Campervan Confusion: Cali vs Marco Polo vs Conversion
Discussion
Hello,
Newbie to PH as a poster. Would appreciate your thoughts on the VW California, Mercedes Marco Polo, and conversions, and other permutations of similar offerings, eg. the Westfalia Joker/Joker City and your experiences of sites, car parks, and how you use your camper van - it would really help us put our thoughts together as we decide which direction to take.
We're a couple, looking for a camper van to be both a main vehicle for one of us (not frequent driving, but when it happens it is a couple of hours), and our escape at weekends and holidays. We aim to use it a lot to get away, usually just the two of us but sometimes with others. We're new to this and also are not familiar with how things work on nice caravanning/motorhome sites, but we hear the facilities are great now. We aim to use these sites sometimes and park up in the middle of nowhere the rest of the time. At some point in the near future we will be joined by a dog!
We just don't know how much we'd use the stove, and whether using it would really fill the vehicle with smells and grease. We don't think we need a fixed loo. A shower is quite appealing but again, would we really use it? We think we want under 2 metres to get into every car park, but then we see the Joker and wonder if we should be constrained by this limit or not.
Where we are with our thinking is:
- VW California Ocean: inspected one, drove well, nice interior but not groundbreaking, felt like a nicely done van, surprised at how expensive it is, like the re-sale values (if we wanted to in 3 years), wonder if we need the 4motion to be able to go really anywhere in any conditions and have no weather stopping us
- Mercedes Marco Polo: inspected one, drove well but felt heavy and a bit sluggish, felt like a big luxurious car rather than a van, interior quality by Westfalia very high although specific styling was very bling (and maybe too lux for a dog), silly storage of chairs and table (not as smart as the VW) which wastes valuable under-bed storage at the back, not quite as expensive as the Ocean, but very concerned by plummeting re-sale values.
- Westfalia: have not inspected, don't know if they do bespoke conversions for individuals, haven't seen their Joker/Joker City and Kepler in person but website shows intriguing different layouts. Re-sale values?
- Other conversions (of VW Transporter probably): numerous names out there, not sure where to start. What are their re-sale values like?
All the above would be new/ex-demo or 1-2 years old max. Thanks.
[Edit: And awnings! Any advice? Do you set up a separate leave-behind, a separate tent or an awning]
Newbie to PH as a poster. Would appreciate your thoughts on the VW California, Mercedes Marco Polo, and conversions, and other permutations of similar offerings, eg. the Westfalia Joker/Joker City and your experiences of sites, car parks, and how you use your camper van - it would really help us put our thoughts together as we decide which direction to take.
We're a couple, looking for a camper van to be both a main vehicle for one of us (not frequent driving, but when it happens it is a couple of hours), and our escape at weekends and holidays. We aim to use it a lot to get away, usually just the two of us but sometimes with others. We're new to this and also are not familiar with how things work on nice caravanning/motorhome sites, but we hear the facilities are great now. We aim to use these sites sometimes and park up in the middle of nowhere the rest of the time. At some point in the near future we will be joined by a dog!
We just don't know how much we'd use the stove, and whether using it would really fill the vehicle with smells and grease. We don't think we need a fixed loo. A shower is quite appealing but again, would we really use it? We think we want under 2 metres to get into every car park, but then we see the Joker and wonder if we should be constrained by this limit or not.
Where we are with our thinking is:
- VW California Ocean: inspected one, drove well, nice interior but not groundbreaking, felt like a nicely done van, surprised at how expensive it is, like the re-sale values (if we wanted to in 3 years), wonder if we need the 4motion to be able to go really anywhere in any conditions and have no weather stopping us
- Mercedes Marco Polo: inspected one, drove well but felt heavy and a bit sluggish, felt like a big luxurious car rather than a van, interior quality by Westfalia very high although specific styling was very bling (and maybe too lux for a dog), silly storage of chairs and table (not as smart as the VW) which wastes valuable under-bed storage at the back, not quite as expensive as the Ocean, but very concerned by plummeting re-sale values.
- Westfalia: have not inspected, don't know if they do bespoke conversions for individuals, haven't seen their Joker/Joker City and Kepler in person but website shows intriguing different layouts. Re-sale values?
- Other conversions (of VW Transporter probably): numerous names out there, not sure where to start. What are their re-sale values like?
All the above would be new/ex-demo or 1-2 years old max. Thanks.
[Edit: And awnings! Any advice? Do you set up a separate leave-behind, a separate tent or an awning]
Edited by Meerkat1234 on Wednesday 24th January 18:06
Wow, thank you all - your posts have been fantastic. Sorry I couldn't reply before to thank you, I tried but pistonheads was blocking posts from new members because of some posting abuse issue.
