Discussion
McClure said:
irocfan said:
if he's innocent why should he show remorse? Read the post by Speedracer and say that there aren't huge consistencies (with all respect to SR always assuming his facts are correct)
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong. Speedracer329 said:
As a supporter of Sheffield United I would like to air my views.
Firstly, rape is despicable, a terrible crime, & innocent or guilty it shows a dramatic lack of common sense to be in a scenario where such claims could be made. If indeed he is guilty of rape, & not a "victim" of the situation, then I would not want him to represent my club.
However, there are some inconsistencies that I think do shed doubt on the fact the lady was indeed raped.
She agreed that she asked Evans to perform oral sex on her, was a willing partner in this & when this act progressed to vaginal intercourse.
Although the lady claimed memory loss, & indeed was heard to say she had suffered these lapses before, one expert witness stated that although she was clearly drunk, the amount of drink thought to have been taken was not normally enough to cause memory loss. Perhaps she claimed this memory loss to cover her sexual proclivities, who knows?
One thing I would like to say about footballers in general, & I say "in general" because there are of course many footballers who are clearly outside this generalisation. Most young lads dream of becoming famous & rich, & being a footballer in these times is a fast track to both if you are good enough. Those who have the skills are usually found at an early age, & from that point the rest of their education goes downhill & suffers as a result of them pursuing those dreams. Again, a lot, but not all of these boys are from ordinary working class council house families. I have plenty of first hand knowledge to state that the average footballer is not the sharpest tool in the box, so to speak. So no excuse for them getting themselves in dodgy situations, but not totally surprising that they do.
I understand a lot of people are vilifying Evans for not showing contrition, but if I had been banged up for something I believed I was innocent of I wouldn't be either.
Then there is the view of my football club. Evans was signed for £3,ooo,ooo, & on quite high wages for a League One club, so they had thrown a lot of money at him, & perhaps they feel he "owes them" because they were a certainty for promotion before he was convicted, but the team capitulated in the last few games & their promotion spot went to Sheffield Wednesday in the end.
But after all that, now that Jessica Ennis-Hill has said she wants her name removing from one of the stands at the ground, I believe the club will have no choice but to stay away from Evans.
Lastly, the outrage of the public is purely down to Evans being a footballer, & not a bin man. Footballers are not, & have never been, role models.
Exactly, although if you'd arrived from Mars and watched Question Time last night you'd have concluded that all footballers are role models - I began shouting BINGO after the tenth mention.Firstly, rape is despicable, a terrible crime, & innocent or guilty it shows a dramatic lack of common sense to be in a scenario where such claims could be made. If indeed he is guilty of rape, & not a "victim" of the situation, then I would not want him to represent my club.
However, there are some inconsistencies that I think do shed doubt on the fact the lady was indeed raped.
She agreed that she asked Evans to perform oral sex on her, was a willing partner in this & when this act progressed to vaginal intercourse.
Although the lady claimed memory loss, & indeed was heard to say she had suffered these lapses before, one expert witness stated that although she was clearly drunk, the amount of drink thought to have been taken was not normally enough to cause memory loss. Perhaps she claimed this memory loss to cover her sexual proclivities, who knows?
One thing I would like to say about footballers in general, & I say "in general" because there are of course many footballers who are clearly outside this generalisation. Most young lads dream of becoming famous & rich, & being a footballer in these times is a fast track to both if you are good enough. Those who have the skills are usually found at an early age, & from that point the rest of their education goes downhill & suffers as a result of them pursuing those dreams. Again, a lot, but not all of these boys are from ordinary working class council house families. I have plenty of first hand knowledge to state that the average footballer is not the sharpest tool in the box, so to speak. So no excuse for them getting themselves in dodgy situations, but not totally surprising that they do.
I understand a lot of people are vilifying Evans for not showing contrition, but if I had been banged up for something I believed I was innocent of I wouldn't be either.
Then there is the view of my football club. Evans was signed for £3,ooo,ooo, & on quite high wages for a League One club, so they had thrown a lot of money at him, & perhaps they feel he "owes them" because they were a certainty for promotion before he was convicted, but the team capitulated in the last few games & their promotion spot went to Sheffield Wednesday in the end.
But after all that, now that Jessica Ennis-Hill has said she wants her name removing from one of the stands at the ground, I believe the club will have no choice but to stay away from Evans.
