That Little Genius…
Discussion
unident said:
ChocolateFrog said:
1.35bn Euros in debt, no wonder they let him go.
Realistically, there’s no way out of that hole. I’m sure they’ll find a way somehow, but debts like that with the outgoings they’ve got would kill most businesses. 
selym said:
unident said:
ChocolateFrog said:
1.35bn Euros in debt, no wonder they let him go.
Realistically, there’s no way out of that hole. I’m sure they’ll find a way somehow, but debts like that with the outgoings they’ve got would kill most businesses. selym said:
unident said:
ChocolateFrog said:
1.35bn Euros in debt, no wonder they let him go.
Realistically, there’s no way out of that hole. I’m sure they’ll find a way somehow, but debts like that with the outgoings they’ve got would kill most businesses. Barca' debt is made up of loans to buy players, loans for salaries and loans to pay off loans. Their salaries exceed their income so how are they repaying debt? Borrowing more money to pay off urgent creditors, like a Ponzi scheme.
It's like one person having a £300k mortgage and another having £300k of credit card, store card and pay day loans.
TEKNOPUG said:
Barca' debt is made up of loans to buy players, loans for salaries and loans to pay off loans. Their salaries exceed their income so how are they repaying debt? Borrowing more money to pay off urgent creditors, like a Ponzi scheme.
Or think the Euro Superleague was the next free money tree......And both Madrid teams are in the same mess, just not as big in terms of ultimate numbers.
You can't blame La Liga for trying to smack them round the face with some fiscal reality rules.....
TEKNOPUG said:
The amount that of debt is largely irrelevant. It's the payment terms and interest that's the issue. Spurs' £1bn is over 30 years. It's also a loan against an asset. The repayments are easily manageable and would have been factored against the profit returns from the loan investment.
Barca' debt is made up of loans to buy players, loans for salaries and loans to pay off loans. Their salaries exceed their income so how are they repaying debt? Borrowing more money to pay off urgent creditors, like a Ponzi scheme.
It's like one person having a £300k mortgage and another having £300k of credit card, store card and pay day loans.
'Consolidation' of loans could make a risky debt more easily payable over a longer amount of time. That could move whichever team up that league table but down the 'in danger' list. However, and in the same vein, the Glazers could lump massive debts onto Man Utd with unmanageable terms that could put them into the same strife as Barcelona. This is the tipping point I'm asking about.Barca' debt is made up of loans to buy players, loans for salaries and loans to pay off loans. Their salaries exceed their income so how are they repaying debt? Borrowing more money to pay off urgent creditors, like a Ponzi scheme.
It's like one person having a £300k mortgage and another having £300k of credit card, store card and pay day loans.
Cliffe60 said:
Everton and Liverpool both have plans for new stadia and will be near the top of that table when they’ve paid for them. Probably sacrilege to most of the fans, but surely a shared ground would be a really sensible option.
I said the same to my mate who is a massive liverpool fan. He did agree it would make sense to have a joint stadium but would never happen. selym said:
'Consolidation' of loans could make a risky debt more easily payable over a longer amount of time. That could move whichever team up that league table but down the 'in danger' list. However, and in the same vein, the Glazers could lump massive debts onto Man Utd with unmanageable terms that could put them into the same strife as Barcelona. This is the tipping point I'm asking about.
The tipping point is when you can’t pay your outgoings from your incomings. Or more accurately that’s the point at which it all comes crashing down. The danger signs are when you start to build debt without it being justified by subsequent income. Not all sent is bad. Apple borrowed £8bn a few months back despite having an obscene amount of cash available to them. Barca have spent money on status symbols and depreciating assets. Spurs have built a new stadium (Covid aside) that produces far more income than is needed to service the debt from building it. That debt is also probably at sensible commercial interest rates too.
Look at some of the clubs who’ve been relegated recently who have destroyed themselves financially trying to stay in the PL and not factored relegation into their thinking. Loads have nearly gone bust (any other business would have been shut down) and might never recover as a result. OK they’re not mega clubs like Barca but they are an example of what can happen when you overreach.
unident said:
selym said:
'Consolidation' of loans could make a risky debt more easily payable over a longer amount of time. That could move whichever team up that league table but down the 'in danger' list. However, and in the same vein, the Glazers could lump massive debts onto Man Utd with unmanageable terms that could put them into the same strife as Barcelona. This is the tipping point I'm asking about.
