The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)
Discussion
simon800 said:
McKenna's camp have had talks with Brighton according to many reports. I'd see him as more available to us than Guardiola for example.
He wouldn't be my choice, and neither would Poch for various reasons.
That wasn't the point I was trying to make though, my point is it would be completely mental to go into year 1 of a 3 year project with a guy the owners are completely unsure of who is in the last year of his contract.
They need to either give him a new one, back him and show stability. Or replace him with their appointment. Doing that now with managers available is an easier task than doing it halfway through a failed season when the best options are off the market.
You're right. A decision has to be made before the season starts and seeing how INEOS have been so far I'm pretty sure we will know not long after the FA Cup, which ever way that goes.He wouldn't be my choice, and neither would Poch for various reasons.
That wasn't the point I was trying to make though, my point is it would be completely mental to go into year 1 of a 3 year project with a guy the owners are completely unsure of who is in the last year of his contract.
They need to either give him a new one, back him and show stability. Or replace him with their appointment. Doing that now with managers available is an easier task than doing it halfway through a failed season when the best options are off the market.
ChocolateFrog said:
Being a good player has to be one of the worst barometers for management ability.
Zidane at RM or Pep at spending multiple billions are not exactly representative either.
Being a winner is a barometer of character. People who haven't won at anything much in life hired into high pressure jobs where winning is a pre-requisite is a recipe for disaster. It's not about whether knowledge and skills as a footballer transfer to successful management, it's whether that person has experience of winning and the mindset to get themselves into winning situations. Be that in football or anywhere else. Zidane at RM or Pep at spending multiple billions are not exactly representative either.
Pochettino hasn't shown that winning mentality despite plenty of opportunity so for me is a no-no. What would he change in his approach compared to his past failures?
Forester1965 said:
Being a winner is a barometer of character. People who haven't won at anything much in life hired into high pressure jobs where winning is a pre-requisite is a recipe for disaster. It's not about whether knowledge and skills as a footballer transfer to successful management, it's whether that person has experience of winning and the mindset to get themselves into winning situations. Be that in football or anywhere else.
Pochettino hasn't shown that winning mentality despite plenty of opportunity so for me is a no-no. What would he change in his approach compared to his past failures?
So Wenger, Mourinho and even Ferguson are poor characters and unlikely to succeed at management? Pochettino hasn't shown that winning mentality despite plenty of opportunity so for me is a no-no. What would he change in his approach compared to his past failures?
LF5335 said:
So Wenger, Mourinho and even Ferguson are poor characters and unlikely to succeed at management?
By the time he came to United, Ferguson had won 4 leagues and 5 cups as a manager. Mourinho had won 8 leagues and more than 10 cups. Wenger had less salubrious a background but had been a top level league winner as manager and player in France before Arsenal took a punt on him.If you think I said a manager can't be successful without being a winning player you've misunderstood what I said. In the absence of evidence they're a good manager you look at what they did before and ask yourself, is this person a winning character? The ones you mention above are and were when they were hired. Pochettino isn't.
Forester1965 said:
By the time he came to United, Ferguson had won 4 leagues and 5 cups as a manager. Mourinho had won 8 leagues and more than 10 cups. Wenger had less salubrious a background but had been a top level league winner as manager and player in France before Arsenal took a punt on him.
If you think I said a manager can't be successful without being a winning player you've misunderstood what I said. In the absence of evidence they're a good manager you look at what they did before and ask yourself, is this person a winning character? The ones you mention above are and were when they were hired. Pochettino isn't.
We were specifically discussing playing careers. Here’s the initial comment to support it. If you think I said a manager can't be successful without being a winning player you've misunderstood what I said. In the absence of evidence they're a good manager you look at what they did before and ask yourself, is this person a winning character? The ones you mention above are and were when they were hired. Pochettino isn't.
As for him being a winner or not, that’s your call. ETH is clearly a winner then and should stay given his track record at Ajax.
LF5335 said:
Forester1965 said:
Pochettino hasn't achieved anything of note as a manager or player. He's the last person we need.
What has a playing career got to do with management? Poch was looking good atvSpurs, until Levy pulled the rug from under him by not backing him after the CL final. Tedious.
You wanted to go down the player tangent. I've explained what I meant. No need to enter a repetition contest.
ETH did have a winning record. His time at Utd hasn't worked.
If you're advocating for Pochettino, you're advocating for someone who hasn't worked yet at multiple top clubs (i.e. worse record than ETH). Bully for you.
You wanted to go down the player tangent. I've explained what I meant. No need to enter a repetition contest.
ETH did have a winning record. His time at Utd hasn't worked.
If you're advocating for Pochettino, you're advocating for someone who hasn't worked yet at multiple top clubs (i.e. worse record than ETH). Bully for you.
Forester1965 said:
Tedious.
You wanted to go down the player tangent. I've explained what I meant. No need to enter a repetition contest.
ETH did have a winning record. His time at Utd hasn't worked.
If you're advocating for Pochettino, you're advocating for someone who hasn't worked yet at multiple top clubs (i.e. worse record than ETH). Bully for you.
His lure is based on a couple of good seasons at Spurs where he didn't win anything.You wanted to go down the player tangent. I've explained what I meant. No need to enter a repetition contest.
