spine.
jeffm3 said:
doc maybe you can put me right, the bulg comments are just that a bulg in your back i ask because i have just that at the lower part of my spine to the one side there is a lump, it happened when climbing off a scaffold there was no ladder for last lift so swung out on one of the bars and twisted my back, now i have the pains in legs numbness in both feet and tingles in my toes in the one foot, i've been to a osteopath and what he did helped for a bit but not for long, would you say i have a slipped disc or a twisted spine, to be honest i went to my GP and that wasn't of much help except to give me pain killers, where do i go from here or is it just something i've got to put up with?
many thanks in advance!
The bulge you can see/feel will be muscular, disc bulges are far deeper. More than that it's impossible to say from your post.many thanks in advance!
However as has been said above if you get numbness/tingling around your crotch or problems with your bladder or bowel function you should get to A&E pronto.
How long did the osteo treatment last? And did they give you any exercises?
And as far as the GP goes, did you take the painkillers? Most back pain is simply muscular, but the pain compounds as your muscles go into spasm to protect it. If you can relieve the pain the muscles relax and everything sorts itself out.
(I've posted a link to the private physio find a physio website earlier.)
jeffm3 said:
doc maybe you can put me right, the bulg comments are just that a bulg in your back i ask because i have just that at the lower part of my spine to the one side there is a lump, it happened when climbing off a scaffold there was no ladder for last lift so swung out on one of the bars and twisted my back, now i have the pains in legs numbness in both feet and tingles in my toes in the one foot, i've been to a osteopath and what he did helped for a bit but not for long, would you say i have a slipped disc or a twisted spine, to be honest i went to my GP and that wasn't of much help except to give me pain killers, where do i go from here or is it just something i've got to put up with?
many thanks in advance!
You've got a problem, your GP has been no help (sounds like you're not confident in him) Request he refers you on to a spinal consultant in a hospital. With any luck you might get to talk to one, but the NHS has been fmany thanks in advance!
king around with referal pathways as they seem to think healthcare is a business that you can 'manage', so you may be sidelined with a physio. Solution to that: vote Conservative next time (I'm not joking)The 'disc bulge' is the Prolapsed Intervertebral Disc. It bulges into the neural canal, which is a bony tunnel, and you see perhaps 10mm max bulging on a sagital MRI reformat.
You can't see it or feel it directly. Your lump is either muscle spasm, torn muscle, fat or something else negligible.
In medical school we learn that lumps in the abdomen are either:
Fetus, flatus, faeces, fat, fluid or fibroids.
take your pick
The_Doc said:
jeffm3 said:
doc maybe you can put me right, the bulg comments are just that a bulg in your back i ask because i have just that at the lower part of my spine to the one side there is a lump, it happened when climbing off a scaffold there was no ladder for last lift so swung out on one of the bars and twisted my back, now i have the pains in legs numbness in both feet and tingles in my toes in the one foot, i've been to a osteopath and what he did helped for a bit but not for long, would you say i have a slipped disc or a twisted spine, to be honest i went to my GP and that wasn't of much help except to give me pain killers, where do i go from here or is it just something i've got to put up with?
many thanks in advance!
You've got a problem, your GP has been no help (sounds like you're not confident in him) Request he refers you on to a spinal consultant in a hospital. With any luck you might get to talk to one, but the NHS has been fmany thanks in advance!
king around with referal pathways as they seem to think healthcare is a business that you can 'manage', so you may be sidelined with a physio. Solution to that: vote Conservative next time (I'm not joking)The 'disc bulge' is the Prolapsed Intervertebral Disc. It bulges into the neural canal, which is a bony tunnel, and you see perhaps 10mm max bulging on a sagital MRI reformat.
You can't see it or feel it directly. Your lump is either muscle spasm, torn muscle, fat or something else negligible.
In medical school we learn that lumps in the abdomen are either:
Fetus, flatus, faeces, fat, fluid or fibroids.
take your pick
Again thanks for the reply doc, i can now look up for some info on what you mentioned and use it as ammo if needed with my GP to get refered hopefully it wont be a issue.
jeff!
Just seen this thread.
In the late 1990s, I had dreadful sciatic pain- manifesting in my left ankle- which was so bad that I was sometimes bedridden, unable to dress etc. It was probably congenital as both my father and brother had suffered slipped discs.
My GP referred me to a physiotherapist but, after several weeks, not a jot of difference.
Fortunately, I was then on a company Bupa scheme so I was further referred to a specialist in Harley Street.
After MRI scans, he explained that his treatment was effective if somewhat radical.
