protein shakes
Discussion
No, I'm not lifting anywhere near that. I'm 12 stone 10lbs. Bench pressing about 7/8 of my body weight, military pressing 1/2 body weight and squatting my body weight. I had really good results when I first started training and I've bulked out quite a bit. I figured that additional protein would assist in getting that bit extra from my training. I'll stick to just the weights for now and see how I go. Thanks for your help.
For future reference, does anyone know the difference between true whey and impact whey?
For future reference, does anyone know the difference between true whey and impact whey?
Reload said:
For future reference, does anyone know the difference between true whey and impact whey?
They are designed to make people think they are taking something special that you don't get from 'normal' food?? 
Sorry not very helpful!Protein is protein imo...the rest is marketing.
bales said:
Yeah 1 rep maxes!! Christ If your repping at those ratio's your doin well!
Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
Military press is difficult for most of us - delts is a group of quite small muscles after all and the emphasis is primarily on just the anterior. Compare the size and mass of them with quads and/or pecs and it's not so surprising is it?Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
LordGrover said:
bales said:
Yeah 1 rep maxes!! Christ If your repping at those ratio's your doin well!
Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
Military press is difficult for most of us - delts is a group of quite small muscles after all and the emphasis is primarily on just the anterior. Compare the size and mass of them with quads and/or pecs and it's not so surprising is it?Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
So heavy lifts are possible and the deltoids,like other small muscles groups respond quite well to heavy sets..say 4x5x5.
Seated shoulder press is a safe power builder,just keep back locked.
If you're really stuck with shoulders...I know several people who have plateaued on delts and have switched
to bodyweight exercises for a while.Handstand press ups develop massive power and balance,just make sure
you have a soft landing!
LordGrover said:
bales said:
Yeah 1 rep maxes!! Christ If your repping at those ratio's your doin well!
Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
Military press is difficult for most of us - delts is a group of quite small muscles after all and the emphasis is primarily on just the anterior. Compare the size and mass of them with quads and/or pecs and it's not so surprising is it?Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
LordGrover said:
bales said:
Yeah 1 rep maxes!! Christ If your repping at those ratio's your doin well!
Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
Military press is difficult for most of us - delts is a group of quite small muscles after all and the emphasis is primarily on just the anterior. Compare the size and mass of them with quads and/or pecs and it's not so surprising is it?Strangely the military press is the hardest I do that regularly and I still can't quite get my BW and I only weigh 73kg!
1. a lower rep range routine (e.g. warm up followed by 3 to 5 sets of c.5 reps)
2. a focus on triceps through dips, weighted push ups or close grip bench press (maybe at a low incline?)
3. some shoulder presses with a wide grip (lighter than normal as the unfamiliar aspect might prompt injury) and from the top of the head (I don't rate presses behind the neck as they have such a rep. for causing injury) to strengthen/ recruit side and rear delts and upper back musculature in the pressing action.
Lost_BMW said:
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3. some shoulder presses with a wide grip (lighter than normal as the unfamiliar aspect might prompt injury) and from the top of the head (I don't rate presses behind the neck as they have such a rep. for causing injury) to strengthen/ recruit side and rear delts and upper back musculature in the pressing action.
Agree - avoid "behind the neck" military/shoulder press at all costs.3. some shoulder presses with a wide grip (lighter than normal as the unfamiliar aspect might prompt injury) and from the top of the head (I don't rate presses behind the neck as they have such a rep. for causing injury) to strengthen/ recruit side and rear delts and upper back musculature in the pressing action.
Also make sure your really warm up all your rotator-cuff muscles thoroughly whenever doing any front-delt or shoulder exercise as it's these muscles that keep the joint stable.
I am also wary of going too wide on any shoulder press exercises for fear of placing too much pressure on the SupraSpinatus muscle & tendon as well as the A/C joint.
dealmaker said:
Lost_BMW said:
[
3. some shoulder presses with a wide grip (lighter than normal as the unfamiliar aspect might prompt injury) and from the top of the head (I don't rate presses behind the neck as they have such a rep. for causing injury) to strengthen/ recruit side and rear delts and upper back musculature in the pressing action.
