Financial Fair Play
Discussion
Challo said:
I think its more to do with protecting the clubs for the long term. its all well and good have rich owners, but what happens if that rich owner runs out of money, or decides its no longer viable and stops picking up the cheques?
The clubs have contracts they need to keep and adhere too and once the owner pulls funding how do they pay the bills?
Its not perfect, and to a certain extent its protecting the big clubs but i think it tries to ensure the clubs have organic growth rather than the owner throwing aload of money at the club and then walking away.
If that happened...the club would go into administration....points deduction and relegationThe clubs have contracts they need to keep and adhere too and once the owner pulls funding how do they pay the bills?
Its not perfect, and to a certain extent its protecting the big clubs but i think it tries to ensure the clubs have organic growth rather than the owner throwing aload of money at the club and then walking away.
To prevent this, some bright spark had thought...let's give Everton two lots of points deductions in the same season, relegate them and then they will go into administration.
We should have built our stadium before FFP. That, or be gifted one
FFP has being going for 10 years now. Seems like everyone used to sail through it, but because of inflation a couple of clubs have been caught out, and an alleged 80% have little leeway, including the side who finished 2nd last year. But my main point regarding the length of time it's been operated is, surely they should have figured a way out of doing it without having to do it mid April, and hear the appeals one week after the season ends??? Ie - run the accounts to the 31st of May, announce any breaches in June and relevant punishments, with the Appeal heard before the first game of the season. With any points deductions applying from the start of the new season.
The PL seem to be trying to say "look - we are a competent bunch, we don't need an independent regulator". They are coming across as utter clowns. The fact the rules are being amended in August is just the icing on the cake
Disgruntled Everton fan...fill yer boots
I'll throw in "double jeopardy" on two of the three years in question, plus reiterate that our alleged overspend is due to interest payments on the new stadium. So, if that's not allowed, there's every chance of being done again next season if we somehow survive. And if we go down, we are finished. Well played PL, well played...
NB There should be something in place to stop mega rich owners buying the league title every year, I agree - how's FFP going in that regard?
Edited by johnboy1975 on Tuesday 16th January 11:47
johnboy1975 said:
If that happened...the club would go into administration....points deduction and relegation
To prevent this, some bright spark had thought...let's give Everton two lots of points deductions in the same season, relegate them and then they will go into administration.
We should have built our stadium before FFP. That, or be gifted one
FFP has being going for 10 years now. Seems like everyone used to sail through it, but because of inflation a couple of clubs have been caught out, and an alleged 80% have little leeway, including the side who finished 2nd last year. But my main point regarding the length of time it's been operated is, surely they should have figured a way out of doing it without having to do it mid April, and hear the appeals one week after the season ends??? Ie - run the accounts to the 31st of May, announce any breaches in June and relevant punishments, with the Appeal heard before the first game of the season.
The PL seem to be trying to say "look - we are a competent bunch, we don't need an independent regulator". They are coming across as utter clowns. The fact the rules are being amended in August is just the icing on the cake
Disgruntled Everton fan...fill yer boots
I'll throw in "double jeopardy" on two of the three years in question, plus reiterate that our alleged overspend is due to interest payments on the new stadium. So, if that's not allowed, there's every chance of being done again next season if we somehow survive. And if we go down, we are finished. Well played PL, well played...
NB There should be something in place to stop mega rich owners buying the league title every year, I agree - how's FFP going in that regard?
They should have worked out timings. But they’ve never had to. Equally Everton should have kept within the rules after a decade of them existing. To prevent this, some bright spark had thought...let's give Everton two lots of points deductions in the same season, relegate them and then they will go into administration.
We should have built our stadium before FFP. That, or be gifted one
FFP has being going for 10 years now. Seems like everyone used to sail through it, but because of inflation a couple of clubs have been caught out, and an alleged 80% have little leeway, including the side who finished 2nd last year. But my main point regarding the length of time it's been operated is, surely they should have figured a way out of doing it without having to do it mid April, and hear the appeals one week after the season ends??? Ie - run the accounts to the 31st of May, announce any breaches in June and relevant punishments, with the Appeal heard before the first game of the season.
The PL seem to be trying to say "look - we are a competent bunch, we don't need an independent regulator". They are coming across as utter clowns. The fact the rules are being amended in August is just the icing on the cake
Disgruntled Everton fan...fill yer boots
I'll throw in "double jeopardy" on two of the three years in question, plus reiterate that our alleged overspend is due to interest payments on the new stadium. So, if that's not allowed, there's every chance of being done again next season if we somehow survive. And if we go down, we are finished. Well played PL, well played...
