The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)
Discussion
simon800 said:
CLK-GTR said:
Jackson isn't an accurate comparison because Chelsea are in much better form and are creating signifcantly more chances than us. Our problem is creating chances, their problem is finishing them. Hojlund has a much better conversion rate than Jackson.
Martial who is an oft derided laughing stock on here has a goal or assist every 138 mins under Ten Hag....Hojlund has a goal or assist every 190 mins.
I agree service into Hojlund should be improved. However I also don't think he's completely blameless. He often makes the wrong run, and his first touch is often poor.
I'm curious to see what tactical improvements Ten Hag comes up with to get our wonderkid and our mega money attacking signings he's made creating more opportunities for Hojlund.
For Hojlund a young striker with his first season in the prem, is a dysfunctional team a return of 14 goals in all comps is good. No doubt there is plenty for him to work on, but from what I have seen this season I am impressed.
The biggest I see is the lack of quality from our wide players, and Bruno. They dont seem to be putting good balls for him to attack, its more often they are looking to shot themselves or Rasmus makes a run and the ball is delayed and by the time it does come in he is on his heels. Things will get better, but it looks like this season will be a massive learning curve for him.
The big thing with Hojlund is promise. I’m happy to give him a pass on this season, despite him costing a fortune as the team has been woeful as a whole. The fee we paid is a concern though as we paid for the finished article not potential.
Antony is a completely different case before I get accused of double standards. He was very poor last year in a half decent team and has been even worse this year.
Antony is a completely different case before I get accused of double standards. He was very poor last year in a half decent team and has been even worse this year.
simon800 said:
My eyes tell me that he often makes the wrong run.
Other people's eyes tell them something else. That's fine by me. There are people in this thread who are convinced Casemiro was a great signing, Wan Bissaka is top 6 level right back and Onana is a good goalkeeper.
It's hard to make a wrong run as a striker. As long as you're moving around the pitch as you should its on the midfielders to pass according to your movement, not you to predict where they might play it. Hojlund runs the channels and gets in between the centre back and fullback. The midfield should be finding him there.Other people's eyes tell them something else. That's fine by me. There are people in this thread who are convinced Casemiro was a great signing, Wan Bissaka is top 6 level right back and Onana is a good goalkeeper.
Challo said:
For Hojlund a young striker with his first season in the prem, is a dysfunctional team a return of 14 goals in all comps is good. No doubt there is plenty for him to work on, but from what I have seen this season I am impressed.
The biggest I see is the lack of quality from our wide players, and Bruno. They dont seem to be putting good balls for him to attack, its more often they are looking to shot themselves or Rasmus makes a run and the ball is delayed and by the time it does come in he is on his heels. Things will get better, but it looks like this season will be a massive learning curve for him.
Yep, I've acknowledged this and really don't think I've said anything outlandish on Hojlund. I think he needs to improve, and it seems others agree on the whole. I also said I am not in any way writing him off, I've not slated him or anything. On his heels is a good way of putting it you've come up with. The biggest I see is the lack of quality from our wide players, and Bruno. They dont seem to be putting good balls for him to attack, its more often they are looking to shot themselves or Rasmus makes a run and the ball is delayed and by the time it does come in he is on his heels. Things will get better, but it looks like this season will be a massive learning curve for him.
The stats say he receives the same amount of progressive passes as Alexander Isak per 90 mins, and I am sure most will be in agreement on who represents the greater threat to opposition defences - hence I see vast scope for him to improve what he's doing (as well as us improving what is around him - agree that this should be improved).
As the post above outlines, part of the issue is we've paid finished article money for a guy who looks nowhere near the finished article. Obviously Hojlund doesn't set his price tag so that's not his fault, but it does mean some scrutiny will be applied to what we are getting in return.
Are you sure Bruno is a problem though!? As of end of April he had literally created more chances than any other player in any of Europe's top 5 leagues, and thereby created the most chances of any player in the Premier League. In terms of quality of those chances, he is number 2 in the league for "big chances created".
LF5335 said:
The big thing with Hojlund is promise. I’m happy to give him a pass on this season, despite him costing a fortune as the team has been woeful as a whole. The fee we paid is a concern though as we paid for the finished article not potential.