Agree - avoid "behind the neck" military/shoulder press at all costs.3. some shoulder presses with a wide grip (lighter than normal as the unfamiliar aspect might prompt injury) and from the top of the head (I don't rate presses behind the neck as they have such a rep. for causing injury) to strengthen/ recruit side and rear delts and upper back musculature in the pressing action.
Also make sure your really warm up all your rotator-cuff muscles thoroughly whenever doing any front-delt or shoulder exercise as it's these muscles that keep the joint stable.
I am also wary of going too wide on any shoulder press exercises for fear of placing too much pressure on the SupraSpinatus muscle & tendon as well as the A/C joint.
Using a lighter weight, usually higher reps and after a v. thorough warm up I feel they have helped strengthen my shoulder area and helped prevent or at least reduce the problems I used to get, e.g. lateral raises causing a painful click/grating and being unable to even do dumbell curls (which actually caused it.)
BUT I wouldn't want anyone to injure themselves after reading my blather so am just reporting how I feel (so far, touch wood) they've worked for me. Caveat emptor!
bales said:
Caractacus said:
bales said:
Was doing a 100m! Don't have the red shoes anymore have some gold ones now 
Bling, bling! Ahh, the good old 100m...last time I ran that I was 18 - 20yrs ago now.
What's your best time? Mine was 11.00 flat with a just 'legal' tail wind. I reckon I'd be lucky to post 14.00 flat at the moment (downhill with a big tail wind), LOL.
Thats a very good time btw, who did you run for?
Hope all is on the up and up now though.I ran in the regional finals for my college back in NZ, did nothing after that as my main sport was mountain biking.
My average time was in the lowish to mid 11's, but I do honestly beleive my personal best was a bit of a fluke due to the marginal wind on the day.
bales said:
2x BW for squat (though prob not a full squat) !
Id suggest always doing full squats as they are actually better for your knees in the long run, and will giv ebetter muscle balance - does make me smile in gyms when i see people load up a squat bar, pull some funny faces then squat with a movement barely registereded by the naked eye....hips below knees every time.....
and yes a 2x BW for a 'full' squat is a very good starting point to aim for - but does depend on your body type / height / limb length etc... as a sprinter you should have a reasonable power to weight ratio so you should be doing 2xBW without too much drama... and a 1.5 xBW clean is a good guide as well...
Jeux said:
bales said:
2x BW for squat (though prob not a full squat) !
Id suggest always doing full squats as they are actually better for your knees in the long run, and will giv ebetter muscle balance - does make me smile in gyms when i see people load up a squat bar, pull some funny faces then squat with a movement barely registereded by the naked eye....hips below knees every time.....
and yes a 2x BW for a 'full' squat is a very good starting point to aim for - but does depend on your body type / height / limb length etc... as a sprinter you should have a reasonable power to weight ratio so you should be doing 2xBW without too much drama... and a 1.5 xBW clean is a good guide as well...
Nah I can't squat anywhere near double my bodyweight to the floor yet - I'm not really to fussed about numbers with that, the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers! and thats a good enough reason for me!
If I squat too heavy it detracts from my actual running and given that weights is a supplement to my running then its a bit pointless really.
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.working class said:
Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Don't know how true this from Wikipedia is but interesting if it is.
"Colin Jackson appeared in the BBC One documentary The Making of Me on July 31, 2008 in attempt to find out what had made him such a talented athlete. A sample of his leg muscle showed that he had 25% super fast twitch fibres, when all previous athletes tested had only 2%."
Lost_BMW said:
working class said:
Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Don't know how true this from Wikipedia is but interesting if it is.
"Colin Jackson appeared in the BBC One documentary The Making of Me on July 31, 2008 in attempt to find out what had made him such a talented athlete. A sample of his leg muscle showed that he had 25% super fast twitch fibres, when all previous athletes tested had only 2%."
Because Colin Jackson trained less for power than say,L.Christie he would have less fast twitch fibres.
It seems that the BBC documentary was using a control group of everyday recreational athletes to compare
Colin Jacksons' results to.