ETH did have a winning record. His time at Utd hasn't worked.
If you're advocating for Pochettino, you're advocating for someone who hasn't worked yet at multiple top clubs (i.e. worse record than ETH). Bully for you.
Obviously Poch now becoming available does make things more interesting. You now have another 'big name' manager along with Tuchel who is out of a job in the summer and could be an option for United.
I suppose we dont know exactly what has happened behind the scenes with why Poch left, or Tuchel was let go by Bayern.
No doubt INEOS will be doing the research on both, incase they want to make a change from ETH after the cup final. It will come down to what INEOS want to do in the summer, and would either Poch or Tuchel be the right fit for United, and could they work with them?
I suppose alot will depend on how much change behind the scenes they need to do first, and no doubt the manager is important is there other more pressing issues they need to fix first.
I suppose we dont know exactly what has happened behind the scenes with why Poch left, or Tuchel was let go by Bayern.
No doubt INEOS will be doing the research on both, incase they want to make a change from ETH after the cup final. It will come down to what INEOS want to do in the summer, and would either Poch or Tuchel be the right fit for United, and could they work with them?
I suppose alot will depend on how much change behind the scenes they need to do first, and no doubt the manager is important is there other more pressing issues they need to fix first.
Forester1965 said:
Tedious.
You wanted to go down the player tangent. I've explained what I meant. No need to enter a repetition contest.
ETH did have a winning record. His time at Utd hasn't worked.
If you're advocating for Pochettino, you're advocating for someone who hasn't worked yet at multiple top clubs (i.e. worse record than ETH). Bully for you.
Great. So who’s your choice? I’ve said I like Amorim. I said that back in early March I think. However, Poch is a viable option for me. Certainly a lot more confidence in him than ETH being the right man. You wanted to go down the player tangent. I've explained what I meant. No need to enter a repetition contest.
ETH did have a winning record. His time at Utd hasn't worked.
If you're advocating for Pochettino, you're advocating for someone who hasn't worked yet at multiple top clubs (i.e. worse record than ETH). Bully for you.
GTO-3R said:
Interesting news about Ashworth not actually handing in a resignation letter therefore has been sacked and not able to be put on gardening leave. Could mean he's here sooner if the arbitration goes his/our way!
Didn't he leak the conversations with United? Potentially being tapped up?GTO-3R said:
Interesting news about Ashworth not actually handing in a resignation letter therefore has been sacked and not able to be put on gardening leave. Could mean he's here sooner if the arbitration goes his/our way!
I think the case is more Ashworth claiming he was sacked on the technicality that he apparently didn’t hand in a resignation letter. Newcastle are contesting his claim. One day something in relation to us will be simple. God knows when though.
Not going to get into the who should be the new manager convo until if and when it happens, but if Ineos are waiting on the result of the FA cup being a deciding factor then thats a bit of a red flag for me, sorry to say. We need to be more strategic than one off games impacting decisions. Hopefully they are being cautious.
Not going to get into the who should be the new manager convo until if and when it happens, but if Ineos are waiting on the result of the FA cup being a deciding factor then thats a bit of a red flag for me, sorry to say. We need to be more strategic than one off games impacting decisions. Hopefully they are being cautious.
bstb3 said:
One day something in relation to us will be simple. God knows when though.
Not going to get into the who should be the new manager convo until if and when it happens, but if Ineos are waiting on the result of the FA cup being a deciding factor then thats a bit of a red flag for me, sorry to say. We need to be more strategic than one off games impacting decisions. Hopefully they are being cautious.
I don't think the result of the FA Cup is going to make any difference whether he stays or goes. It's more a case of not sacking him before it as that would be a daft thing to do and INEOS have probably already made up their minds. I still hope he stays personally.Not going to get into the who should be the new manager convo until if and when it happens, but if Ineos are waiting on the result of the FA cup being a deciding factor then thats a bit of a red flag for me, sorry to say. We need to be more strategic than one off games impacting decisions. Hopefully they are being cautious.
Yes, I think sacking ETH before the weekend would be causing unnecessary disruption which would probably rule out any slim chances we have. There’s also the query as to just how loyal Maclaren is to ETH and whether he’d be willing to stay just to sit on the bench at Wembley or not.
On top of that, if Ineos are looking for a replacement, it’s better for wage / compensation negotiations if the new guy / his current club don’t have have the leverage of knowing we’re managerless.
On top of that, if Ineos are looking for a replacement, it’s better for wage / compensation negotiations if the new guy / his current club don’t have have the leverage of knowing we’re managerless.
Supersam83 said:
So what are the odds that Manchester United do an LVG and sack ETH after the cup final this weekend?
I can't see INEOS wanting him around in the future with what they are building behind the scenes.
We sacked LVG after he won it. Even the most diehard fan on here isn”t expecting us to win this weekend. I can't see INEOS wanting him around in the future with what they are building behind the scenes.
For what it's worth the bookies have Kompany at 4/5 for next Bayern Manager and Poch now clear favourite at 11/8 for United next manager (with Tuchel 2nd favourite at 5/2 and thankfully Southgate out to 9/2).
I don't bet whatsoever but interesting to see what the market is making of it.
I don't bet whatsoever but interesting to see what the market is making of it.
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