Weight gaining! Harder then it seems.
Discussion
After a little dietary help.
I've been going to the gym for circa two years and I've seen a visible change in muscle mass but I've never gone above 65kg in weight. I want to be at least 10kg heavier.
My diet at the moment contains porridge with honey for breakfast.
Scrambled eggs on either a whole meal bagel or two slices of whole meal bread.
Chicken breast with either peppers,, onions etc or with sweet potato, peas, broccoli etc.
Generally have two protein shakes on training days and one on rest days.
I know I need to be eating more!
The question is how much more, and of what!?
I don't want to put on fat ideally which I think is stopping me in my head from eating more. Bloody brain.
Any help would be appreciated!!
I've been going to the gym for circa two years and I've seen a visible change in muscle mass but I've never gone above 65kg in weight. I want to be at least 10kg heavier.
My diet at the moment contains porridge with honey for breakfast.
Scrambled eggs on either a whole meal bagel or two slices of whole meal bread.
Chicken breast with either peppers,, onions etc or with sweet potato, peas, broccoli etc.
Generally have two protein shakes on training days and one on rest days.
I know I need to be eating more!
The question is how much more, and of what!?
I don't want to put on fat ideally which I think is stopping me in my head from eating more. Bloody brain.
Any help would be appreciated!!
Do you regularly change your workouts? The body can get used to a routine quite quickly so its best to keep mixing it up to keep those muscles guessing. For the last couple of weeks, i've been doing triple sets. I leave next to no time between each exercise, it works the muscles hard and seems to help shock them into growth. For example with biceps,
10 reps close grip EZ bar curls
10 reps dumbbell curls
10 reps Dumbbell hammer curls.
Once i've completed those 30 reps that's one set and i'll then rest for a couple minutes before doing another 2 sets.
The weight I use is about 60/80% of one rep max.
After 2-3 weeks, i'll change it again and maybe do single sets again but with heavier weight and less reps.
As for diet, it does seems a bit light maybe especially if you're quite active during the day/work etc. I tend to have quite a bit of tuna, cottage cheese, Greek youghart (not greek style) as well as the obligatory chicken. Nuts and maybe a bit of feta cheese (I love it) as snacks as well as plenty of veg- spinach, beetroot etc.
I use creatine after training as well- seems to work quite well with me but I know it doesn't for everyone.
10 reps close grip EZ bar curls
10 reps dumbbell curls
10 reps Dumbbell hammer curls.
Once i've completed those 30 reps that's one set and i'll then rest for a couple minutes before doing another 2 sets.
The weight I use is about 60/80% of one rep max.
After 2-3 weeks, i'll change it again and maybe do single sets again but with heavier weight and less reps.
As for diet, it does seems a bit light maybe especially if you're quite active during the day/work etc. I tend to have quite a bit of tuna, cottage cheese, Greek youghart (not greek style) as well as the obligatory chicken. Nuts and maybe a bit of feta cheese (I love it) as snacks as well as plenty of veg- spinach, beetroot etc.
I use creatine after training as well- seems to work quite well with me but I know it doesn't for everyone.
Edited by oceanview on Saturday 27th June 18:44
couzens said:
After a little dietary help.
I don't want to put on fat ideally which I think is stopping me in my head from eating more. Bloody brain.
Any help would be appreciated!!
You are going to have to eat more, unfortunately. A hell of a lot more. Probably twice as much as you think is good for you. Loads of high cal carbs (noodles) and protein (tuna) over and over again, for example. It won't turn to fat if you hit the weights hard enough.I don't want to put on fat ideally which I think is stopping me in my head from eating more. Bloody brain.
Any help would be appreciated!!
The dietary advice has to go hand in hand with training advice - hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs but if you're wanting to gain muscle you absolutely have to both eat and train in a way which will stimulate muscle growth. Training-wise, I'd recommend you stick to big compound movements at least for the first 12 weeks or so, as this offers the biggest bang for your buck in terms of stimulating muscle growth overall.
Again, apologies: if you haven't done this kind of training, it's worth purchasing and reading the whole of 'Starting Strength' by Mark Rippetoe.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Starting-Strength-Basic-Ba...
As you know, you're under-eating hugely if you've been training strength for 2y+ and not gaining weight. You've been applying a training stress, without supplying adequate substrate for repair. Protein fulfils two crucial dietary roles: it is a macronutrient – it’s calorific like fat and carbohydrate, and so provides some of the body’s energy. Secondly and perhaps more importantly given your goals, dietary protein is the substrate the body uses for anabolic (growth) processes. A guideline amount is between 1.7-3.3g of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. A lot of that can come from diet, but a whey protein supplement will be very helpful. Working out 'too much' is easy - your guts will advise. Be reasonably generous (i.e. use manufacturer's recommended amount) at first and adjust downward.
