Books: A Song of Ice and Fire [SPOILERS]
Discussion
Plodding would be one word to describe AFFC & ADWD, a two thousand page book split into two that has about 500 pages that advances the main plot.
GRRM has caught 'Robert Jordan' disease. Multiplying POVs that seems to have less and less to do with the main storyline. Main characters simply marking time until something interesting can happen. Description becoming ever more important at the expense of plot and character development.
GRRM was initially planning to have a five year break after ASOS and you can see why. Because there is very little happening that advances the main plot.
At least if the TV series makes it this far they can condense it all down into something a bit more exciting.
GRRM has caught 'Robert Jordan' disease. Multiplying POVs that seems to have less and less to do with the main storyline. Main characters simply marking time until something interesting can happen. Description becoming ever more important at the expense of plot and character development.
GRRM was initially planning to have a five year break after ASOS and you can see why. Because there is very little happening that advances the main plot.
At least if the TV series makes it this far they can condense it all down into something a bit more exciting.
I myself felt frustration at the both AFfC and ADwD, but I do not think anything was just 'marking time'. After reading how intricate this stuff is and how you need to be Columbo to read between the lines, I think then the whole series is finished people will look back and see these chapters as indispensible.
I like the Jon is brood of R+L theory, also like the Tyrion might be a b
d of R as well...are these mutually exclusive? I am veering towards Griff being the mummer.
richtea78 said:
Excellent, I was wondering what I would do at work this afternoon 
Although I do disagree with some of the theories at least.
Which?Although I do disagree with some of the theories at least.
I like the Jon is brood of R+L theory, also like the Tyrion might be a b
d of R as well...are these mutually exclusive? I am veering towards Griff being the mummer.Halb said:
I myself felt frustration at the both AFfC and ADwD, but I do not think anything was just 'marking time'. After reading how intricate this stuff is and how you need to be Columbo to read between the lines, I think then the whole series is finished people will look back and see these chapters as indispensible.
‘indispensible’Well let’s see by looking at the major characters.
Tyrion spent the whole book travelling to be with Dany and still hadn’t made it by the end of the book.
Dany spent the whole book dithering and nothing had been resolved by the end.
Brienne went on a tour of the riverlands, chapters could have been reduced by two thirds with no impact on the story.
This new Targ introduced at the last minute is probably a fake or will not be there by the end.
Sideplots profilerate, the Ironborn, the stories in Dorne and so forth, and remember there is supposed to be only two more books to resolve all this.
A few characters did progress Sansa, Arya and, most of all, Jon. On the whole though the story stagnated. Why did we need to spend a whole book in Mereen and still not have left the rather dull place?, why are so many chapters devoted to the aftermath of the war in the riverlands?, it is not particularly exciting.
This was less than one books material spread over two very large books.
I actually quite like the detail, for me it makes it seem more real which I realise is a bit of a stupid statement but I will try to explain. In a lot of "fantasy" works you get the big battles and the magic and thats it, but with this you get to see the characters coping with everyday things, like the chapter with Dany listening to all the people at the court, when at the end the guy brings in the bones eaten by the Dragon.
I guess real might be the wrong word but it adds depth to the characters.
Im also not so sure that the Dorne stuff is irrelevent, it may well be important later.
GRRM has said though that this is the widest that the plot will get and it will start to reduce going forward.
Halb - the main theory I dont like is that Syrio was Jaqen/ Faceless man. I think the R+L=J could well prove to be true although not so sure about the Tyrion one. The dwarfism could be a birth defect which would possibly indicate Targ blood as they are very inbred but I really cant see it being likely. However I have a nasty habit of totally misjudging what will happen.
The last theory I read was that J=PwP which Im kind of hoping is true
I guess real might be the wrong word but it adds depth to the characters.
Im also not so sure that the Dorne stuff is irrelevent, it may well be important later.
GRRM has said though that this is the widest that the plot will get and it will start to reduce going forward.
Halb - the main theory I dont like is that Syrio was Jaqen/ Faceless man. I think the R+L=J could well prove to be true although not so sure about the Tyrion one. The dwarfism could be a birth defect which would possibly indicate Targ blood as they are very inbred but I really cant see it being likely. However I have a nasty habit of totally misjudging what will happen.
The last theory I read was that J=PwP which Im kind of hoping is true
richtea78 said:
I actually quite like the detail, for me it makes it seem more real which I realise is a bit of a stupid statement but I will try to explain. In a lot of "fantasy" works you get the big battles and the magic and thats it, but with this you get to see the characters coping with everyday things, like the chapter with Dany listening to all the people at the court, when at the end the guy brings in the bones eaten by the Dragon.
Quite. I think all the characters prograssed, not just Sansa, Tyrion and Dany did.richtea78 said:
Halb - the main theory I dont like is that Syrio was Jaqen/ Faceless man. I think the R+L=J could well prove to be true although not so sure about the Tyrion one. The dwarfism could be a birth defect which would possibly indicate Targ blood as they are very inbred but I really cant see it being likely. However I have a nasty habit of totally misjudging what will happen.
The last theory I read was that J=PwP which Im kind of hoping is true
Yeh I don't like that one either. The last theory I read was that J=PwP which Im kind of hoping is true
I think that Jon and Dany are each PwP or AA, not sure which is which.
The faceless man at the start and end of (I forget which book ADwD?) who becomes Pate(again not sure of name), any clue on him?
richtea78 said:
I actually quite like the detail, for me it makes it seem more real which I realise is a bit of a stupid statement but I will try to explain. In a lot of "fantasy" works you get the big battles and the magic and thats it, but with this you get to see the characters coping with everyday things, like the chapter with Dany listening to all the people at the court, when at the end the guy brings in the bones eaten by the Dragon.
The first three books had masses of detail, old fueds, remembrances of the war etc. Westeros was a fully realised world AND the plot moved forward.The trouble with the level of detail in ADWD is where the detail has been added. The key battle in all of this is going to be the 'others' attack on Westeros. In the first three books the east was important not for what is depicted, but because it was a place for Dany to become ready to take the throne, both in the resources she had amassed and in her own personality. The east was fairly sketchily depicted and had so little depth precisely because that was all the function it served in the main plot. Now we are forced to spend much of a book there and it turns out to be a rather dull place. I love proper world building, but it should not be for its own sake, but serve the plot.
Just a headsup, book 1 available for £1.99 delivered.
http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/a-game-thrones-boo...
http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/a-game-thrones-boo...
yeh, three. They are taken from short stories martin wrote. Aboot two characters from 100 years before the current events.
The second one is normal price, around a tenner...the first is £40...which I shall still no doubt buy since I am a big GN fan anyway
I just bought League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Century and Black Dossier
The second one is normal price, around a tenner...the first is £40...which I shall still no doubt buy since I am a big GN fan anyway
I just bought League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Century and Black Dossier
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