Strength & Conditioning for Boxing and MMA
Discussion
There's quite a few posters frequenting the forum who are interested in and even participate in martial arts, and for a few, boxing, so I was wondering - given this is an area I'm very interested in - what are your views on strength and conditioning?
Might be an interesting debate and opportunity to compare experiences, routines and what coaches have said/implemented.
For example, stuff like:
what exercises?
weights or not? (if so, amount of weight relative to 1rm max)
number and speed of reps/exercise
volume
periodisation/routines
and so on...
Plus positives and negatives from own experience.
Might be an interesting debate and opportunity to compare experiences, routines and what coaches have said/implemented.
For example, stuff like:
what exercises?
weights or not? (if so, amount of weight relative to 1rm max)
number and speed of reps/exercise
volume
periodisation/routines
and so on...
Plus positives and negatives from own experience.
markcoznottz said:
I'm helping a couple of boxers and a MMA fighter train at my friends barn. Plenty of resistance to new ideas there, most boxing trainers think a pair of dumbells count as resistance training. My method involves one set of trap bar deadlifts a week , 1x 12 reps in fact. That's it. Nothing else. No curls, no sit ups, nothing. Every other scrap of training goes to gettin fitness levels as high as possible, which tbh isn't my area.
The idea with the trap lifts is to increase the weight each week, or if that's too much, every two weeks. To achieve this I imported some very tiny fractional plates from the USA that fit on an Olympic sized bar, these are 0.125, 0.25, & 0.5 kg plates. You won't find these down your local gym. The idea is to increase each session by 0.25 kg, so small you don't notice it, but it's there alright. Same reps but more weight, it is impossible nit to gain this way. And there you go, very safe, proven to work compound exercise, a year of that and you will be amazed at the results. oh and don't use belts or straps either.
Until around a year ago I'd re-started trap bar deadlifts - sometimes high reps but quite often as low as 2s and 3s. Sold the bar when broke and trying to find more space so have seen a big decline in size of forearms, traps and - possibly - upper back but am really not sure what impact it's had on my boxing.The idea with the trap lifts is to increase the weight each week, or if that's too much, every two weeks. To achieve this I imported some very tiny fractional plates from the USA that fit on an Olympic sized bar, these are 0.125, 0.25, & 0.5 kg plates. You won't find these down your local gym. The idea is to increase each session by 0.25 kg, so small you don't notice it, but it's there alright. Same reps but more weight, it is impossible nit to gain this way. And there you go, very safe, proven to work compound exercise, a year of that and you will be amazed at the results. oh and don't use belts or straps either.
What impact are you expecting/after from this?
The reason for the thread wasn't just specifically for me or related to what I want - 'doubt I'm a fair test or typical as I want it all! Less weight, more muscle, greater strength, more endurance, more speed, more flexibility, greater tolerance of pain etc. etc. And all "now"!
No, it was a general interest thing as I'm fascinated by this subject and the changing attitudes and practices in MMA and boxing. As several posters have said, boxing does seem to be behind the curve still with many coaches/fighters though there seems to be a creep from UFC and its partners in blood with more emphasis on strength work, power, speed and endurance phases and periodisation etc. I'm surprised so far with how little your reporting of this in other more mainstream martial arts.
Do keep the debate and suggestions coming!
No, it was a general interest thing as I'm fascinated by this subject and the changing attitudes and practices in MMA and boxing. As several posters have said, boxing does seem to be behind the curve still with many coaches/fighters though there seems to be a creep from UFC and its partners in blood with more emphasis on strength work, power, speed and endurance phases and periodisation etc. I'm surprised so far with how little your reporting of this in other more mainstream martial arts.
Do keep the debate and suggestions coming!
MMA4life said:
Im still here 
Ive competed about 5x now.
How I train is that I do 2x weights session a week covering the compounds (squats, deads, OHP, Bench, chinups rows). The other days I do intervals on the rower or crosstrainer doing like 6min rounds with 30 secs normal pace, 30 secs flat out. Have a 30-45second rest and repeat for 4-6 rounds. Barbell complexes aswell so like cosgrove evil 8 & FMDH (front squat/ military press/ deadlift/ hangclean).
Heavy bag rounds were/ are usually 3 min rounds, working on combinations of hands/ hands and legs/ hands and knees/ hands, knees, and legs etc. Do crossfit circuits aswell, the ones I enjoy the most are Cindy and Arnie.
That's more the sort of routine I was expecting to be mentioned, but I was expecting it more from the MMA camp than from boxing. It still seems many well known coaches/gyms use weights in circus but usually pretty light and high rep stuff for times rather than any heavy or low rep work. Ive competed about 5x now. How I train is that I do 2x weights session a week covering the compounds (squats, deads, OHP, Bench, chinups rows). The other days I do intervals on the rower or crosstrainer doing like 6min rounds with 30 secs normal pace, 30 secs flat out. Have a 30-45second rest and repeat for 4-6 rounds. Barbell complexes aswell so like cosgrove evil 8 & FMDH (front squat/ military press/ deadlift/ hangclean).
