Building muscle in your 40s
Discussion
Before I go any further I should probably confess I'm a couple of years shy of 40 - I hope I'm still welcome here 
I've been really struggling for motivation over the last 4-6 weeks and that Dorian Yates video gave me a kick to put together a new programme.
I can only manage 3 sessions a week max (busy job, three young kids etc.) so I'm going with a traditional 3 day split (Chest, Tri, Abs | Back, Bicep, Traps | Legs, Shoulder, Abs).
I think that up to now I've been trying to fit too much volume into my programme to make up for my lack of training. This is results in a lot of 5 sets of 10-12 reps where truthfully I only ever anywhere near to failure in the last couple of reps of the last couple of sets.
So last night I was reading about setting target total reps over a number of sets e.g. get 30 reps done in 3 sets.
The idea is that you take every set to failure (or just shy of if you haven't got a spotter) but push to hit your total.
I've just done my session on that this morning and really enjoyed it. The total workout was about 80 minutes long and every working set I did felt like it counted.
I'll look to run this for 6 weeks and see how I get on.
I've been really struggling for motivation over the last 4-6 weeks and that Dorian Yates video gave me a kick to put together a new programme.
I can only manage 3 sessions a week max (busy job, three young kids etc.) so I'm going with a traditional 3 day split (Chest, Tri, Abs | Back, Bicep, Traps | Legs, Shoulder, Abs).
I think that up to now I've been trying to fit too much volume into my programme to make up for my lack of training. This is results in a lot of 5 sets of 10-12 reps where truthfully I only ever anywhere near to failure in the last couple of reps of the last couple of sets.
So last night I was reading about setting target total reps over a number of sets e.g. get 30 reps done in 3 sets.
The idea is that you take every set to failure (or just shy of if you haven't got a spotter) but push to hit your total.
I've just done my session on that this morning and really enjoyed it. The total workout was about 80 minutes long and every working set I did felt like it counted.
I'll look to run this for 6 weeks and see how I get on.
Wills2 said:
Dorian Yates was influenced by Mike Mentzer (who in turn was influenced by Arthur Jones), who was an advocate of single working set training to failure and beyond, there are plenty of Mikes workouts and talks on YT giving you the details of a program if you want to follow that route, although without a spotter giving a hand and pushing you doing those routines on your own is a tough ask as you'll find yourself failing before you actually fail. (that's my experience anyway)
Mentzer thought that people were over training and digging too big a hole to recover from before training again, he advocated long rest periods between workouts circa 96 hours, meaning you might only train 2 times a week and only for 30 mins per session including warming up and the working sets.
Link to his training spec for naturals he walks you through it and explains his theory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnWAqZYBfw&t=...
In my opinion, Yates improved on Mentzer's ideas. When I started training, I read all Yates and Mentzer's stuff and came up with a similar programme for myself and the strength increased exponentially. It does still male sense as we get older, particualry as it pays so much attention to recovery. I trained shoulders and triceps yesterday, in and out in forty minutes and I felt a little nauseous, probably because of the forced partials...I train alone. I'm off to work back today, hopefully hit the sake intensity. I'm going to stick to this for 6 weeks which is Yates own suggestion, then take a fortnight lighter training with more reps and a week off before restarting. I will fit in more cardio than he suggests which will inhibit muscle growth somewhat but I'm not training for size and strength just overall strength and fitness so feel I have to give a bit to get a bit if youbsee what I mean. I am overweight and undertrained just now so hopefully this next 6 weeks will help me get some motivation backMentzer thought that people were over training and digging too big a hole to recover from before training again, he advocated long rest periods between workouts circa 96 hours, meaning you might only train 2 times a week and only for 30 mins per session including warming up and the working sets.
Link to his training spec for naturals he walks you through it and explains his theory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnWAqZYBfw&t=...
Personally I am not so sure on the Mentzer/Yates method for older guys.
I used it to good effect when I was younger but for people middle aged and over I think it is just too hard on the entire endocrine system - very easy to get frazzled when you start hitting partials and negatives.
These days I don't even go to true failure as I simply cannot recover sufficiently.
We are all different of course.
I used it to good effect when I was younger but for people middle aged and over I think it is just too hard on the entire endocrine system - very easy to get frazzled when you start hitting partials and negatives.
These days I don't even go to true failure as I simply cannot recover sufficiently.
We are all different of course.
Very very few people can train with the same intensity as Yates, and it nothing to do with juice, to channel everything into such short intense sets take an awful lot of muscle to brain connections well beyond the scope of most people, developing neurological pathways like his takes years.
I really like listening to Menzter's old tapes he's quite witty and he does make a lot of sense when you think about it, I just find that with any program where you're taxing the body so much (even for that limited time) the mental capacity to get through it to ensure it's effectiveness is a big hill to climb when training on your own for most and I couldn't sustain it (too old, too weak) But for a younger trainers with a partner I think it makes a lot of sense.
When I had a training partner I'd get quite a few more reps out, (the magic finger is strong) it gives you a second wind and increases your confidence, having someone assist makes a world of difference at the end of a set IMO.
It's interesting watching those Thurston videos with Dorian as that's the opposite of how he normally trains, he is a volume/strict form trainer normally when he does his own workout films and also you can see the benefit of having a training partner especially someone like Yates.
One thing I had forgotten to do and have started doing again where possible is partial/cheat reps at the end of a set certainly on arms & shoulders as the weight is lighter and form doesn't need to be an overriding safety consideration, I was failing on my last set of 21s so I just swung the bar up and did the last 5 reps as negatives as an example rather than just stopping.
I agree 100% with the last two posters, and I have no intention of training like Yates or Mentzer, merely using my adaptation of it. Back to my roots as I said. I have always used warm up sets and working to one heavy set to failure, occasionally adding drop sets when seriously training, that final set leaving me spent. I am hampered, like many, by training on my own, but I managed the intensity required to build strength levels above average throughout my serious training years and see no reason what what worked before won't work again. Yates says similar in one of his videos. If you find something that works, why change it? I think I've changed routines etc over the last five years or so because I've been 'playing' at it, but I now realise I want to live a longer, more productive life so need to train the way that worked, and I enjoyed albeit in a rather perverse way. I'm only two workouts in, but ail to keep it up and hopefully recruit a decent spotter for chest and shoulder days to help with the positive out of a negative phase.
Quick addition, you guys inspire me on a daily basis reading what you have been up to, thanks to all, and keep on keepin on.
Day off weights tomorrow so gonna hit the tractor tyre flips and sledgehammer workout which will inhibit my 'rest' day but will help the cardio.
Quick addition, you guys inspire me on a daily basis reading what you have been up to, thanks to all, and keep on keepin on.
Day off weights tomorrow so gonna hit the tractor tyre flips and sledgehammer workout which will inhibit my 'rest' day but will help the cardio.
Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 4th July 13:59
272BHP said:
Personally I am not so sure on the Mentzer/Yates method for older guys.
I used it to good effect when I was younger but for people middle aged and over I think it is just too hard on the entire endocrine system - very easy to get frazzled when you start hitting partials and negatives.
We are all different of course.
I know from experience that this would hit my joints and connective tissues too hard, resulting in an injury, all be it minor, but a set back none the less.I used it to good effect when I was younger but for people middle aged and over I think it is just too hard on the entire endocrine system - very easy to get frazzled when you start hitting partials and negatives.
We are all different of course.
Legacywr said:
272BHP said:
Personally I am not so sure on the Mentzer/Yates method for older guys.
I used it to good effect when I was younger but for people middle aged and over I think it is just too hard on the entire endocrine system - very easy to get frazzled when you start hitting partials and negatives.
We are all different of course.
I know from experience that this would hit my joints and connective tissues too hard, resulting in an injury, all be it minor, but a set back none the less.I used it to good effect when I was younger but for people middle aged and over I think it is just too hard on the entire endocrine system - very easy to get frazzled when you start hitting partials and negatives.
We are all different of course.
Legacywr said:
I have heard people, Dorian Yates amongst them in his more lucid, compelling moments, talking about Testosterone as a male HRT and claiming its use can be very preventative for many of the conditions we kinda take for granted as being part of the ageing process. Legacywr said:
Me neither. Interesting stuff. I would be very curious to have some of this stuff tested to see what is actually in those bottles, only the problem with all of these things is that users never really know what they're getting. The dosage is inconsistent, usually low, and in the case of steroids, a lot of orals are even mixed with cheaper steroids like Dianabol, which is pretty crap if you're female thinking and you end up with more masculine characteristics than you'd bargained for.
It's a shame they can't just regulate this stuff. I've been around long enough to know how widespread it is, and most of the users I have met are very responsible, with reputable clinics happy to take their money for blood tests. I think they probably deserve some better quality control, and therefore protection and control over what they are taking.
biggbn said:
I have heard people, Dorian Yates amongst them in his more lucid, compelling moments, talking about Testosterone as a male HRT and claiming its use can be very preventative for many of the conditions we kinda take for granted as being part of the ageing process.
