The Best Tyre Pumps... in the World?
Discussion
Hi just a couple of comments on the posts above
1) The red WAD pump. Cant quite tell from this angle - If it has a brass bolt in the middle of the cylinder back plate (at the back) it is a genuine two stage version. This bolt has to be undone to start the dismantling process. Its different inside to the Duplex Master or Dunlop Giant - so its one of three different two stage principles that were invented. My book contains details. If the pump does not have a bolt at the back it is an 'enhanced' single stage design. This means that the large hollow piston rod acts as a high pressure reservoir downstream of the non return valve (which is located in the piston head). This reservoir delivers air to the tyre both during the downstroke and the upstroke. So more efficient than a normal single stage pump. The original patent for this design was taken out by Turner (Kismet)in the 1920's and was used by many others - WAD, Dunlop, Bedford etc.
2) Wood Milne washers. Wood Milne and British Goodrich pistons are a very tight fit in their barrels - leaving only a small annulus for the washer to fit in. So its best to use a thinnish, flexible leather to make washers and then ease in carefully with a rotational motion to avoid distortion. Normally 1 -1.5mm leather is OK. I've found difficulties with 2mm leather as it expands a bit during the wet forming process. Anyway - its a bit of trial and error. The other problem if one does get the washer in and its a very tight fit - is that a partial vacuum can form in front of the piston, thus slowing down (or in some cases stopping) the upstroke. This is a particular problem if the return spring is old and weak. This partial vacuum problem is possible on other pump too - I've had it on Kismet Juniors for instance - whose springs were on the weak side anyway. So the bottom line is that making washers is part science and part art! Some trial and error usually gets it right though!
3) Just out of interest, and for a possible second edition of my book, I'm compiling a list of cloned 'lookalike' pumps. In other words, pumps that are identical to another makers pump - made to exactly the same design but with different branding (e.g. name on the foot pedal)
So far I've seen clones as follows
Kismet Duplex Master - Stuart Turner ( military issue)
Kismet garage Mk II - Dunlop Giant
PCL Emperor MkI - Romac
PCL Emperor MkII - Dunlop (no model name)
WAD enhanced single stage - Romac
Kismet Lorry - Bedford
Kismet Trolley Compressor - Dunlop Trolley compressor
I bet there are many more. Would anyone here have other examples? What I'm not sure of is whether these are made legally ( under licence etc. ) or just copied willy nilly. Certainly the Stuart Turner may well have been done in WW2 when patent protection was relaxed in furtherance of the war effort. Also, I know from an ex marketing director of PCL that they made several different pumps for Dunlop near the end of Dunlops pumps business - identical to PCL pumps but Dunlop just put their name on them.
happy Xmas etc!
Gordon
1) The red WAD pump. Cant quite tell from this angle - If it has a brass bolt in the middle of the cylinder back plate (at the back) it is a genuine two stage version. This bolt has to be undone to start the dismantling process. Its different inside to the Duplex Master or Dunlop Giant - so its one of three different two stage principles that were invented. My book contains details. If the pump does not have a bolt at the back it is an 'enhanced' single stage design. This means that the large hollow piston rod acts as a high pressure reservoir downstream of the non return valve (which is located in the piston head). This reservoir delivers air to the tyre both during the downstroke and the upstroke. So more efficient than a normal single stage pump. The original patent for this design was taken out by Turner (Kismet)in the 1920's and was used by many others - WAD, Dunlop, Bedford etc.
2) Wood Milne washers. Wood Milne and British Goodrich pistons are a very tight fit in their barrels - leaving only a small annulus for the washer to fit in. So its best to use a thinnish, flexible leather to make washers and then ease in carefully with a rotational motion to avoid distortion. Normally 1 -1.5mm leather is OK. I've found difficulties with 2mm leather as it expands a bit during the wet forming process. Anyway - its a bit of trial and error. The other problem if one does get the washer in and its a very tight fit - is that a partial vacuum can form in front of the piston, thus slowing down (or in some cases stopping) the upstroke. This is a particular problem if the return spring is old and weak. This partial vacuum problem is possible on other pump too - I've had it on Kismet Juniors for instance - whose springs were on the weak side anyway. So the bottom line is that making washers is part science and part art! Some trial and error usually gets it right though!