I can't see all the posts as I write this so can't name posters individually, but really the insight you have offered is amazing. This has raised so many questions and will guide us as we think about what to do next.
We actually first went to a motorhome show last year and thought, yep, a motorhome is for us. We liked a Swift 685 (or something like that) - it was basic, not too big, ok value, a good intro this world. Thoughts then turned to having something that would get into every car park, park in any lay-by, and be useful as a day to day car too, be a mobile office too, so we checked out the Californias (not knowing anything about the Cali cult!).
Now - crumbs. So much to think about and work out. We just don't know if some things are important to us or not, renting one out is definitely a good idea. We also saw a Kepler One on the Harbour Creek site (by tracing Westfalia) and are intrigued by the layout. We'll be at Birmingham NEC in a few weeks time.
So we're sort of here:
- never thought we'd need a toilet, still feel that's a bit beyond our requirements, don't really fancy lugging that around with us all the time, but well-thought out layouts seem to have one so..?
- likewise really for the shower, just don't know how much we'd use it. We aim to be on nice sites but also in the middle of the woods and anywhere with a great view, park by the sea etc, so maybe that's a good thing to have?
- seem to be mixed views here on whether conversions lose their value or keep their value - will check out the magazines recommended and the forums
- great point about who fixes what with conversions and the drive to get them fixed, hadn't thought of that at all
- the Ocean seems just so jolly expensive for what it is - but then again the VW service etc may be worth it, still undecided. The trim is OK, but we'd like better seats (sitting in that Marco Polo has spoiled us I think), can we upgrade?
- we wonder about the Beach and using kitchen pods etc, maybe false economy when compared to a blank Transporter conversion
- we have heard lots about problems with California roof canopies and don't know whether that's a big enough thing to put us off, or not (shouldn't be happening at all - why don't they sort it out?)
- there is a tiny part of our minds that wonders if we'll go to the NEC in a few weeks and be bowled over by the size and relative affordability of motorhomes again and change our mind altogether. It's a very small part I hasten to add, and has all sorts of inconveniences, hassle and cost (ie still need to get another car then) associated with doing that, but just putting it out there, it's not totally off the table.
- we have been thinking we must get something under 2 metres for car parks; I'm surprised to hear it hasn't been that much of a hassle for some of you choosing the high top. I'm keen to understand this more - can you get into supermarket car parks on the continent and UK (underground and above ground), if you stop at NT properties in the UK is that OK, if you see a car park abroad and you want to go for a hike is that OK, etc?
Also, does anyone else buy one through their company, use it for both personal and work use (as I said, this would be a mobile office too) and claim back the VAT? We've heard mixed reports of doing this.
Thank you again for such insightful posts and we appreciate the time you've obviously taken to pass on your experiences and knowledge. It is really a great help.
I can't see all the posts as I write this so can't name posters individually, but really the insight you have offered is amazing. This has raised so many questions and will guide us as we think about what to do next.
We actually first went to a motorhome show last year and thought, yep, a motorhome is for us. We liked a Swift 685 (or something like that) - it was basic, not too big, ok value, a good intro this world. Thoughts then turned to having something that would get into every car park, park in any lay-by, and be useful as a day to day car too, be a mobile office too, so we checked out the Californias (not knowing anything about the Cali cult!).
Now - crumbs. So much to think about and work out. We just don't know if some things are important to us or not, renting one out is definitely a good idea. We also saw a Kepler One on the Harbour Creek site (by tracing Westfalia) and are intrigued by the layout. We'll be at Birmingham NEC in a few weeks time.
So we're sort of here:
- never thought we'd need a toilet, still feel that's a bit beyond our requirements, don't really fancy lugging that around with us all the time, but well-thought out layouts seem to have one so..?
- likewise really for the shower, just don't know how much we'd use it. We aim to be on nice sites but also in the middle of the woods and anywhere with a great view, park by the sea etc, so maybe that's a good thing to have?
- seem to be mixed views here on whether conversions lose their value or keep their value - will check out the magazines recommended and the forums
- great point about who fixes what with conversions and the drive to get them fixed, hadn't thought of that at all
- the Ocean seems just so jolly expensive for what it is - but then again the VW service etc may be worth it, still undecided. The trim is OK, but we'd like better seats (sitting in that Marco Polo has spoiled us I think), can we upgrade?