Heavy bag rounds were/ are usually 3 min rounds, working on combinations of hands/ hands and legs/ hands and knees/ hands, knees, and legs etc. Do crossfit circuits aswell, the ones I enjoy the most are Cindy and Arnie.
Yet the science seems to suggest that very heavy low rep work aiming to move a weight as fast as it can be for 1 to 3 reps (even though it won't look or feel fast given the % of 1rm) hits the fibres and builds the systems that will help explosive action.
Then to balance that out over a training camp/ period with a shift over to speed development/speed-strength (lighter weights - usually recommended as being up to around 60% of 1rm as fast as possible and with more plyo work - med ball throws, hand clap push ups, box jumps, interval sprints etc.) and strength endurance in the later stages.
didelydoo said:
What a totally off topic post last night...not in any way related to S&C for MMA. Still, it seems relatively sensible.
On topic- when I boxed and later did MT, I found that and heavy strength related stuff was detrimental to my other training. Lighter circuits and lots of bag works seemed to fill 90% of the time that was not spent sparring. Infact, my increase in strength related stuff was the reason that I stopped MT as I felt that I could only put 100% effort into one or the other.
That's interesting, given your love of heavy training. So, if you were coming back to a fight - say had an 8 week training camp booked for a 3 x 3 min competition - would you drop the heavy, low rep stuff or still do some either early in the camp or a day or two per week?On topic- when I boxed and later did MT, I found that and heavy strength related stuff was detrimental to my other training. Lighter circuits and lots of bag works seemed to fill 90% of the time that was not spent sparring. Infact, my increase in strength related stuff was the reason that I stopped MT as I felt that I could only put 100% effort into one or the other.
Do you think you could punch and kick harder (even if not keep up the endurance so well over the time of the bout) when at the higher levels of your strength range and doing the lower rep routines or when you trained lighter with more circuits bag work etc.?
Just started reading the latest 'Fighting Fit' magazine and spotted two interesting articles relating to this thread. One is a weight circuit Brendan Ingle has got the journalist doing with Junior Witter and Kid Gallagher - seems a bit random in its mix of exercises and rep schemes but apparently they'd do lower rep, heavier squat and deadlift sessions in the off season - and the other is about Chad Dawson who always looks in great condition.
They reckon he does no weights at all (but must have before as he reckons to be another one of those lucky buggers who says "if I lift weights my body blows up really quickly"!) but lots of plyo work and that he wears a whole body 50lb muscular skeletal suit and hits the pads, bags and does foot work wearing it to build his strength, endurance and speed. Never heard of that before.
They reckon he does no weights at all (but must have before as he reckons to be another one of those lucky buggers who says "if I lift weights my body blows up really quickly"!) but lots of plyo work and that he wears a whole body 50lb muscular skeletal suit and hits the pads, bags and does foot work wearing it to build his strength, endurance and speed. Never heard of that before.
Found a couple of interesting clips of training at the University of Teeside including this with some interesting core stuff and a brilliant looking cable machine near the end, plus OH squats, dumbbell snatches etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bom_sRl2us&fea...
and several categories of S&C work from the trainer's micro-site
http://www.youtube.com/user/MDWright17
and another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWZyVcb4ICo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bom_sRl2us&fea...
and several categories of S&C work from the trainer's micro-site
http://www.youtube.com/user/MDWright17
and another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWZyVcb4ICo
Edited by Lost_BMW on Saturday 18th August 23:40
Halb said:
And this, good moves and like the way he explains it and DOESN'T COVER IT ALL UP WITH w
k HPSTER GUN RAP METAL SHYTE!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFbMQ0WGXo&fea...
Christ on a stick do they all think they rapper wker gangsters when they stick that st on.
I know who you're thinking of!k HPSTER GUN RAP METAL SHYTE!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFbMQ0WGXo&fea...
Christ on a stick do they all think they rapper w
ker gangsters when they stick that st on.The guy behind some of the clips, Russ Meadows - http://www.rmfitness.co.uk/ - seems to know hisstuff.
Some of the people he's training like Michael Grundy (GB wrestler, now in MMA and winner of the annual 'Fighting Fit' fitness/strength test competition), Paul Sass and others including the Wigan rugby team suggest he's earned his kudos. In fact one v. promising sign is that one of the PTs started as a client! See the page on Nicola Smith in the 'Meet the staff' section.
Not too far from you Halb, isn't it?
Some of the people he's training like Michael Grundy (GB wrestler, now in MMA and winner of the annual 'Fighting Fit' fitness/strength test competition), Paul Sass and others including the Wigan rugby team suggest he's earned his kudos. In fact one v. promising sign is that one of the PTs started as a client! See the page on Nicola Smith in the 'Meet the staff' section.
Not too far from you Halb, isn't it?
Edited by Lost_BMW on Sunday 19th August 12:07
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