3) Just out of interest, and for a possible second edition of my book, I'm compiling a list of cloned 'lookalike' pumps. In other words, pumps that are identical to another makers pump - made to exactly the same design but with different branding (e.g. name on the foot pedal)
So far I've seen clones as follows
Kismet Duplex Master - Stuart Turner ( military issue)
Kismet garage Mk II - Dunlop Giant
PCL Emperor MkI - Romac
PCL Emperor MkII - Dunlop (no model name)
WAD enhanced single stage - Romac
Kismet Lorry - Bedford
Kismet Trolley Compressor - Dunlop Trolley compressor
I bet there are many more. Would anyone here have other examples? What I'm not sure of is whether these are made legally ( under licence etc. ) or just copied willy nilly. Certainly the Stuart Turner may well have been done in WW2 when patent protection was relaxed in furtherance of the war effort. Also, I know from an ex marketing director of PCL that they made several different pumps for Dunlop near the end of Dunlops pumps business - identical to PCL pumps but Dunlop just put their name on them.
happy Xmas etc!
Gordon
GordonEDWARDS said:
Hi just a couple of comments on the posts above
1) The red WAD pump. Cant quite tell from this angle - If it has a brass bolt in the middle of the cylinder back plate (at the back) it is a genuine two stage version. This bolt has to be undone to start the dismantling process. Its different inside to the Duplex Master or Dunlop Giant - so its one of three different two stage principles that were invented. My book contains details. If the pump does not have a bolt at the back it is an 'enhanced' single stage design. This means that the large hollow piston rod acts as a high pressure reservoir downstream of the non return valve (which is located in the piston head). This reservoir delivers air to the tyre both during the downstroke and the upstroke. So more efficient than a normal single stage pump. The original patent for this design was taken out by Turner (Kismet)in the 1920's and was used by many others - WAD, Dunlop, Bedford etc.
2) Wood Milne washers. Wood Milne and British Goodrich pistons are a very tight fit in their barrels - leaving only a small annulus for the washer to fit in. So its best to use a thinnish, flexible leather to make washers and then ease in carefully with a rotational motion to avoid distortion. Normally 1 -1.5mm leather is OK. I've found difficulties with 2mm leather as it expands a bit during the wet forming process. Anyway - its a bit of trial and error. The other problem if one does get the washer in and its a very tight fit - is that a partial vacuum can form in front of the piston, thus slowing down (or in some cases stopping) the upstroke. This is a particular problem if the return spring is old and weak. This partial vacuum problem is possible on other pump too - I've had it on Kismet Juniors for instance - whose springs were on the weak side anyway. So the bottom line is that making washers is part science and part art! Some trial and error usually gets it right though!
3) Just out of interest, and for a possible second edition of my book, I'm compiling a list of cloned 'lookalike' pumps. In other words, pumps that are identical to another makers pump - made to exactly the same design but with different branding (e.g. name on the foot pedal)
So far I've seen clones as follows
Kismet Duplex Master - Stuart Turner ( military issue)
Kismet garage Mk II - Dunlop Giant
PCL Emperor MkI - Romac
PCL Emperor MkII - Dunlop (no model name)
WAD enhanced single stage - Romac
Kismet Lorry - Bedford
Kismet Trolley Compressor - Dunlop Trolley compressor
I bet there are many more. Would anyone here have other examples? What I'm not sure of is whether these are made legally ( under licence etc. ) or just copied willy nilly. Certainly the Stuart Turner may well have been done in WW2 when patent protection was relaxed in furtherance of the war effort. Also, I know from an ex marketing director of PCL that they made several different pumps for Dunlop near the end of Dunlops pumps business - identical to PCL pumps but Dunlop just put their name on them.
happy Xmas etc!
Gordon
Good write up Gordon.1) The red WAD pump. Cant quite tell from this angle - If it has a brass bolt in the middle of the cylinder back plate (at the back) it is a genuine two stage version. This bolt has to be undone to start the dismantling process. Its different inside to the Duplex Master or Dunlop Giant - so its one of three different two stage principles that were invented. My book contains details. If the pump does not have a bolt at the back it is an 'enhanced' single stage design. This means that the large hollow piston rod acts as a high pressure reservoir downstream of the non return valve (which is located in the piston head). This reservoir delivers air to the tyre both during the downstroke and the upstroke. So more efficient than a normal single stage pump. The original patent for this design was taken out by Turner (Kismet)in the 1920's and was used by many others - WAD, Dunlop, Bedford etc.