It would be interesting to know what Usain Bolts % mix of muscle fibre is.
goldblum said:
Lost_BMW said:
working class said:
Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Don't know how true this from Wikipedia is but interesting if it is.
"Colin Jackson appeared in the BBC One documentary The Making of Me on July 31, 2008 in attempt to find out what had made him such a talented athlete. A sample of his leg muscle showed that he had 25% super fast twitch fibres, when all previous athletes tested had only 2%."
Because Colin Jackson trained less for power than say,L.Christie he would have less fast twitch fibres.
It seems that the BBC documentary was using a control group of everyday recreational athletes to compare
Colin Jacksons' results to.
It would be interesting to know what Usain Bolts % mix of muscle fibre is.
the only way to really accurately test for this is a muscle biopsy, which no international athlete would be inclined to agree to as its very painful and you are taking a small part of the muscle out, and creatig scar tissue in the process..
interetsingly, there have been studies in paraplegics that have shown them to be up to circa 80% type 2, that study ands others concluded that our natual state if a predispostion to type 2 fibres but our environment makes up adapt to type 1..
you'll find that throwers and jumpers will have a slightly higher type 2 level that sprinter as there is absolutely no need for speed endurance in field based athletes and so they train accordingly...and power to weight is less relavant, but explosive power is king... jonathan edwards is a good example.... he used to be nearly a meter up on Christie in a 30m standing start sprint....
and get a good long / high jumper in a standing vertical jump come agaijnst a sprinter and th esprinter will be a good 10% down... horses for courses.... intersting subject though...
Jeux said:
goldblum said:
Lost_BMW said:
working class said:
Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Don't know how true this from Wikipedia is but interesting if it is.
"Colin Jackson appeared in the BBC One documentary The Making of Me on July 31, 2008 in attempt to find out what had made him such a talented athlete. A sample of his leg muscle showed that he had 25% super fast twitch fibres, when all previous athletes tested had only 2%."
Because Colin Jackson trained less for power than say,L.Christie he would have less fast twitch fibres.
It seems that the BBC documentary was using a control group of everyday recreational athletes to compare
Colin Jacksons' results to.
It would be interesting to know what Usain Bolts % mix of muscle fibre is.
the only way to really accurately test for this is a muscle biopsy, which no international athlete would be inclined to agree to as its very painful and you are taking a small part of the muscle out, and creatig scar tissue in the process..
interetsingly, there have been studies in paraplegics that have shown them to be up to circa 80% type 2, that study ands others concluded that our natual state if a predispostion to type 2 fibres but our environment makes up adapt to type 1..
you'll find that throwers and jumpers will have a slightly higher type 2 level that sprinter as there is absolutely no need for speed endurance in field based athletes and so they train accordingly...and power to weight is less relavant, but explosive power is king... jonathan edwards is a good example.... he used to be nearly a meter up on Christie in a 30m standing start sprint....
and get a good long / high jumper in a standing vertical jump come agaijnst a sprinter and th esprinter will be a good 10% down... horses for courses.... intersting subject though...
2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
Edited by balders118 on Friday 2nd July 11:54
balders118 said:
Jeux said:
goldblum said:
Lost_BMW said:
working class said:
Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Don't know how true this from Wikipedia is but interesting if it is.
"Colin Jackson appeared in the BBC One documentary The Making of Me on July 31, 2008 in attempt to find out what had made him such a talented athlete. A sample of his leg muscle showed that he had 25% super fast twitch fibres, when all previous athletes tested had only 2%."
Because Colin Jackson trained less for power than say,L.Christie he would have less fast twitch fibres.
It seems that the BBC documentary was using a control group of everyday recreational athletes to compare
Colin Jacksons' results to.
It would be interesting to know what Usain Bolts % mix of muscle fibre is.
the only way to really accurately test for this is a muscle biopsy, which no international athlete would be inclined to agree to as its very painful and you are taking a small part of the muscle out, and creatig scar tissue in the process..
interetsingly, there have been studies in paraplegics that have shown them to be up to circa 80% type 2, that study ands others concluded that our natual state if a predispostion to type 2 fibres but our environment makes up adapt to type 1..
you'll find that throwers and jumpers will have a slightly higher type 2 level that sprinter as there is absolutely no need for speed endurance in field based athletes and so they train accordingly...and power to weight is less relavant, but explosive power is king... jonathan edwards is a good example.... he used to be nearly a meter up on Christie in a 30m standing start sprint....
and get a good long / high jumper in a standing vertical jump come agaijnst a sprinter and th esprinter will be a good 10% down... horses for courses.... intersting subject though...