In short, he administered a massive epidural of steroids. When I say massive, I mean compared to the epidural a woman would be given during labour, designed to be effective for some hours. The one I was given was effective for three months!
This proved to be an instant cure. In the depression of one (huge!) needle, my body went from having the restriction of the Elephant Man to the flexability of a gymnast.
I have never felt even a twinge of that pain since- thank God.
In the late 1990s, I had dreadful sciatic pain- manifesting in my left ankle- which was so bad that I was sometimes bedridden, unable to dress etc. It was probably congenital as both my father and brother had suffered slipped discs.
My GP referred me to a physiotherapist but, after several weeks, not a jot of difference.
Fortunately, I was then on a company Bupa scheme so I was further referred to a specialist in Harley Street.
After MRI scans, he explained that his treatment was effective if somewhat radical.
In short, he administered a massive epidural of steroids. When I say massive, I mean compared to the epidural a woman would be given during labour, designed to be effective for some hours. The one I was given was effective for three months!
This proved to be an instant cure. In the depression of one (huge!) needle, my body went from having the restriction of the Elephant Man to the flexability of a gymnast.
I have never felt even a twinge of that pain since- thank God.
kenny Chim 4 said:
After MRI scans, he explained that his treatment was effective if somewhat radical.
In short, he administered a massive epidural of steroids. When I say massive, I mean compared to the epidural a woman would be given during labour, designed to be effective for some hours. The one I was given was effective for three months!
Childbirth epidural = anaesthetic alone, wears off in 6-12 hours, can be topped-up.In short, he administered a massive epidural of steroids. When I say massive, I mean compared to the epidural a woman would be given during labour, designed to be effective for some hours. The one I was given was effective for three months!
Therapeutic/your epidural = Steriod + anaesthetic, acts for months/years
Nothing massive about your dose I'm afraid, I put that into people's knees, wrists, etc
Farly standard tool used by surgeons and anaesthetists, the only thing massive about his treatment I fear, was the bill.
[Minirant]
In 2000 I had a microdysectomy done privately, which failed, also had approx 8 private epdurals (facet and joint) which do work but eventually wear off after a few months.
Now, I'm back to using the NHS
I've been seeing a NHS London consultant for 6+ years, at two supposedly top spinal hospitals and in that time i've had the sum all of f-all done.
I've had no treatment whatsoever.
Apart from X-rays MRIs and fairly recently a discogram where they could not get the needle into the spine l5/s1, two surgeons were using there mobile to ring a higher headshead asking what to do.
None is treatment only looking at pictures
Its a total farce, have just been given a date for Physio, (even though 1 year before they were going to fuse the spine) physio has mow been delayed until end of October this is the first time Physio has been offered to me, to be honest that should have been offered 5+ years ago., can't see it helping at all, spine aches like FCk all day long, I expect they are using the physio as a delaying tactic.
I have very little faith in spinal surgeons, I was forced to leave the first hospital and follow this surgeons career around FFS.
After going to the new central London hospital he has no idea who I was or that I had even had a recent MRI, when he did look on the pc sceen, he scrolled through the scans quicker than you could scroll the mouse from the top of the page to the bottom no more than 5 seconds, oh ant they lost all the axial scans.
Is this the real state of the NHS or have I really been that unlucky.
Please tell me I've been unlucky..
[/Minirant off]
In 2000 I had a microdysectomy done privately, which failed, also had approx 8 private epdurals (facet and joint) which do work but eventually wear off after a few months.
Now, I'm back to using the NHS
I've been seeing a NHS London consultant for 6+ years, at two supposedly top spinal hospitals and in that time i've had the sum all of f-all done.
I've had no treatment whatsoever.
Apart from X-rays MRIs and fairly recently a discogram where they could not get the needle into the spine l5/s1, two surgeons were using there mobile to ring a higher headshead asking what to do.
None is treatment only looking at pictures
Its a total farce, have just been given a date for Physio, (even though 1 year before they were going to fuse the spine) physio has mow been delayed until end of October this is the first time Physio has been offered to me, to be honest that should have been offered 5+ years ago., can't see it helping at all, spine aches like FCk all day long, I expect they are using the physio as a delaying tactic.
I have very little faith in spinal surgeons, I was forced to leave the first hospital and follow this surgeons career around FFS.
After going to the new central London hospital he has no idea who I was or that I had even had a recent MRI, when he did look on the pc sceen, he scrolled through the scans quicker than you could scroll the mouse from the top of the page to the bottom no more than 5 seconds, oh ant they lost all the axial scans.
Is this the real state of the NHS or have I really been that unlucky.
Please tell me I've been unlucky..
[/Minirant off]
Edited by 69 coupe on Monday 4th August 10:45
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