2) Wood Milne washers. Wood Milne and British Goodrich pistons are a very tight fit in their barrels - leaving only a small annulus for the washer to fit in. So its best to use a thinnish, flexible leather to make washers and then ease in carefully with a rotational motion to avoid distortion. Normally 1 -1.5mm leather is OK. I've found difficulties with 2mm leather as it expands a bit during the wet forming process. Anyway - its a bit of trial and error. The other problem if one does get the washer in and its a very tight fit - is that a partial vacuum can form in front of the piston, thus slowing down (or in some cases stopping) the upstroke. This is a particular problem if the return spring is old and weak. This partial vacuum problem is possible on other pump too - I've had it on Kismet Juniors for instance - whose springs were on the weak side anyway. So the bottom line is that making washers is part science and part art! Some trial and error usually gets it right though!
3) Just out of interest, and for a possible second edition of my book, I'm compiling a list of cloned 'lookalike' pumps. In other words, pumps that are identical to another makers pump - made to exactly the same design but with different branding (e.g. name on the foot pedal)
So far I've seen clones as follows
Kismet Duplex Master - Stuart Turner ( military issue)
Kismet garage Mk II - Dunlop Giant
PCL Emperor MkI - Romac
PCL Emperor MkII - Dunlop (no model name)
WAD enhanced single stage - Romac
Kismet Lorry - Bedford
Kismet Trolley Compressor - Dunlop Trolley compressor
I bet there are many more. Would anyone here have other examples? What I'm not sure of is whether these are made legally ( under licence etc. ) or just copied willy nilly. Certainly the Stuart Turner may well have been done in WW2 when patent protection was relaxed in furtherance of the war effort. Also, I know from an ex marketing director of PCL that they made several different pumps for Dunlop near the end of Dunlops pumps business - identical to PCL pumps but Dunlop just put their name on them.
happy Xmas etc!
Gordon
I've started a new thread on my pump restoration with before and after pics.
Here's the link...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
GordonEDWARDS said:
I bet there are many more. Would anyone here have other examples? What I'm not sure of is whether these are made legally ( under licence etc. ) or just copied willy nilly. Certainly the Stuart Turner may well have been done in WW2 when patent protection was relaxed in furtherance of the war effort. Also, I know from an ex marketing director of PCL that they made several different pumps for Dunlop near the end of Dunlops pumps business - identical to PCL pumps but Dunlop just put their name on them.
That fancy stirrup pump Hattersley and Davidson made, i have a dunlop one thats identical and Nesthill had something that looks the same too (never actually found one). I have had bad luck restoring these, both the ones I have have broken parts. Another one to add too: PCL Elf - Kismet Baby
I have just finished restoring a mystery pump. Anyone know it?
Mystery Pump by Rhyolith, on Flickr
Mystery Pump by Rhyolith, on FlickrHi, the mystery pump I think is a Hattersley and Davidson - which was probably originally connected to a 'desiccator' tower for drying air. But many were removed and just used as foot pump. I've seen several H&D Desiccator systems on ebay in the last year or so. I'm not sure what application would have needed dry compressed air? Gordon
Hi the Wood Milne of Leapingcat's will come up a treat I'm sure. If you have any problem with springs, I've just had a new set made by my springmaker exactly to original spec. Get in touch (enquiries@vintagepumps.co.uk) if you need one
Just a comment on the non return valve in these pumps - its just behind the air outlet and a small screwed insert in the outlet annulus needs to be unscrewed to get it out - its the usual spring and ball bearing type. But sometimes these small inserts dont have a screwdriver slot and they are a devil to get out. Sometimes one cant!
But after getting it out, I've had problems on a couple of Wood Milnes recently where the NRV seating has been badly worn and pitted over the years and the thing won't seal! I've tried gentle drilling and different sized ball bearings but to no avail. I hope yours seals OK - if you can get the screwed cap out a good clean and maybe replacing the ball bearing if its pitted. If all else fails, the only solution is to use a hosetail with a NRV - or let a cylinder type NRV into the hose. These will get the pump working OK but the downside is that the pressure gauge will not read accurately because it will then be sampling pump cylinder pressure rather than tyre pressure.