NB There should be something in place to stop mega rich owners buying the league title every year, I agree - how's FFP going in that regard?
Let’s not forget you were bought by a mega rich owner, you just pissed it all up the wall.
ETA: it’s hard to have sympathy for any PL club as a supporter of an EFL team. You all have it easy with money, falling foul of the rules is incompetent. Look at Reading for real issues.
Edited by Dingu on Tuesday 16th January 11:52
Dingu said:
They should have worked out timings. But they’ve never had to. Equally Everton should have kept within the rules after a decade of them existing.
Let’s not forget you were bought by a mega rich owner, you just pissed it all up the wall.
180m net spend since Moshiri I believe? (2016, so 8 years). That's not atrocious IMO. Wages are definitely a factor though...Let’s not forget you were bought by a mega rich owner, you just pissed it all up the wall.
Yes we've brought crap and are (I'd like to say "were" but...) a shambles in the boardroom. Isn't being a bottom half club / perennially fighting for 17th place punishment enough? (That's how football used to work, buy good players, move up the league, buy crap, move down it)
However, we arecompliant - barring stadium costs. AFAIK
Re the timings, they have had to (last year). People moaned our first lot of points should have gone on last year. (Perhaps with some justification). Their response has been "let's do it in April or May of the same season".
This relates to the period ending June 2023 I believe, which had to be submitted by 31st December. Why not 1st of July, or 31st July??
Dingu said:
. Look at Reading for real issues.
Every sympathy for Reading. Quite how the owners passed the fit and proper persons test after liquidating two football clubs is beyond me Edited by johnboy1975 on Tuesday 16th January 12:02
johnboy1975 said:
Challo said:
I think its more to do with protecting the clubs for the long term. its all well and good have rich owners, but what happens if that rich owner runs out of money, or decides its no longer viable and stops picking up the cheques?
The clubs have contracts they need to keep and adhere too and once the owner pulls funding how do they pay the bills?
Its not perfect, and to a certain extent its protecting the big clubs but i think it tries to ensure the clubs have organic growth rather than the owner throwing aload of money at the club and then walking away.
If that happened...the club would go into administration....points deduction and relegationThe clubs have contracts they need to keep and adhere too and once the owner pulls funding how do they pay the bills?
Its not perfect, and to a certain extent its protecting the big clubs but i think it tries to ensure the clubs have organic growth rather than the owner throwing aload of money at the club and then walking away.
To prevent this, some bright spark had thought...let's give Everton two lots of points deductions in the same season, relegate them and then they will go into administration.
We should have built our stadium before FFP. That, or be gifted one
FFP has being going for 10 years now. Seems like everyone used to sail through it, but because of inflation a couple of clubs have been caught out, and an alleged 80% have little leeway, including the side who finished 2nd last year. But my main point regarding the length of time it's been operated is, surely they should have figured a way out of doing it without having to do it mid April, and hear the appeals one week after the season ends??? Ie - run the accounts to the 31st of May, announce any breaches in June and relevant punishments, with the Appeal heard before the first game of the season. With any points deductions applying from the start of the new season.
The PL seem to be trying to say "look - we are a competent bunch, we don't need an independent regulator". They are coming across as utter clowns. The fact the rules are being amended in August is just the icing on the cake
Disgruntled Everton fan...fill yer boots
I'll throw in "double jeopardy" on two of the three years in question, plus reiterate that our alleged overspend is due to interest payments on the new stadium. So, if that's not allowed, there's every chance of being done again next season if we somehow survive. And if we go down, we are finished. Well played PL, well played...
NB There should be something in place to stop mega rich owners buying the league title every year, I agree - how's FFP going in that regard?
Edited by johnboy1975 on Tuesday 16th January 11:47
t as it means your impacted. City is the catalyst for the FFP rules, and changes by the Premier League. I agree for them, your trying to close the gate once the horse has bolted but it needs to come into effect.
johnboy1975 said:
If that happened...the club would go into administration....points deduction and relegation
To prevent this, some bright spark had thought...let's give Everton two lots of points deductions in the same season, relegate them and then they will go into administration.
We should have built our stadium before FFP. That, or be gifted one
FFP has being going for 10 years now. Seems like everyone used to sail through it, but because of inflation a couple of clubs have been caught out, and an alleged 80% have little leeway, including the side who finished 2nd last year. But my main point regarding the length of time it's been operated is, surely they should have figured a way out of doing it without having to do it mid April, and hear the appeals one week after the season ends??? Ie - run the accounts to the 31st of May, announce any breaches in June and relevant punishments, with the Appeal heard before the first game of the season. With any points deductions applying from the start of the new season.