Carbs are not bad for you. You need them. For the quickest results during any period where you're working to build strength and muscle, you will find the process easier with higher-than-normal levels of protein in your diet, and with running a slight calorie surplus. It's easier to remove pudge after such a phase than it is to gain strength while being calorie-restricted (although it's not impossible if you're really determined, see the thread on diet). Regardless of training emphasis however, a good rule is to eat as much healthy protein as possible within normal diet from diverse sources including animal, dairy and vegetable. And splurge a bit more - for now.
Again, apologies: if you haven't done this kind of training, it's worth purchasing and reading the whole of 'Starting Strength' by Mark Rippetoe.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Starting-Strength-Basic-Ba...
As you know, you're under-eating hugely if you've been training strength for 2y+ and not gaining weight. You've been applying a training stress, without supplying adequate substrate for repair. Protein fulfils two crucial dietary roles: it is a macronutrient – it’s calorific like fat and carbohydrate, and so provides some of the body’s energy. Secondly and perhaps more importantly given your goals, dietary protein is the substrate the body uses for anabolic (growth) processes. A guideline amount is between 1.7-3.3g of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. A lot of that can come from diet, but a whey protein supplement will be very helpful. Working out 'too much' is easy - your guts will advise. Be reasonably generous (i.e. use manufacturer's recommended amount) at first and adjust downward.
Carbs are not bad for you. You need them. For the quickest results during any period where you're working to build strength and muscle, you will find the process easier with higher-than-normal levels of protein in your diet, and with running a slight calorie surplus. It's easier to remove pudge after such a phase than it is to gain strength while being calorie-restricted (although it's not impossible if you're really determined, see the thread on diet). Regardless of training emphasis however, a good rule is to eat as much healthy protein as possible within normal diet from diverse sources including animal, dairy and vegetable. And splurge a bit more - for now.
Yes I've used createin before and it's not helped.
I've just started a new route in but it's not changed much tbh. After a few weeks I just lose the feel of the burn. I guess that's what's doing it.
I do need to start snacking more, on healthy bits.
I'm thinking of changing my lunch for pretty much what I have for dinner, but a different meat like cod or Turkey.
Are there any specialist websites out there? A quick Google brings up the likes of mems fitness but I find it hard to nail down what I need on there.
I've just started a new route in but it's not changed much tbh. After a few weeks I just lose the feel of the burn. I guess that's what's doing it.
I do need to start snacking more, on healthy bits.
I'm thinking of changing my lunch for pretty much what I have for dinner, but a different meat like cod or Turkey.
Are there any specialist websites out there? A quick Google brings up the likes of mems fitness but I find it hard to nail down what I need on there.
Yes I've used createin before and it's not helped.
I've just started a new route in but it's not changed much tbh. After a few weeks I just lose the feel of the burn. I guess that's what's doing it.
I do need to start snacking more, on healthy bits.
I'm thinking of changing my lunch for pretty much what I have for dinner, but a different meat like cod or Turkey.
Are there any specialist websites out there? A quick Google brings up the likes of mems fitness but I find it hard to nail down what I need on there.
I've just started a new route in but it's not changed much tbh. After a few weeks I just lose the feel of the burn. I guess that's what's doing it.
I do need to start snacking more, on healthy bits.
I'm thinking of changing my lunch for pretty much what I have for dinner, but a different meat like cod or Turkey.
Are there any specialist websites out there? A quick Google brings up the likes of mems fitness but I find it hard to nail down what I need on there.
couzens said:
Yes I've used createin before and it's not helped.
I've just started a new route in but it's not changed much tbh. After a few weeks I just lose the feel of the burn. I guess that's what's doing it.
I do need to start snacking more, on healthy bits.
I'm thinking of changing my lunch for pretty much what I have for dinner, but a different meat like cod or Turkey.
Are there any specialist websites out there? A quick Google brings up the likes of mems fitness but I find it hard to nail down what I need on there.
You don't need specialist websites. You need to eat big, and train big. Sorry to be blunt. Joey above said 'A hell of a lot more' and he's right - your body will find it much easier to produce muscle in the presence of a calorie surplus. You don't have to skip CV work, and you don't need steroids. I've just started a new route in but it's not changed much tbh. After a few weeks I just lose the feel of the burn. I guess that's what's doing it.
I do need to start snacking more, on healthy bits.
I'm thinking of changing my lunch for pretty much what I have for dinner, but a different meat like cod or Turkey.
