Anyone comment on my herniated disc MRI?
Discussion
Had severe right shoulder and elbow pain now for a 5-6 weeks so took the plunge yesterday and went for an MRI.
I'm no radiologist but even I can spot the problem. I'm wondering if anyone who has had similar or is expert can offer opinions.
I'm still waiting for the radiologist's report, but to me it looks quite serious. My physical therapist said 'That's a nasty one', but I don't know how bad is bad - the pain tells me it's severe.
So here for comparison is the C5-C6 scan - everything looks normal.
You can see my vocal cords - (the 'A' shaped structure at the top on the RH image). Moving down the RH image, next you can see the disc, the dark grey inverted kidney/oval shape.
Below that we see the thecal sac containing the spinal fluid - bright white, with the spinal column in the centre (grey structure which looks like Stewie's head from Family Guy ). Below that we see the white 'Y' shaped area which is the vertebrae.
Now we move down to C6-7
On the right hand side the oval structure at the top is my trachea, below that we see the disc is herniated, there is little or no thecal sac area present and the spinal column is being pushed markedly towards the vertebrae. There is also evidence that the disc is encroaching on the foramen on the LHS which likely explains the excruciating shoulder/arm pain.
I'm worried that the pressure against the spinal column might lead to further complications - at the moment I'm not suffering any lower body pain, dizzyness etc.
Am I looking at surgery?
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
I'm no radiologist but even I can spot the problem. I'm wondering if anyone who has had similar or is expert can offer opinions.
I'm still waiting for the radiologist's report, but to me it looks quite serious. My physical therapist said 'That's a nasty one', but I don't know how bad is bad - the pain tells me it's severe.
So here for comparison is the C5-C6 scan - everything looks normal.
You can see my vocal cords - (the 'A' shaped structure at the top on the RH image). Moving down the RH image, next you can see the disc, the dark grey inverted kidney/oval shape.
Below that we see the thecal sac containing the spinal fluid - bright white, with the spinal column in the centre (grey structure which looks like Stewie's head from Family Guy ). Below that we see the white 'Y' shaped area which is the vertebrae.
Now we move down to C6-7
On the right hand side the oval structure at the top is my trachea, below that we see the disc is herniated, there is little or no thecal sac area present and the spinal column is being pushed markedly towards the vertebrae. There is also evidence that the disc is encroaching on the foramen on the LHS which likely explains the excruciating shoulder/arm pain.
I'm worried that the pressure against the spinal column might lead to further complications - at the moment I'm not suffering any lower body pain, dizzyness etc.
Am I looking at surgery?
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Have a bulge rather than full herniation and traction plus physio / Alexander Technique helped.
Your case does look more severe; so I'd say "go see a specialist asap"
Treatment is mainly for pain relief.
There's a lot of info online like at http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/herniated-d...
Your case does look more severe; so I'd say "go see a specialist asap"
Treatment is mainly for pain relief.
There's a lot of info online like at http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/herniated-d...
The_Doc said:
Only a spinal or neurosurgeon can answer your questions, nobody else really. Sorry
Thanks for the reply and I fully appreciate that.It's the waiting game though isn't? I've been suffering probably six weeks now. Last weekend had me awake at 1 am with it feeling like some one was ripping my triceps out of the back of my arm whilst simultaneously drilling a hole into the top of my shoulder.
It lasted for about three hours before subsiding and had I not had Little Ex staying with me I would've called 999 - never in my life have I felt pain like it, and in all honesty I was on the sofa bawling my eyes out begging for the pain to stop.
I'm on a cocktail of NSAIs - currently Ponstan & Tramadol & Amitriptyline, also been getting acupuncture, physical therapy and recently oisin bio-energy therapy - strangely the bio-energy treatments have given me the best relief.
As said I'm just asking for comments and experience from anyone with or who has encountered similar. Problem shared is halved and all that. This last week has been tough, and I've felt myself getting very depressed about it all.
I can't sit in a chair for very long before the pain erupts down my arm and the pins and needles crawl up through my hand and into the wrist. (I've had to get up and walk around three times whilst making this post!)
Sitting I just can't do, standing is ok for maybe 30-40 minutes, lying flat is a complete no-no - I was in big pain after the 15-20 mins in the MRI chamber.
If I lie propped up at about 30 degrees it seems better but I still can't get more than about 40 mins sleep before I'm woken and have to go walk about to try and stop the pain.
The meds take the edge off it but the ache is always still there.
I'm high as a kite right now from the meds and still I have to get up every ten minutes and walk around to try and ease it all.
If some one told me you need to suck donkey dick whilst fingering the anus of a goat to fix it I'd be first in the queue.
J1JPE said:
Treatment is mainly for pain relief.
Yep, I'm trying everything available 
J1JPE said:
There's a lot of info online like at http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/herniated-d...