Lastly, the outrage of the public is purely down to Evans being a footballer, & not a bin man. Footballers are not, & have never been, role models.
When I was a kid my Dad played Sunday League in one of the rougher parts of Birmingham. Having watched him one game from the sidelines as a 4yo I came home and, with a degree of delight and complete innocence told my mum to "F*** off!". I'd heard it several times from the sidelines of the game that day, it was a new expression to me, I repeated what I had heard parrot fashion. After my mum had gone ballistic at him, he sat me down and explained that most footballers were good with their feet but not with their brains. "Admire them for what they do on the pitch, but not elsewhere" was very much the message. I took it on board, a lesson in life. We had very much the same conversation when he started taking me to watch professional football, although I didn't need telling to be honest, it is clear who is a dick and who isn't.
I make this point because it is insulting to the intelligence of kids to assume that they will hold up Ched Evans as (sigh) a role model. Surely those parents should be saying "look, he's a man who did a very bad thing, treated a lady very badly, but he went to prison and lost his freedom for it. Don't be like that, eh? Good lad. Now, knuckle down with those keepy-uppys, because your Dad would very much like to retire early when you sign for Real Madrid".
I am aghast that parents will get out of their pram over this 'role model' issue, yet happily take their kids to football where they will be witness to rampant racism, sexism and homophobia, week in, week out, from the very fans that they sit amongst. My kid is due next year, and I know that one day in the future I will have to explain to him (at Villa) why "Karren Brady is a f
king slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag!" ("she isn't Son, she seems to be quite a nice woman, but she happened to once be involved with our local rivals and married one of their players, so everyone sings that. Got it? Cool"). Yet still people worry about the players setting a bad example 
McClure said:
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong.
Quite, the woman in question has had to move and change her identity twice because she's been harassed ever since, despite not even testifying, she is the real victim here whatever way you cut it. You can show remorse for that without 'admitting' to the rape aspect.
McClure said:
irocfan said:
if he's innocent why should he show remorse? Read the post by Speedracer and say that there aren't huge consistencies (with all respect to SR always assuming his facts are correct)
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong. ascayman said:
McClure said:
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong.
Quite, the woman in question has had to move and change her identity twice because she's been harassed ever since, despite not even testifying, she is the real victim here whatever way you cut it. You can show remorse for that without 'admitting' to the rape aspect.
If you genuinely believed you'd done nothing wrong, why would you feel the need to show remorse for anything?
PurpleTurtle said:
I am aghast that parents will get out of their pram over this 'role model' issue, yet happily take their kids to football where they will be witness to rampant racism, sexism and homophobia, week in, week out, from the very fans that they sit amongst. My kid is due next year, and I know that one day in the future I will have to explain to him (at Villa) why "Karren Brady is a fking slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag!" ("she isn't Son, she seems to be quite a nice woman, but she happened to once be involved with our local rivals and married one of their players, so everyone sings that. Got it? Cool"). Yet still people worry about the players setting a bad example
king slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag!" ("she isn't Son, she seems to be quite a nice woman, but she happened to once be involved with our local rivals and married one of their players, so everyone sings that. Got it? Cool"). Yet still people worry about the players setting a bad example 
Football Fans said:
WHO THE fk ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!! WHO THE fk ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[quote]
Me as a young lad watching Arsenal for the first time : Dad, why do those fans not know who arsenal are playing? It says on the the score board.
All the talk of footballers as role models is so pathetic, many lads wish they could be a footballer but out of all those kids who try only a tiny percentage actually get anywhere near a position where they can earn a living from it.
k ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!! WHO THE fk ARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![quote]
Me as a young lad watching Arsenal for the first time : Dad, why do those fans not know who arsenal are playing? It says on the the score board.
All the talk of footballers as role models is so pathetic, many lads wish they could be a footballer but out of all those kids who try only a tiny percentage actually get anywhere near a position where they can earn a living from it.
McClure said:
irocfan said:
if he's innocent why should he show remorse? Read the post by Speedracer and say that there aren't huge consistencies (with all respect to SR always assuming his facts are correct)
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong. But no, not a bit of it. He's an idiot. Or he's being advised by idiots.