I'm in my late 30s, I intend to start regular testosterone testing, and if it drops (making allowance for increased prostate cancer risk) I'll be taking TRT. Normalising the ageing process is all well and good, but let's not also forget it's terminal.
Also, just about every male celebrity you see who "looks great for his age" (Bezos, Ford, Stallone, Swarzeneggar, Gibson) I would be 99% certain to be on at least TRT.
Prof Prolapse said:
biggbn said:
I have heard people, Dorian Yates amongst them in his more lucid, compelling moments, talking about Testosterone as a male HRT and claiming its use can be very preventative for many of the conditions we kinda take for granted as being part of the ageing process.
I'm in my late 30s, I intend to start regular testosterone testing, and if it drops (making allowance for increased prostate cancer risk) I'll be taking TRT. Normalising the ageing process is all well and good, but let's not also forget it's terminal.
Also, just about every male celebrity you see who "looks great for his age" (Bezos, Ford, Stallone, Swarzeneggar, Gibson) I would be 99% certain to be on at least TRT.
Legacywr said:
Touted as an alternative to steroids - but have most of the same sides, aren’t as powerful, and have no long term human testing. Plus many of the ‘formulas’ are ripped off from the originals and may not even be correct. Research chemicals, none of which went to human approval. Steroids for people who don’t want to admit to taking steroids, but less safe.Steroids, on the other hand, all have, most were developed for human treatments and have undergone trials.
watwenwong said:
Touted as an alternative to steroids - but have most of the same sides, aren’t as powerful, and have no long term human testing. Plus many of the ‘formulas’ are ripped off from the originals and may not even be correct. Research chemicals, none of which went to human approval. Steroids for people who don’t want to admit to taking steroids, but less safe.
Steroids, on the other hand, all have, most were developed for human treatments and have undergone trials.
Personally, I think the TRT train has left and the number of people on it is a lot more than we can imagine. It started a decade ago and now almost all the middle aged men I know are leaner and more energetic than they've ever been. While this has helped them, a natural well balanced program is the better way to go. I truly wonder whether the feeling of finally being lean and having muscle will be worth it in the longer-term. Even those that trained with me previously, but got burned out due to poor programming couldn't resist a second wind. Chemically-enhanced seems to have gone mainstream for the middle aged male with an interest in fitness now. Steroids, on the other hand, all have, most were developed for human treatments and have undergone trials.
Carrying from the Mentzer vignette, I took 5 days off as I'd been training quite bit for the last 6 weeks, went back in today to do shoulders and remembered to do those partials when you run out of full ROM steam, but the lack of a partner did show itself on shoulder press as you can't do them alone, although as I was in the smith machine I could have set the bar above that failure point and carried on so I'll try that next time.
Prof Prolapse said:
Also, just about every male celebrity you see who "looks great for his age" (Bezos, Ford, Stallone, Swarzeneggar, Gibson) I would be 99% certain to be on at least TRT.
At least. Some on GH as well. Don't forget these celebrities will also spend a fortune on health tests, blood panels, training experts, heart experts and nutritionists. Not to mention plastic surgery. When someone reaches nearly eighty and looks about 60 (ie Stallone) there's a danger they become a freak show. Edited by popeyewhite on Friday 7th July 17:59
Prof Prolapse said:
biggbn said:
I have heard people, Dorian Yates amongst them in his more lucid, compelling moments, talking about Testosterone as a male HRT and claiming its use can be very preventative for many of the conditions we kinda take for granted as being part of the ageing process.
I'm in my late 30s, I intend to start regular testosterone testing, and if it drops (making allowance for increased prostate cancer risk) I'll be taking TRT. Normalising the ageing process is all well and good, but let's not also forget it's terminal.
Also, just about every male celebrity you see who "looks great for his age" (Bezos, Ford, Stallone, Swarzeneggar, Gibson) I would be 99% certain to be on at least TRT.
Silvanus said:
How does one go about getting TRT? My doctor's couldn't be less interested. I have been suffering all sorts of symptoms of low testosterone so finally did a test through Optimale (2 tests to be sure). It's way lower than it should be. I think it's even causing me recovering from 2 back surgeries last year.
There’s a thread on here if you search. I’m with Optimale.
Legacywr said:
Silvanus said:
How does one go about getting TRT? My doctor's couldn't be less interested. I have been suffering all sorts of symptoms of low testosterone so finally did a test through Optimale (2 tests to be sure). It's way lower than it should be. I think it's even causing me recovering from 2 back surgeries last year.
There’s a thread on here if you search. I’m with Optimale.
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