Good luck anyway. A nice Wood Milne can be put on show anywhere!
Gordon
Just a comment on the non return valve in these pumps - its just behind the air outlet and a small screwed insert in the outlet annulus needs to be unscrewed to get it out - its the usual spring and ball bearing type. But sometimes these small inserts dont have a screwdriver slot and they are a devil to get out. Sometimes one cant!
But after getting it out, I've had problems on a couple of Wood Milnes recently where the NRV seating has been badly worn and pitted over the years and the thing won't seal! I've tried gentle drilling and different sized ball bearings but to no avail. I hope yours seals OK - if you can get the screwed cap out a good clean and maybe replacing the ball bearing if its pitted. If all else fails, the only solution is to use a hosetail with a NRV - or let a cylinder type NRV into the hose. These will get the pump working OK but the downside is that the pressure gauge will not read accurately because it will then be sampling pump cylinder pressure rather than tyre pressure.
Good luck anyway. A nice Wood Milne can be put on show anywhere!
Gordon
GordonEDWARDS said:
Hi, the mystery pump I think is a Hattersley and Davidson - which was probably originally connected to a 'desiccator' tower for drying air. But many were removed and just used as foot pump. I've seen several H&D Desiccator systems on ebay in the last year or so. I'm not sure what application would have needed dry compressed air? Gordon
Thanks. I have looked up pictures of these and am certain your right, explains a lot: like why the front bar is so long and the lack of base stability.I'd just like to say thanks to the various contributors on this thread. I've been working on a Kismet Master and although I'd worked out that it was probably the sealing of the secondary cylinder that was problematic (pumps air but only to modest pressures) I hadn't worked out the design of the top hat washer. The photos posted of the Master restoration by Rhyolith and Gordon's observations on replacing the top hat washer have been very helpful indeed.
9xxNick said:
I'd just like to say thanks to the various contributors on this thread. I've been working on a Kismet Master and although I'd worked out that it was probably the sealing of the secondary cylinder that was problematic (pumps air but only to modest pressures) I hadn't worked out the design of the top hat washer. The photos posted of the Master restoration by Rhyolith and Gordon's observations on replacing the top hat washer have been very helpful indeed.
Glad to be of help 
I don’t know how high modest pressure is to you, but a kismet master probably should be able to reach car tyre pressure on just one cylinder. So you may want to re-examine all your washers.
I tend to get check the inner cylinder is compressing on its own first. You can do this just by pumping the inner cylinder with your hands (basically the cylinder fully assembled bar the outer casing), it should blow air on its own no problem.
Something else to check that will stop anything working properly is the non-return valve.
It all needs a further check over. You can hear the pump leaking internally if you hold the pedal down at the bottom of its stroke, so something's clearly leaking. The non-return valve appears to be in good shape but I will take another look at that. I'll probably end up making another new set of washers to satisfy myself that they're working properly.
I also need to source the washer-type round piece that sits on top of the spring adjacent to the cross rod. It was missing from mine on purchase, although I didn't realise at the time.
Based on Gordon's comments re the Deluxe version, I think this is one of the Deluxe versions made in Birmingham, since it's Birmingham rather than Bedford on the name plate and it has two grease nipples on the pivot. It doesn't have a date on the cylinder end though, just a four digit number (7266? I'll have to check).
I also need to source the washer-type round piece that sits on top of the spring adjacent to the cross rod. It was missing from mine on purchase, although I didn't realise at the time.
Based on Gordon's comments re the Deluxe version, I think this is one of the Deluxe versions made in Birmingham, since it's Birmingham rather than Bedford on the name plate and it has two grease nipples on the pivot. It doesn't have a date on the cylinder end though, just a four digit number (7266? I'll have to check).
Here are a few photos of the bits that might help to identify the version. The end of the pump has "S 1677" stamped on it. However under the footplate, there are a series of very small casting numbers which look like "1932". I would be interested in knowing if that ties in with production dates or relates to something else.
Grease nipples on pivot
Pressure test and release valve on pump body
Home-made washer
The other pivot with a broken grease nipple in it.
Grease nipples on pivot
Pressure test and release valve on pump body
Home-made washer
The other pivot with a broken grease nipple in it.