Are there any specialist websites out there? A quick Google brings up the likes of mems fitness but I find it hard to nail down what I need on there.
You aren't a 'hard gainer'; you're an under-eater.
As others have suggested, eat more.
You can prove them wrong if you don't believe them. Log everything you eat. Aim for 4000 calories a day, eat any old st you want. You will get fat but you'll also build muscle. I used to be ectomorph but somehow I've defied science and become mesomorph. If I get too busy to train, I might attempt to defy science and become endomorph.
You can prove them wrong if you don't believe them. Log everything you eat. Aim for 4000 calories a day, eat any old st you want. You will get fat but you'll also build muscle. I used to be ectomorph but somehow I've defied science and become mesomorph. If I get too busy to train, I might attempt to defy science and become endomorph.
Sorry guys, I'm reading this as if you think I'm asking on ways to gain muscle mass.
It was more asking of what things to be eating, to keep healthy, keep fat to a minimum, but to more importantly gain mass.
I'm aware I need to eat more and I seriously under eat.
I don't think I was clear enough in the initial post.
It was more asking of what things to be eating, to keep healthy, keep fat to a minimum, but to more importantly gain mass.
I'm aware I need to eat more and I seriously under eat.
I don't think I was clear enough in the initial post.
couzens said:
Sorry guys, I'm reading this as if you think I'm asking on ways to gain muscle mass.
It was more asking of what things to be eating, to keep healthy, keep fat to a minimum, but to more importantly gain mass.
I'm aware I need to eat more and I seriously under eat.
I don't think I was clear enough in the initial post.
I'm not sure I understand. If you're not asking about how to gain muscle mass, but you want to keep fat to a minimum, what kind of mass are you trying to gain? Your genetics have given you a finite amount of skin, guts, organs etc. So the only things left to alter are muscle size, stored fat, and for a minor effect, bone density.It was more asking of what things to be eating, to keep healthy, keep fat to a minimum, but to more importantly gain mass.
I'm aware I need to eat more and I seriously under eat.
I don't think I was clear enough in the initial post.
ETA: following on from that and your previous posts, you have been a. undereating, and b. also quite likely failing to apply the correct stimulus for your muscles to grow. Not all training will result in significant muscular hypertrophy as an adaptation, particularly if you fail to supply sufficient substrate for recovery, growth and repair.
Edited for clarity
Edited by MurderousCrow on Sunday 28th June 12:21
couzens said:
Sorry guys, I'm reading this as if you think I'm asking on ways to gain muscle mass.
It was more asking of what things to be eating, to keep healthy, keep fat to a minimum, but to more importantly gain mass.
I'm aware I need to eat more and I seriously under eat.
I don't think I was clear enough in the initial post.
I don't think that is any clearer. You don't want us to advise how to gain muscle mass, but you want to gain mass, but keep fat to a minimum?It was more asking of what things to be eating, to keep healthy, keep fat to a minimum, but to more importantly gain mass.
I'm aware I need to eat more and I seriously under eat.
I don't think I was clear enough in the initial post.
If you want to gain muscle mass you need to be eating a lot of calories. Firstly you need to work out what your resting metabolic weight is. Google this, there are calculators. Then add 250-500 calories per day on to that.
You should be eating 6 times a day. Each meal should have 20-30g protein. This is either one chicken breast (supermaket size / 0.5 for a Musclefood size), or a piece of steak, or 4 eggs, or a tin of tuna. Some decent carbs, i.e. wholegrains (you could eat refined carbs but wholegrains will keep your blood sugar stable and help you resist unhealthy snacking) and at least a piece of fruit or veg. You need to include healthy fats along they way. A chicken and avocado sandwich is good start.
Protein shakes are good for convenience. You can also add instant oats to these for a carb hit.
If you just want to weight more and don't care what the make up is then eat loads of everything. 2 krispy creme donuts, milkshakes, chocolate. Go nuts
Hoofy said:
As others have suggested, eat more.
You can prove them wrong if you don't believe them. Log everything you eat. Aim for 4000 calories a day, eat any old st you want. You will get fat but you'll also build muscle. I used to be ectomorph but somehow I've defied science and become mesomorph. If I get too busy to train, I might attempt to defy science and become endomorph.
You can't change your basic frame structure! By that I mean your natural frame/ bone structure. Sure an ectomorph frame can add muscle but they'll always have a light, narrow bone structure the same as a true endomorph will have a naturally more stocky, rounded build with wide shoulders and hips (heavy bone structure).You can prove them wrong if you don't believe them. Log everything you eat. Aim for 4000 calories a day, eat any old st you want. You will get fat but you'll also build muscle. I used to be ectomorph but somehow I've defied science and become mesomorph. If I get too busy to train, I might attempt to defy science and become endomorph.