I've read and watched pretty much all their content before posting my MRI images.It does seem it is very different for every individual. I just want the pain to stop (see my earlier post), I'm at the point where I'll try anything, anyone got a donkey and goat available?
No experience of the problem but plenty of experience with severe chronic pain, now fairly well controlled. Just wanted not to read and run really. Much sympathy, it sounds vile. Your local hospital will have a pain management team of some description (there seem to be almost as many names as there are NHS trusts), the criteria for referral to them vary, but my layman's instinct is that 'in floods of tears and considering calling 999' probably ought to qualify. There's no shame in a hospital trip for pain management if that's what it takes, no doctor would think the level of agony you're currently getting is a reasonable state to leave you in.
A practical thought about sleeping - there's a thing called a 'mattress genie' that might conceivably help you find comfier sleeping positions/give you ways to vary your position more easily - no idea if there's any particular risk factor for what you're dealing with or anything, but they're relatively affordable and very effective for the job. They're a little noisy when in the process of increasing the angle, and are otherwise silent.
A practical thought about sleeping - there's a thing called a 'mattress genie' that might conceivably help you find comfier sleeping positions/give you ways to vary your position more easily - no idea if there's any particular risk factor for what you're dealing with or anything, but they're relatively affordable and very effective for the job. They're a little noisy when in the process of increasing the angle, and are otherwise silent.
FlyingMeeces said:
Just wanted not to read and run really.
One of the warmest posts I've read on here in years. Thank you!I know I'm on my own with this, it's the fight against the depression that is driving me down at the moment. Can't help my parents who are in their 80s and then Little Ex (ten) and getting fed up that Dad doesn't play cricket, golf, tennis, hurling with him any more.
It's a miserable place to be.
TheExcession said:
Had severe right shoulder and elbow pain now for a 5-6 weeks so took the plunge yesterday and went for an MRI.
I'm no radiologist but even I can spot the problem. I'm wondering if anyone who has had similar or is expert can offer opinions.
I'm still waiting for the radiologist's report, but to me it looks quite serious. My physical therapist said 'That's a nasty one', but I don't know how bad is bad - the pain tells me it's severe.
So here for comparison is the C5-C6 scan - everything looks normal.
You can see my vocal cords - (the 'A' shaped structure at the top on the RH image). Moving down the RH image, next you can see the disc, the dark grey inverted kidney/oval shape.
Below that we see the thecal sac containing the spinal fluid - bright white, with the spinal column in the centre (grey structure which looks like Stewie's head from Family Guy ). Below that we see the white 'Y' shaped area which is the vertebrae.
Now we move down to C6-7
On the right hand side the oval structure at the top is my trachea, below that we see the disc is herniated, there is little or no thecal sac area present and the spinal column is being pushed markedly towards the vertebrae. There is also evidence that the disc is encroaching on the foramen on the LHS which likely explains the excruciating shoulder/arm pain.
I'm worried that the pressure against the spinal column might lead to further complications - at the moment I'm not suffering any lower body pain, dizzyness etc.
Am I looking at surgery?
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
So I am a doctor but NOT a neurosurgeon or a radiologist, so take what I say as being an educated amateur and NOT medical advice.I'm no radiologist but even I can spot the problem. I'm wondering if anyone who has had similar or is expert can offer opinions.
I'm still waiting for the radiologist's report, but to me it looks quite serious. My physical therapist said 'That's a nasty one', but I don't know how bad is bad - the pain tells me it's severe.
So here for comparison is the C5-C6 scan - everything looks normal.
You can see my vocal cords - (the 'A' shaped structure at the top on the RH image). Moving down the RH image, next you can see the disc, the dark grey inverted kidney/oval shape.
Below that we see the thecal sac containing the spinal fluid - bright white, with the spinal column in the centre (grey structure which looks like Stewie's head from Family Guy ). Below that we see the white 'Y' shaped area which is the vertebrae.
Now we move down to C6-7
On the right hand side the oval structure at the top is my trachea, below that we see the disc is herniated, there is little or no thecal sac area present and the spinal column is being pushed markedly towards the vertebrae. There is also evidence that the disc is encroaching on the foramen on the LHS which likely explains the excruciating shoulder/arm pain.
I'm worried that the pressure against the spinal column might lead to further complications - at the moment I'm not suffering any lower body pain, dizzyness etc.
Am I looking at surgery?
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
My comments are:
1) I'm not sure that you have herniated your disk. It looks like you have an osteophyte bar at the back of C6-C7 which is reducing the space at that level
2) There is no signal change in the cord itself which indicates that the cord itself isn't unhappy and being squeezed, it might not have any pressure on it.
3) You are getting painful symptoms in your shoulder correct? This would seem to be at odds with a radiculopathy (nerve root impingement) at that level as it should give you symptoms in your hand.