I have never seen one with lubrication nipples before! It looks like its the type Gordon describes here in all but one regard, yours in made in eyre works not bedford. Least thats what it looks like from the name plate.
GordonEDWARDS said:
PS - If you are looking for Kismet Duplex Masters - I would avoid their very late models which were produced in Bedford ( c 1950-55) just before the company folded. These are often the 'deluxe' versions with pressure test valve and grease nipples and Bedford in on the nameplate. But they were going through quality problems at that point and I've had several of these late Duplex Masters where the piston rod has split along its length - presumably fatigue in use. Can be soldered up but a tricky process
The home made washer which 9xxNick shows a picture of might well be a contributing factor to the pump not performing. The creases may mean that it doesn't seal properly? Also, it looks quite dry. A good coating of sunflower oil ( also on the inside of the barrel) might help? Use of mineral oil is not recommended on leather washers.
The non return valve in the HP piston head in the Duplex Master can be tested by taking the pump apart just leaving the back plate, thin piston rod and HP piston, piston washer with NRV. Hooking the air outlet up to a tyre with a hose and dunking the piston head in water will reveal bubbles if its leaking.
In my experience, a Duplex Master can tolerate a fair bit of leakage in the non return valve - as long as the ball bearing blocks of the majority of back flow during pumping. As long as the main washers are OK, by far the most common problem limiting performance is the non sealing top hat washer in the gland box - through which the thin piston rod passes. Re packing with small circular packing washers in very thin leather and oiling well will do the trick. They have to be packed in very tightly and oiled well (sunflower oil) so there is a reasonable resistance and no 'wobble' when the gland box is slid by hand along the piston rod.
Interesting that Kismet originally claimed that the Duplex Master can reach 300psi. I've never tested one to that level for health and safety reasons (mine!). I have papers from Air Ministry tests carried out during the war to see if the Master was capable of pumping up air starter tanks to around 200psi in flying boats ( in flight) . They concluded that it was possible but the operatives were knackered after finishing!! So I think they found another way.
The non return valve in the HP piston head in the Duplex Master can be tested by taking the pump apart just leaving the back plate, thin piston rod and HP piston, piston washer with NRV. Hooking the air outlet up to a tyre with a hose and dunking the piston head in water will reveal bubbles if its leaking.
In my experience, a Duplex Master can tolerate a fair bit of leakage in the non return valve - as long as the ball bearing blocks of the majority of back flow during pumping. As long as the main washers are OK, by far the most common problem limiting performance is the non sealing top hat washer in the gland box - through which the thin piston rod passes. Re packing with small circular packing washers in very thin leather and oiling well will do the trick. They have to be packed in very tightly and oiled well (sunflower oil) so there is a reasonable resistance and no 'wobble' when the gland box is slid by hand along the piston rod.
Interesting that Kismet originally claimed that the Duplex Master can reach 300psi. I've never tested one to that level for health and safety reasons (mine!). I have papers from Air Ministry tests carried out during the war to see if the Master was capable of pumping up air starter tanks to around 200psi in flying boats ( in flight) . They concluded that it was possible but the operatives were knackered after finishing!! So I think they found another way.
GordonEDWARDS said:
Interesting that Kismet originally claimed that the Duplex Master can reach 300psi. I've never tested one to that level for health and safety reasons (mine!). I have papers from Air Ministry tests carried out during the war to see if the Master was capable of pumping up air starter tanks to around 200psi in flying boats ( in flight) . They concluded that it was possible but the operatives were knackered after finishing!! So I think they found another way.
I would be interested to find out if they really could reach 300psi, maybe one day a controlled test is in order. Do you have a photo copy or something of those Air ministry documents? I’d being interested to see them.
GordonEDWARDS said:
I think I got them hardcopy from Ian Oliver who I believe has taken part in this forum in the past. Will see if Ian has electronic version he can make available to save me from photoing them. G
Thanks Have just finished another one:
Kismet Car by Rhyolith, on FlickrLess impressed by this one, its not as well designed as other kismets I have dealt with being not so easy to take apart considering the simplicity of it. Also the nut at the front is missing, not sure if I lost it or it never had one. Still it looks nice I think and has an era appropriate hose and connector still attached, might even be original?
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