The PL seem to be trying to say "look - we are a competent bunch, we don't need an independent regulator". They are coming across as utter clowns. The fact the rules are being amended in August is just the icing on the cake
Disgruntled Everton fan...fill yer boots
I'll throw in "double jeopardy" on two of the three years in question, plus reiterate that our alleged overspend is due to interest payments on the new stadium. So, if that's not allowed, there's every chance of being done again next season if we somehow survive. And if we go down, we are finished. Well played PL, well played...
NB There should be something in place to stop mega rich owners buying the league title every year, I agree - how's FFP going in that regard?
As i understand it Everton were given allowances for stadium costs as well as covid costs and yet still breached the rules (and admitted it). Assuming that's correct then its quite right they should be punished. To prevent this, some bright spark had thought...let's give Everton two lots of points deductions in the same season, relegate them and then they will go into administration.
We should have built our stadium before FFP. That, or be gifted one
FFP has being going for 10 years now. Seems like everyone used to sail through it, but because of inflation a couple of clubs have been caught out, and an alleged 80% have little leeway, including the side who finished 2nd last year. But my main point regarding the length of time it's been operated is, surely they should have figured a way out of doing it without having to do it mid April, and hear the appeals one week after the season ends??? Ie - run the accounts to the 31st of May, announce any breaches in June and relevant punishments, with the Appeal heard before the first game of the season. With any points deductions applying from the start of the new season.
The PL seem to be trying to say "look - we are a competent bunch, we don't need an independent regulator". They are coming across as utter clowns. The fact the rules are being amended in August is just the icing on the cake
Disgruntled Everton fan...fill yer boots
I'll throw in "double jeopardy" on two of the three years in question, plus reiterate that our alleged overspend is due to interest payments on the new stadium. So, if that's not allowed, there's every chance of being done again next season if we somehow survive. And if we go down, we are finished. Well played PL, well played...
NB There should be something in place to stop mega rich owners buying the league title every year, I agree - how's FFP going in that regard?
Edited by johnboy1975 on Tuesday 16th January 11:47
I just hope the PL then go and take on those that have been cheating for decades Chelsea and city. Newcastle's latest sponsorship deal dodgy as hell as well. why should these clubs have different rules from the rest of us?
Everton fans have bleated on for years regarding the mismanagement of their club.
They then get a points deduction (and now another charge) as a result of that same mismanagement and suddenly their fans attention turns to the PL bullying them and being corrupt.
It's odd how they keep refeering back to the City case too. They have far more charges, which are more complicated, intertwined. and they make every effort to make it difficult. When they do eventually have action taken (lets face it, every other set of fans isn't going to let it be forgotten), they'll get a 3000 points deduction and everyone will rightly refer to everything they've won as being bullst.
How all of the clubs who have missed out on titles, qualifications and trophies react is going to be interesting to see, similar to the rule changes brought in as a result of clubs' actions after Everton were charged first time round.
They then get a points deduction (and now another charge) as a result of that same mismanagement and suddenly their fans attention turns to the PL bullying them and being corrupt.
It's odd how they keep refeering back to the City case too. They have far more charges, which are more complicated, intertwined. and they make every effort to make it difficult. When they do eventually have action taken (lets face it, every other set of fans isn't going to let it be forgotten), they'll get a 3000 points deduction and everyone will rightly refer to everything they've won as being bulls
t. How all of the clubs who have missed out on titles, qualifications and trophies react is going to be interesting to see, similar to the rule changes brought in as a result of clubs' actions after Everton were charged first time round.
Ascayman said:
As i understand it Everton were given allowances for stadium costs as well as covid costs and yet still breached the rules (and admitted it). Assuming that's correct then its quite right they should be punished.
I just hope the PL then go and take on those that have been cheating for decades Chelsea and city. Newcastle's latest sponsorship deal dodgy as hell as well. why should these clubs have different rules from the rest of us?
I was listening to a podcast on this yesterday and they indicated the sponsorship deals are more scrutinized. PIF are always going to sponsor Newcastle, but they have to show the deal is true market value, and not the over inflated fake deals City got. I just hope the PL then go and take on those that have been cheating for decades Chelsea and city. Newcastle's latest sponsorship deal dodgy as hell as well. why should these clubs have different rules from the rest of us?
They must have passed this to get the deal over the line, but these type of deals are investigated.
Challo said:
Ascayman said:
As i understand it Everton were given allowances for stadium costs as well as covid costs and yet still breached the rules (and admitted it). Assuming that's correct then its quite right they should be punished.