Antony is a completely different case before I get accused of double standards. He was very poor last year in a half decent team and has been even worse this year.
For the finished article to score goals in the prem you would be paying around the 80-90m in todays market. 64m is maybe a little high, but one of the top ranked young players in Europe and was wanted by a few other clubs. Antony is a completely different case before I get accused of double standards. He was very poor last year in a half decent team and has been even worse this year.
Challo said:
For the finished article to score goals in the prem you would be paying around the 80-90m in todays market. 64m is maybe a little high, but one of the top ranked young players in Europe and was wanted by a few other clubs.
I was going to say, he's barely 21 and playing his first season in the PL for a side that is struggling with chance creation. 14 goals so far this season, including 5 in 6 champions league games, is hardly a terrible return especially when compared to some of his more established team mates? LF5335 said:
The fee we paid is a concern though as we paid for the finished article not potential.
You paid £64m for him as there were other suitors. To expect a finished article at 20 years old is ridiculous.Edited by SWoll on Monday 13th May 16:16
Challo said:
LF5335 said:
The big thing with Hojlund is promise. I’m happy to give him a pass on this season, despite him costing a fortune as the team has been woeful as a whole. The fee we paid is a concern though as we paid for the finished article not potential.
Antony is a completely different case before I get accused of double standards. He was very poor last year in a half decent team and has been even worse this year.
For the finished article to score goals in the prem you would be paying around the 80-90m in todays market. 64m is maybe a little high, but one of the top ranked young players in Europe and was wanted by a few other clubs. Antony is a completely different case before I get accused of double standards. He was very poor last year in a half decent team and has been even worse this year.
SWoll said:
Challo said:
For the finished article to score goals in the prem you would be paying around the 80-90m in todays market. 64m is maybe a little high, but one of the top ranked young players in Europe and was wanted by a few other clubs.
I was going to say, he's barely 21 and playing his first season in the PL for a side that is struggling with chance creation. 14 goals so far this season, including 5 in 6 champions league games, is hardly a terrible return especially when compared to some of his more established team mates? LF5335 said:
The fee we paid is a concern though as we paid for the finished article not potential.
You paid £64m for him as there were other suitors. To expect a finished article at 20 years old is ridiculous.Edited by SWoll on Monday 13th May 16:16
It’s been obvious all season that he isn’t getting service, and that all comes back to the manager as well. Why he doesn’t get the left footed winger on the left and the right footed winger on the right and tell them to whip the ball in quick instead of cutting inside and allowing the defenders to get back.
J6542 said:
It’s been obvious all season that he isn’t getting service, and that all comes back to the manager as well. Why he doesn’t get the left footed winger on the left and the right footed winger on the right and tell them to whip the ball in quick instead of cutting inside and allowing the defenders to get back.
The vast majority of managers play with wingers who cut inside. Every top manager does it 
simon800 said:
Raphael Varane leaving is now confirmed.
Good news in my opinion - £300k+ a week for a guy who isn't fit 50% of the time just isn't viable.
A really great player in his prime, but he just can't be relied on and we didn't ever see the very best of him.
Yeah it's the right move. He's well on his way out and sadly can't be relied on with his ever growing injury record. Shame we didn't get him in his early years when he chose RM over us but glad he came and had a great partnership with Martinez.Good news in my opinion - £300k+ a week for a guy who isn't fit 50% of the time just isn't viable.
A really great player in his prime, but he just can't be relied on and we didn't ever see the very best of him.
With him and Martial out this summer that's already over 500k a week saved in wages...
simon800 said:
Palmer cost £45mn, Isak £58mn, Jackson cost £30mn, Julian Alvarez £14mn, Cunha £44mn.
They are varying degrees of "potential" rather than finished article.
Aside from Palmer they all play in teams with a far more coherent style of play than you though. They are varying degrees of "potential" rather than finished article.
I bet if you had Hojland in Wolves/city/Newcastle he would be scoring more as there is some predictability of when a ball will arrive.
Unfortunately Rasmus is not good enough for utd , we need someone who turns half chances into goals, someone who makes their own chances as well, look at all class strikers that have played in crap teams they tend to be unstopable or unplayable in some form or another, he just has'nt got anything like that he misses the chances he gets or falls over, another one of ten bobs failures for me stick him on the for sale list.
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