But as others have said you should wait to see a neurosurgeon for advice regarding surgery e.t.c That being said I am not convinced that the C6-C7 impingement is causing your symptoms so don't be surprised if they say its not your neck.
As I said above I am not a neurosurgeon and I may be wrong. If you develop other symptoms please go and see your GP or A&E.
I can only offer a comparison based on my L5 S1 herniation, which was garden pea sized and crushing the spinal cord by nearly 50% and acting on the dorsal nerve root. It caused severe sciatic pain (still does) and led to four surgeries. 1 was a microdiscectomy and 2 was a further one with a laminotomy while 3 & 4 were for the implanting of an electronic neurostimulator.
Yours is bad enough but unless it worsens, you might escape surgery. All the best with it.
Yours is bad enough but unless it worsens, you might escape surgery. All the best with it.
Edited by davhill on Saturday 25th June 22:58
Edited by davhill on Sunday 26th June 15:31
TheExcession said:
FlyingMeeces said:
Just wanted not to read and run really.
One of the warmest posts I've read on here in years. Thank you!I know I'm on my own with this, it's the fight against the depression that is driving me down at the moment. Can't help my parents who are in their 80s and then Little Ex (ten) and getting fed up that Dad doesn't play cricket, golf, tennis, hurling with him any more.
It's a miserable place to be.
Nobody should have to be in pain.
It's cool to seek help with the depression as well/separately, if you need to. I was on antidepressants for a few years, I had reactive depression (run out of ability to cope with something hard, rather than organic chemical imbalance in my brain, basically) but the meds help all the same, kept me a little more on the level while the really hard s
t got sorted out somewhat, probably kept me safe, although obviously that's hard to say for sure, but I don't like to think about how much worse stuff could have got without that help. Can you take Little Ex to stuff like a crazy golf course where you can cheer him on rather than compete? Or bowling alley and borrow the ramp thing - get little Ex to lift the ball on the ramp for you? It's okay to tell him that you're hurting, that you hope it'll get better, that you'll work on finding stuff to do together that doesn't make it hurt worse. Some little kids don't like it if stuff changes, but the bit that counts is he has you at all. Watch F1/the Tour de France/a metric f
kton of Avengers movies* (possibly full of kid inappropriate stuff, check first!) together. Get that app that tells you when the Space Station is gonna be visible and wake him up to go see it. That you're sharing stuff matters far, far more than what it is you do. My daughter was poorly with very complex needs and ultimately didn't get to be big or old enough for my own limitations to really be noticeable to her, but we did stuff together, and it was fun, and it turns out that even very profoundly disabled and unwell 1 year olds get quite into mountain biking if you put them on your knee and 'steer' them round all the bends the competitions take onscreen. 
We went to see it at the Commonwealth Games, nearly 20 months old by then, she went nuts every time they all came past, didn't matter one jot that neither of us could so much as sit on a bike. Well, I'm back again.
I've had another MRI, it looks very much the same as the first one.
I'm getting little pain now compared to how it was originally.
However if I lie on my left hand side I get moderate pain in my left shoulder.
I want to think I'm on the up regarding this, but the one thing that is killing me is that I have pins & needles in both arms & hands. Mainly in the thumb and first three fingers, but occasionally into the little finger as well.
I'm still getting feelings across the back of my hands that I can only describe as being like stung with nettles. The main trigger seems to be sitting in a chair or taking a car journey.
I'm so fking sick of this now that I'm tempted to call up the nuro surgeon and ask him to have a go at it. We met a few weeks ago after the last MRI and he told me he'd prefer to leave it all alone for a few months.
I asked why and he told me often it gets better just by itself, and then he told me 80% of the time his surgery improved the situation, 20% of the time it made the problem worse - and I probably had a 1 in 1000 chance of coming out of surgery completely paralysed.
I did point out that last year Trump was 1-1000 to become POTUS, and we both had a good giggle at that.
It is also true that my father lectured him in pharmacology and physiology at University. He remembers those days and made fond mention of my father's lectures.
But I'm st scared, really scared. I mean, I know I can't quite carry on like this, but the thought of someone cutting open the front of your neck, and then digging all the way through to your spine. It's a long way.
I'm tempted to call up and say 'Yes please have a go at it' - but also qualified with if it goes tits up don't wake me up.
As Trump would probably say 'So scared'.
I've had another MRI, it looks very much the same as the first one.
I'm getting little pain now compared to how it was originally.
However if I lie on my left hand side I get moderate pain in my left shoulder.
I want to think I'm on the up regarding this, but the one thing that is killing me is that I have pins & needles in both arms & hands. Mainly in the thumb and first three fingers, but occasionally into the little finger as well.
I'm still getting feelings across the back of my hands that I can only describe as being like stung with nettles. The main trigger seems to be sitting in a chair or taking a car journey.