- we wonder about the Beach and using kitchen pods etc, maybe false economy when compared to a blank Transporter conversion
- we have heard lots about problems with California roof canopies and don't know whether that's a big enough thing to put us off, or not (shouldn't be happening at all - why don't they sort it out?)
- there is a tiny part of our minds that wonders if we'll go to the NEC in a few weeks and be bowled over by the size and relative affordability of motorhomes again and change our mind altogether. It's a very small part I hasten to add, and has all sorts of inconveniences, hassle and cost (ie still need to get another car then) associated with doing that, but just putting it out there, it's not totally off the table.
- we have been thinking we must get something under 2 metres for car parks; I'm surprised to hear it hasn't been that much of a hassle for some of you choosing the high top. I'm keen to understand this more - can you get into supermarket car parks on the continent and UK (underground and above ground), if you stop at NT properties in the UK is that OK, if you see a car park abroad and you want to go for a hike is that OK, etc?
Also, does anyone else buy one through their company, use it for both personal and work use (as I said, this would be a mobile office too) and claim back the VAT? We've heard mixed reports of doing this.
Thank you again for such insightful posts and we appreciate the time you've obviously taken to pass on your experiences and knowledge. It is really a great help.
Oh dear...
...now we're back to total confusion again after viewing different vehicles over the weekend and different configurations and are re-considering a motorhome (and even wondering about a 4x4 car/conversion + caravan). We see great positives in both, but the negatives are worrying us.
Concerns of a campervan:
- would just feel too small both for weekends away in the UK and week-ish long touring of Europe etc.
- not enough storage (once you've packed in the awning, stove etc)
- still the California seems a ridiculous price for what you get, whilst the conversions seem much better value they are restrictive in terms of finish/fabrics and what happens if it goes wrong?
- we thought the Cali/transporter would *always* get us in multi storey car parks and every supermarket and every car park at the bottom of a hill. Now we're hearing it won't in some. If the low height isn't a massive game changer that opens up a world that motorhomes are barred from, then why would we choose something so small unless it was just to have something we can holiday in and drive as a day car at the same time?
- can anyone recommend a conversion specialist that as well as being technically very good with great pre- and post-sale customer service, has a selection of very subtle and stylish finishes (ie. less of the high gloss/red piping). We've found some of the converters we have looked at restrictive in their design offering and it doesn't really suit our taste.
Concerns of a motorhome:
- too big for the tiny villages, small lanes everywhere we want to get to
- once we arrive at wherever we're going to stay for the night, how do we get into the village centre/town centre/car parks at the base of hills from where we want to hike etc?
- feels like a big lorry to drive
- big depreciation
- if we get this, we'll have to fork out for another car anyway as the campervan was going to serve 2 purposes
- For example, the Chausson 716 (2.35 x 7.49 x 2.92)
The new caravan idea:
- total much hassle to pull around?
- ever needed (in combo with some kind of vehicle you can sleep with) as opposed to a great awning?
...now we're back to total confusion again after viewing different vehicles over the weekend and different configurations and are re-considering a motorhome (and even wondering about a 4x4 car/conversion + caravan). We see great positives in both, but the negatives are worrying us.
Concerns of a campervan:
- would just feel too small both for weekends away in the UK and week-ish long touring of Europe etc.
- not enough storage (once you've packed in the awning, stove etc)
- still the California seems a ridiculous price for what you get, whilst the conversions seem much better value they are restrictive in terms of finish/fabrics and what happens if it goes wrong?
- we thought the Cali/transporter would *always* get us in multi storey car parks and every supermarket and every car park at the bottom of a hill. Now we're hearing it won't in some. If the low height isn't a massive game changer that opens up a world that motorhomes are barred from, then why would we choose something so small unless it was just to have something we can holiday in and drive as a day car at the same time?
- can anyone recommend a conversion specialist that as well as being technically very good with great pre- and post-sale customer service, has a selection of very subtle and stylish finishes (ie. less of the high gloss/red piping). We've found some of the converters we have looked at restrictive in their design offering and it doesn't really suit our taste.
Concerns of a motorhome:
- too big for the tiny villages, small lanes everywhere we want to get to
- once we arrive at wherever we're going to stay for the night, how do we get into the village centre/town centre/car parks at the base of hills from where we want to hike etc?
- feels like a big lorry to drive
- big depreciation
- if we get this, we'll have to fork out for another car anyway as the campervan was going to serve 2 purposes
- For example, the Chausson 716 (2.35 x 7.49 x 2.92)
The new caravan idea:
- total much hassle to pull around?
- ever needed (in combo with some kind of vehicle you can sleep with) as opposed to a great awning?
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