The tipping point is when you can’t pay your outgoings from your incomings. Or more accurately that’s the point at which it all comes crashing down. The danger signs are when you start to build debt without it being justified by subsequent income. Not all sent is bad. Apple borrowed £8bn a few months back despite having an obscene amount of cash available to them. Barca have spent money on status symbols and depreciating assets. Spurs have built a new stadium (Covid aside) that produces far more income than is needed to service the debt from building it. That debt is also probably at sensible commercial interest rates too.
Look at some of the clubs who’ve been relegated recently who have destroyed themselves financially trying to stay in the PL and not factored relegation into their thinking. Loads have nearly gone bust (any other business would have been shut down) and might never recover as a result. OK they’re not mega clubs like Barca but they are an example of what can happen when you overreach.
TEKNOPUG said:
It depends who they owe the money to. Spanish banks will never foreclose on the clubs, that would be commercial suicide. Whilst there is no chance of them going into administration, the new reality is that they will no longer be competitive in the transfer market unless they can find new income streams.
True enough. Effectively they’ll just fade away much like other clubs have done over the years. Italian clubs seem to no longer be the talk of the town when it comes to picking up the best talent and there are some French clubs who were once powerhouses in Europe who don’t get mentioned anymore such as Marseille and Monaco. The lack of match day income due to Covid really has acted as a catalyst to push these Spanish clubs to the brink. Their hope of creating new income streams from the Super League was dashed because they had to rush the rollout without gauging the interest or desire from fans properly.
unident said:
TEKNOPUG said:
It depends who they owe the money to. Spanish banks will never foreclose on the clubs, that would be commercial suicide. Whilst there is no chance of them going into administration, the new reality is that they will no longer be competitive in the transfer market unless they can find new income streams.
True enough. Effectively they’ll just fade away much like other clubs have done over the years. Italian clubs seem to no longer be the talk of the town when it comes to picking up the best talent and there are some French clubs who were once powerhouses in Europe who don’t get mentioned anymore such as Marseille and Monaco. The lack of match day income due to Covid really has acted as a catalyst to push these Spanish clubs to the brink. Their hope of creating new income streams from the Super League was dashed because they had to rush the rollout without gauging the interest or desire from fans properly.
TEKNOPUG said:
They still have huge revenues but there salaries are insane. Barca need to put everyone up for sale including free transfers and subsidized loans. Start again with a sensible wage to income ratio. It might mean a few years in the wilderness but they won't get relegated. The problem they have is their ownership structure doesn't allow for massive outside investment. So the only way to compete with the Petro-dollar clubs is to borrow.
Hasn't stopped Bayen and they are a not too dissimilar ownership structure.......just much better run!Which is the real issue with Barca (and not being able to contemplate a life after Messi for far too long)
mikebradford said:
For me he didn't deliver tonight.
This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Ultimate LOL, another biased United fanboy who can't stand the little genius being just that; a genius. He doesn't have to proof anything, for the very simple reason he already did many, many years.This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Messi is an all time great, he is the best ever.
Just learn to live with it, breath in and breath out. You'll be fine.
DeltonaS said:
mikebradford said:
For me he didn't deliver tonight.
This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Ultimate LOL, another biased United fanboy who can't stand the little genius being just that; a genius. He doesn't have to proof anything, for the very simple reason he already did many, many years.This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Messi is an all time great, he is the best ever.
Just learn to live with it, breath in and breath out. You'll be fine.
Being from Bradford the team I follow is Bradford City regardless of their lower standing.
mikebradford said:
For me he didn't deliver tonight.
This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Only as good as your last game is it ?? I like it. This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
DeltonaS said:
mikebradford said:
For me he didn't deliver tonight.
This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Ultimate LOL, another biased United fanboy who can't stand the little genius being just that; a genius. He doesn't have to proof anything, for the very simple reason he already did many, many years.This seasons going to determine if he stays regarded as an all time great.
If he struggles to be effective unfortunately for many they will see the Barcelona team being built around him as the reason he was so effective.
Messi is an all time great, he is the best ever.
Just learn to live with it, breath in and breath out. You'll be fine.
You accuse someone of being a Utd fanboy yet one could easily say you're a Messi fanboy based upon that little outburst.
I wouldn't make a judgement on Messi after 1 CL game with another club. I'm sure he'll come good.
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