I just hope the PL then go and take on those that have been cheating for decades Chelsea and city. Newcastle's latest sponsorship deal dodgy as hell as well. why should these clubs have different rules from the rest of us?
I was listening to a podcast on this yesterday and they indicated the sponsorship deals are more scrutinized. PIF are always going to sponsor Newcastle, but they have to show the deal is true market value, and not the over inflated fake deals City got. I just hope the PL then go and take on those that have been cheating for decades Chelsea and city. Newcastle's latest sponsorship deal dodgy as hell as well. why should these clubs have different rules from the rest of us?
They must have passed this to get the deal over the line, but these type of deals are investigated.
That the PL ratified it is moot really given they also ratified rapists and murderers passing the fit and proper persons test.
Terry Winks said:
But look at Chelsea and United right now, spending fortunes on players that are not turning out to be good choices.
Chelsea broke the rules inadvertently under the old regime, it was spotted by the new regime who self reported it to the PL. We're awaiting the outcome of that. Hoping that as we weren't caught but reported the breach ourselves, the penalty may be lighter. Re the current crop of overpriced wasters we've bought, as yet we have broken no FFP rules, but as we've spread the cost over 7/8 years, we're in a £65m hole at the start of the coming seasons before we even start. And with no CL income, we're going to have to sell players bought before the current crop, or who came thru the academy, to meet FFP. So the likes of Gallagher and James.
We cannot sell Caicedo, Mudryk or Enzo because then we'll have to take the loss in one hit. And in Caicedo's case, bought for £115m, that'll be a £90m hit, because he's a £25m footballer.
The 'allowable losses' idea of FFP will really start to kill the ability of clubs to move up the pyramid, if it hasn't already.
At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
GMT13 said:
The 'allowable losses' idea of FFP will really start to kill the ability of clubs to move up the pyramid, if it hasn't already.
At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
Ipswich are in 2nd place at the moment in the Championship. At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
GMT13 said:
The 'allowable losses' idea of FFP will really start to kill the ability of clubs to move up the pyramid, if it hasn't already.
At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
Ipswich are in 2nd place at the moment in the Championship. At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
GMT13 said:
The 'allowable losses' idea of FFP will really start to kill the ability of clubs to move up the pyramid, if it hasn't already.
At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
Ipswich are in 2nd place at the moment in the Championship. At Championship level you can spend whatever your revenue is + £39m per year (in simple terms). But even a smaller prem team that comes down will have a revenue £100m greater than the rest of the division because of TV revenue. So you end up with a team like Leicester having a squad full of players that are individually worth more than another teams whole squad.
They therefore can hardly fail to get promoted and it will more and more be the teams that come down who go straight back up every season. May as well make the prem a closed shop.
Twitter:
"The head of the Premier League, Richard Masters, describing Everton & Nottingham Forest as “small clubs” today says a lot"
https://twitter.com/ImJamieMartin/status/174724291...
Small clubs? WTAF? Even if so (relative to Man Utd's revenues) why mention it, or describe them as such?
"The head of the Premier League, Richard Masters, describing Everton & Nottingham Forest as “small clubs” today says a lot"
https://twitter.com/ImJamieMartin/status/174724291...
Small clubs? WTAF? Even if so (relative to Man Utd's revenues) why mention it, or describe them as such?
johnboy1975 said:
Twitter:
"The head of the Premier League, Richard Masters, describing Everton & Nottingham Forest as “small clubs” today says a lot"
https://twitter.com/ImJamieMartin/status/174724291...
Small clubs? WTAF? Even if so (relative to Man Utd's revenues) why mention it, or describe them as such?
Because every argument made with regards to Everton and Forest being charged or FFP in general, including by yourself, is along the lines of "Well the big clubs get away with it!!" ? "The head of the Premier League, Richard Masters, describing Everton & Nottingham Forest as “small clubs” today says a lot"
https://twitter.com/ImJamieMartin/status/174724291...
Small clubs? WTAF? Even if so (relative to Man Utd's revenues) why mention it, or describe them as such?
If fans are going to create two groups, he's bound to refer to them as such.
I'm a fan of an even smaller club than small-club-Everton too for what it's worth
there are a growing number of articles calling into question how FFP became what it has. the first iteration was well intended and designed to stop another leeds situation where club execs gamble the financial future of a club on certain levels of success. absolutely wise in essence.
however, once it was tinkered with, it was a thinly veiled attempt at keeping the status quo at the top of the premier league.
however, once it was tinkered with, it was a thinly veiled attempt at keeping the status quo at the top of the premier league.
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