Most people tend to have mixture of body types- myself I am an "Ecto/meso". I have a very light bone structure with narrow wrists/ankles but I am able to build muscle quite well particularly chest and shoulders but I've still got the light frame underneath it!
Sorry guys, you'll have to bare with me. In terms of being into the gym and wanting to progress I'm still very new and this is clearly a learning process for me.
When I first started I weighed about 59kgs so I've put on 6kg of muscle I presume as my diet hadn't changed much. There's a physical difference in appearance I just seem to be stuck at 65kg.
As of Monday I have started to have a fuller meal at lunch time as well as fruit in the intrim and also a pint of milk each day, I just find myself bloaty and struggling to finish. I guess once my body's used to eating more I can add to the portion size. Splitting with the girl friend has had a bit of a strain on hunger but I'm managing to persevere with it.
With regards to my exercises, I tired the bicep workout Oceanview suggested and it worked a treat, worked them well to the point of failure, if there's any guides for good workouts please link them.
When I first started I weighed about 59kgs so I've put on 6kg of muscle I presume as my diet hadn't changed much. There's a physical difference in appearance I just seem to be stuck at 65kg.
As of Monday I have started to have a fuller meal at lunch time as well as fruit in the intrim and also a pint of milk each day, I just find myself bloaty and struggling to finish. I guess once my body's used to eating more I can add to the portion size. Splitting with the girl friend has had a bit of a strain on hunger but I'm managing to persevere with it.
With regards to my exercises, I tired the bicep workout Oceanview suggested and it worked a treat, worked them well to the point of failure, if there's any guides for good workouts please link them.
eat unsalted peanuts and other nuts, (I like cashews personally, or pistachios when I can be arsed to shell them), don't go nuts (pun intended) but they have a huge amount of calories, a good handful is like 300 calories.
You could just increase your portion sizes too, add an extra half a chicken breast, an extra egg to your scrambled egg etc
You could just increase your portion sizes too, add an extra half a chicken breast, an extra egg to your scrambled egg etc
Edited by Foliage on Wednesday 1st July 15:02
What do your workouts look like?
Free weights or machines?
Isolation or compound?
How many exercises, sets & reps?
etc...
Suggest you concentrate on the big compound exercises and eat for England. Nothing fancy just lots of meat/fish and fresh veg/fruit plus the odd pint of two of milk. That's proper milk, not the low fat white water.
Free weights or machines?
Isolation or compound?
How many exercises, sets & reps?
etc...
Suggest you concentrate on the big compound exercises and eat for England. Nothing fancy just lots of meat/fish and fresh veg/fruit plus the odd pint of two of milk. That's proper milk, not the low fat white water.
944fan said:
If you want to gain muscle mass you need to be eating a lot of calories. Firstly you need to work out what your resting metabolic weight is. Google this, there are calculators. Then add 250-500 calories per day on to that.
You should be eating 6 times a day. Each meal should have 20-30g protein. This is either one chicken breast (supermaket size / 0.5 for a Musclefood size), or a piece of steak, or 4 eggs, or a tin of tuna. Some decent carbs, i.e. wholegrains (you could eat refined carbs but wholegrains will keep your blood sugar stable and help you resist unhealthy snacking) and at least a piece of fruit or veg. You need to include healthy fats along they way. A chicken and avocado sandwich is good start.
Protein shakes are good for convenience. You can also add instant oats to these for a carb hit.
Do this. If you've gained 6kg, then you must have been doing something right, add a bit more food and carry on. You should be eating 6 times a day. Each meal should have 20-30g protein. This is either one chicken breast (supermaket size / 0.5 for a Musclefood size), or a piece of steak, or 4 eggs, or a tin of tuna. Some decent carbs, i.e. wholegrains (you could eat refined carbs but wholegrains will keep your blood sugar stable and help you resist unhealthy snacking) and at least a piece of fruit or veg. You need to include healthy fats along they way. A chicken and avocado sandwich is good start.
Protein shakes are good for convenience. You can also add instant oats to these for a carb hit.
Don't eat stupid amounts though, or you'll be back here in a few months complaining you took advice and are now fat.
LordGrover said:
What do your workouts look like?
Free weights or machines?
Isolation or compound?
How many exercises, sets & reps?
etc...
Suggest you concentrate on the big compound exercises and eat for England. Nothing fancy just lots of meat/fish and fresh veg/fruit plus the odd pint of two of milk. That's proper milk, not the low fat white water.