I'm so f
king sick of this now that I'm tempted to call up the nuro surgeon and ask him to have a go at it. We met a few weeks ago after the last MRI and he told me he'd prefer to leave it all alone for a few months.I asked why and he told me often it gets better just by itself, and then he told me 80% of the time his surgery improved the situation, 20% of the time it made the problem worse - and I probably had a 1 in 1000 chance of coming out of surgery completely paralysed.
I did point out that last year Trump was 1-1000 to become POTUS, and we both had a good giggle at that.
It is also true that my father lectured him in pharmacology and physiology at University. He remembers those days and made fond mention of my father's lectures.
But I'm s
t scared, really scared. I mean, I know I can't quite carry on like this, but the thought of someone cutting open the front of your neck, and then digging all the way through to your spine. It's a long way.I'm tempted to call up and say 'Yes please have a go at it' - but also qualified with if it goes tits up don't wake me up.
As Trump would probably say 'So scared'.
OP
I had same problem last year but a bit lower down. The prob with a herniated disc is that it has very little blood supply, so it will take a long time to heal. You can speed up the process by way of applying an Ice pack to the area about 4-5 times a day, no longer than about 15 mins at a time. Surgery should be a last option for the reason's you have stated. A cortisol injection may help, but again imv this should be after you have tried the ice pack. It took about 1 week of ice before I could get any meaningful pain relief.
I am no Dr, just my experience of my own events, based of the advise and service's of those that look after Top Sports people.
Good Luck
I had same problem last year but a bit lower down. The prob with a herniated disc is that it has very little blood supply, so it will take a long time to heal. You can speed up the process by way of applying an Ice pack to the area about 4-5 times a day, no longer than about 15 mins at a time. Surgery should be a last option for the reason's you have stated. A cortisol injection may help, but again imv this should be after you have tried the ice pack. It took about 1 week of ice before I could get any meaningful pain relief.
I am no Dr, just my experience of my own events, based of the advise and service's of those that look after Top Sports people.
Good Luck
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 10th February 10:27
My wife had an anterior discectomy and fusion of the vertebrae in her neck a few years back at Queens Nottingham by Richard Ashpole: http://www.neurosurgeon.co.uk/profile.htm
Synthetic "sponge" between vertebre which bone grows into. This IS the one where he dug through the front of her neck to remove the damaged bits. Went fine, no issues, great recovery, pain gone.
I had a ruptured lower back disc. Steroid injection into my spine under local anaesthetic sorted that one at Spire Leicester. No surgery needed.
Fortunately we both have BUPA cover, but that didn't stop our GP going through the "Ibupropen" and "Physio" stages before we each demanded an MRI. MRI showed problems which were acted upon within weeks.
I also had a frozen shoulder a while back. Ibuprofen, Steroid injection, Physio... nothing worked. Back to GP who said "there's nothing more we can do I'm afraid." I said the magic words "I do have BUPA."
"Ah well, in that case I'll refer you to Prof. Dias at Spire Leicester, one of the UK's most eminent shoulder specialists. MRI two days later, keyhole a week after. Sorted it. Back to 100% mobility.
Without private medical insurance you are likely to suffer pain, delays, pain, fobbing off, pain, disability, loss of employment, etc.
PMI is worth it's weight in gold!
Synthetic "sponge" between vertebre which bone grows into. This IS the one where he dug through the front of her neck to remove the damaged bits. Went fine, no issues, great recovery, pain gone.
I had a ruptured lower back disc. Steroid injection into my spine under local anaesthetic sorted that one at Spire Leicester. No surgery needed.
Fortunately we both have BUPA cover, but that didn't stop our GP going through the "Ibupropen" and "Physio" stages before we each demanded an MRI. MRI showed problems which were acted upon within weeks.
I also had a frozen shoulder a while back. Ibuprofen, Steroid injection, Physio... nothing worked. Back to GP who said "there's nothing more we can do I'm afraid." I said the magic words "I do have BUPA."
"Ah well, in that case I'll refer you to Prof. Dias at Spire Leicester, one of the UK's most eminent shoulder specialists. MRI two days later, keyhole a week after. Sorted it. Back to 100% mobility.
Without private medical insurance you are likely to suffer pain, delays, pain, fobbing off, pain, disability, loss of employment, etc.
PMI is worth it's weight in gold!
Has anybody mentioned inversion tables? Guy I worked with had so many back problems he was convinced he had to pack inmworking offshore, but a friend suggested buying an inversion table and it turned his life upside down. (excuse the pun)
Theory is it totally unloads the parts of the back that are otherwise always under compression. Even when sleeping your spine back is being squeezed together in various places, but hanging upside down regularly allows the various parts to decompress and get their shape back.
Theory is it totally unloads the parts of the back that are otherwise always under compression. Even when sleeping your spine back is being squeezed together in various places, but hanging upside down regularly allows the various parts to decompress and get their shape back.
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