2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
Edited by balders118 on Friday 2nd July 11:54
btw you missed type IIAB(x) fibres out there...;-)
then there is always the muscle hyperplasia argument to discuss as well as hyperthrophy...
Jeux said:
balders118 said:
Jeux said:
goldblum said:
Lost_BMW said:
working class said:
Lost_BMW said:
bales said:
the more I read and hear about the top sprinters and speed training the less emphasis there is on numbers, neither Bolt, Gay or Powell have particularly impressive gym numbers!
Being a bit of an anorak about various athletes' weight training, lifts etc. I'd be v.interested to hear what you know about the stats. and especially anything about the types of routines they follow/ lifts they prioritise etc. Cheers.Don't know how true this from Wikipedia is but interesting if it is.
"Colin Jackson appeared in the BBC One documentary The Making of Me on July 31, 2008 in attempt to find out what had made him such a talented athlete. A sample of his leg muscle showed that he had 25% super fast twitch fibres, when all previous athletes tested had only 2%."
Because Colin Jackson trained less for power than say,L.Christie he would have less fast twitch fibres.
It seems that the BBC documentary was using a control group of everyday recreational athletes to compare
Colin Jacksons' results to.
It would be interesting to know what Usain Bolts % mix of muscle fibre is.
the only way to really accurately test for this is a muscle biopsy, which no international athlete would be inclined to agree to as its very painful and you are taking a small part of the muscle out, and creatig scar tissue in the process..
interetsingly, there have been studies in paraplegics that have shown them to be up to circa 80% type 2, that study ands others concluded that our natual state if a predispostion to type 2 fibres but our environment makes up adapt to type 1..
you'll find that throwers and jumpers will have a slightly higher type 2 level that sprinter as there is absolutely no need for speed endurance in field based athletes and so they train accordingly...and power to weight is less relavant, but explosive power is king... jonathan edwards is a good example.... he used to be nearly a meter up on Christie in a 30m standing start sprint....
and get a good long / high jumper in a standing vertical jump come agaijnst a sprinter and th esprinter will be a good 10% down... horses for courses.... intersting subject though...
2b being the classic fast twitch glycolytic fibre, 2a being a fast twitch, oxidative fibre (essential pert way in between 1, and 2b) and type 1 being slow oxaditive.
Early research in humans suggested that, although fibres of one type could take on some of the characteristics of fibres of another type as a result of training (e.g. fast twitch fibres may become more ‘oxidative’ as a result of aerobic endurance training), actual conversion did not occur.
Some recent studies suggest that conversion may be possible in humans (e.g. a combination of high-intensity resistance training and short-interval speed work may lead to a conversion of Type I to Type IIa fibres)
So essentially what i'm trying to say is that if fibres can change types (1, and 2a) its unlikely that this will happen to a large degree. i.e. sprint or power athletes have a lot of fast twitch fibres because they were born with a genetic make up for a high percentage of fast twitch fibres, which makes them a good sprinter, rather than as a result of training.
ETA: so you could find a fat, middle aged lazy man with a huge percentage of fast twitch fibres (as many as usain boult for example) but he never took up sprinting, so never trained, so never developed as a sprinter
Edited by balders118 on Friday 2nd July 11:54
btw you missed type IIAB(x) fibres out there...;-)
then there is always the muscle hyperplasia argument to discuss as well as hyperthrophy...
Hyperplasia doesn't happen in adults, only very young infants, maybe even only in deveoplment in the womb (I can't quite remember). At least, all (that I have read) the evidence suggests that muscle growth in humans is down to hypertrophy, and not hyerplasia. However, hyperplasia does take place in some animals with extremely heavy weight training.
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