Good advice there!Free weights or machines?
Isolation or compound?
How many exercises, sets & reps?
etc...
Suggest you concentrate on the big compound exercises and eat for England. Nothing fancy just lots of meat/fish and fresh veg/fruit plus the odd pint of two of milk. That's proper milk, not the low fat white water.
It is the heavy compounds that make the difference, I think - always push for more weight (within reason..)
I would concentrate on:
Squat
Bench Press
Overhead Press
Bent over Rows (DB and/or BB)
Deadlifts
Your routine should be built around these, IMOHO
If you do that, and as LG says, eat plenty of good food, you should see real results after a few months.
It really is as simple as nail your compound lifts and eat everything. A rough day for me meal wise when bulking (on workout day) is:
Breakfast
4 egg scramble (4 egg whites with one yolk)
Protein shake
Fruit
Mid-morning Snack
Chicken and salad in pitta bread
Lunch
Jacket potato with baked beans, tuna, baked beans
Mid-afternoon Snack
Protein shake
Fruit
Nuts
Pre-workout
Fruit
Post-workout
Protein shake
Evening Meal
Chicken
Rice
Veg
Natural Yoghurt
Before Bed
Couple of boiled eggs
I put powdered oats in my protein shakes as well.
My workouts tend to be 40-60 mins and focus on heavy, low-rep compound lifts. I used to spend hours doing loads of bicep exercises and 24 variations of bench press but learnt over time that 2-3 exercises on each body part is more than enough.
Breakfast
4 egg scramble (4 egg whites with one yolk)
Protein shake
Fruit
Mid-morning Snack
Chicken and salad in pitta bread
Lunch
Jacket potato with baked beans, tuna, baked beans
Mid-afternoon Snack
Protein shake
Fruit
Nuts
Pre-workout
Fruit
Post-workout
Protein shake
Evening Meal
Chicken
Rice
Veg
Natural Yoghurt
Before Bed
Couple of boiled eggs
I put powdered oats in my protein shakes as well.
My workouts tend to be 40-60 mins and focus on heavy, low-rep compound lifts. I used to spend hours doing loads of bicep exercises and 24 variations of bench press but learnt over time that 2-3 exercises on each body part is more than enough.
Everything - and by that I mean absolutely everything - you need to know is contained in Mark Rippetoe's excellent book, 'Starting Strength'. See link in my first post.
The point is NOT to eat more. The point is to apply a stimulus which tells your muscles to grow, and eat enough to support that growth. This stimulus must be repeatable (and therefore must be safe), and it must be scalable, meaning gains continue to accrue. As I said above, the only significant body mass variables you have the power to change (short of voluntary amputation) are 1. fat stores and 2. muscle mass. Eating shed loads without an adequate hypertrophy stimulus will simply lead to increased body fat.
Rippetoe's book covers all the aspects you need to know before you begin the compound lifts others are talking about. Thorough understanding of the physical movement principles he conveys in the book, will ensure you minimise your chances of getting bent out of shape on your quest to gain MUSCLE. Compound lifts are a skill, and that skill is often counter-intuitive, which means it will pay any beginner well to accept that they know nothing, and accept advice from someone who knows their stuff. Although I've a decent knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, I'm pretty new to strength training: his book has helped me enormously.
Given your weight, and assuming you are somewhere around average height, you will make big gains over the first three months or so. These gains will need to be supported by adequate (high-protein) food intake. But trust me, once you start your 'linear progression' you'll most likely find eating the easiest part - you will get hungry.
The point is NOT to eat more. The point is to apply a stimulus which tells your muscles to grow, and eat enough to support that growth. This stimulus must be repeatable (and therefore must be safe), and it must be scalable, meaning gains continue to accrue. As I said above, the only significant body mass variables you have the power to change (short of voluntary amputation) are 1. fat stores and 2. muscle mass. Eating shed loads without an adequate hypertrophy stimulus will simply lead to increased body fat.
Rippetoe's book covers all the aspects you need to know before you begin the compound lifts others are talking about. Thorough understanding of the physical movement principles he conveys in the book, will ensure you minimise your chances of getting bent out of shape on your quest to gain MUSCLE. Compound lifts are a skill, and that skill is often counter-intuitive, which means it will pay any beginner well to accept that they know nothing, and accept advice from someone who knows their stuff. Although I've a decent knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, I'm pretty new to strength training: his book has helped me enormously.
Given your weight, and assuming you are somewhere around average height, you will make big gains over the first three months or so. These gains will need to be supported by adequate (high-protein) food intake. But trust me, once you start your 'linear progression' you'll most likely find eating the easiest part - you will get hungry.
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