Antony Moxey said:
ut if he believes himself to be completely innocent, why should he show remorse for that? As far as he's concerned he's done nothing wrong so her being harassed and having to move isn't his fault.
Because whether it was consensual or rape as a result of that night she can no longer go 'home' and has had to change her identity...... twice. Its not as if she pursued this case or even testified against him. Her life will certainly never be the same again. I don't think its to much to ask him to show a bit of remorse for his role in that.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
McClure said:
irocfan said:
if he's innocent why should he show remorse? Read the post by Speedracer and say that there aren't huge consistencies (with all respect to SR always assuming his facts are correct)
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong. But no, not a bit of it. He's an idiot. Or he's being advised by idiots.
Antony Moxey said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
McClure said:
irocfan said:
if he's innocent why should he show remorse? Read the post by Speedracer and say that there aren't huge consistencies (with all respect to SR always assuming his facts are correct)
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong. But no, not a bit of it. He's an idiot. Or he's being advised by idiots.
But you're right, he doesn't realise he's caused any pain, and that's because he's a complete idiot. And a scumbag. On top of being a rapist.
ascayman said:
Antony Moxey said:
ut if he believes himself to be completely innocent, why should he show remorse for that? As far as he's concerned he's done nothing wrong so her being harassed and having to move isn't his fault.
Because whether it was consensual or rape as a result of that night she can no longer go 'home' and has had to change her identity...... twice. Its not as if she pursued this case or even testified against him. Her life will certainly never be the same again. I don't think its to much to ask him to show a bit of remorse for his role in that.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Antony Moxey said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
McClure said:
irocfan said:
if he's innocent why should he show remorse? Read the post by Speedracer and say that there aren't huge consistencies (with all respect to SR always assuming his facts are correct)
He could easily show remorse. For a start he could acknowledge the pain the girl feels over what happened, even if he feels he did nothing wrong. But no, not a bit of it. He's an idiot. Or he's being advised by idiots.
But you're right, he doesn't realise he's caused any pain, and that's because he's a complete idiot. And a scumbag. On top of being a rapist.
BrabusMog said:
ascayman said:
Antony Moxey said:
ut if he believes himself to be completely innocent, why should he show remorse for that? As far as he's concerned he's done nothing wrong so her being harassed and having to move isn't his fault.
Because whether it was consensual or rape as a result of that night she can no longer go 'home' and has had to change her identity...... twice. Its not as if she pursued this case or even testified against him. Her life will certainly never be the same again. I don't think its to much to ask him to show a bit of remorse for his role in that.
As for what happened it was far from a 'normal threesome' she went back with one fella and consented to sex and then at some point during or after Evans let himself into the room (after blagging a key card) and did his thing, whilst two other mates videoed it from outside the window.
Dan_1981 said:
Grandfondo said:
Grandfondo said:
To the people who think he should not be allowed to continue with his profession, what job do you think would be suitable for a rapist?
?
Speedracer329 said:
However, there are some inconsistencies that I think do shed doubt on the fact the lady was indeed raped.
She agreed that she asked Evans to perform oral sex on her, was a willing partner in this & when this act progressed to vaginal intercourse.
Although the lady claimed memory loss, & indeed was heard to say she had suffered these lapses before, one expert witness stated that although she was clearly drunk, the amount of drink thought to have been taken was not normally enough to cause memory loss. Perhaps she claimed this memory loss to cover her sexual proclivities, who knows?
I don't agree with your assertion.She agreed that she asked Evans to perform oral sex on her, was a willing partner in this & when this act progressed to vaginal intercourse.
Although the lady claimed memory loss, & indeed was heard to say she had suffered these lapses before, one expert witness stated that although she was clearly drunk, the amount of drink thought to have been taken was not normally enough to cause memory loss. Perhaps she claimed this memory loss to cover her sexual proclivities, who knows?
It is only Evans who claimed she consented. She maintained, throughout the trial, that she had no memory of any events in the room (and it was that fact the jury used to decide in her favour that she probably was in no state to consent). Indeed, your second paragraph contradicts your first to that degree.
Anyway - As far as should he be allowed to play for Sheffield Utd then rape is an abhorent crime and I don't think the club should re-employ him . After all, if he'd been convicted of , let's say, racially aggravated assault I very much doubt he'd be allowed to continue as a footballer with the same club.
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff