RE: Wash and wax, sir?
Discussion
So if they are not fast and reliable. You buy something better! Same as a scratch wash is crap in comparison to a detail!
If people have have a desire to own nice cars why do they not have the same desire to have them look good?
This is just something that really intrigues me!
Cheers
If people have have a desire to own nice cars why do they not have the same desire to have them look good?
This is just something that really intrigues me!
Cheers
I don't use Paul - I use Dave Bowerman, the only detailer other than Paul in the UK allowed to use Zymol Royale.
The big difference between detailing and car cleaning is the effort you need to put in to keep it looking good. My car just needs a spray with the Zymol stuff Dave left me when he detailed my Alvis and a wipe with a damp cloth.
I agree that £5k is a LOT of money for a car clean, but if your car is worth it, it'll save you a fortune in car cleaning stuff afterwards and hours of your time.
Dave charges a LOT less than Paul, but I've never met anyone as passionate about cleaning cars!
I'd advocate detailing for people who can't be arsed to clean their car properly, because for about £20 a week, you'll never have to again - ever.
The big difference between detailing and car cleaning is the effort you need to put in to keep it looking good. My car just needs a spray with the Zymol stuff Dave left me when he detailed my Alvis and a wipe with a damp cloth.
I agree that £5k is a LOT of money for a car clean, but if your car is worth it, it'll save you a fortune in car cleaning stuff afterwards and hours of your time.
Dave charges a LOT less than Paul, but I've never met anyone as passionate about cleaning cars!
I'd advocate detailing for people who can't be arsed to clean their car properly, because for about £20 a week, you'll never have to again - ever.
autoshine said:
So if they are not fast and reliable. You buy something better! Same as a scratch wash is crap in comparison to a detail!
If people have have a desire to own nice cars why do they not have the same desire to have them look good?
This is just something that really intrigues me!
Cheers
If people have have a desire to own nice cars why do they not have the same desire to have them look good?
This is just something that really intrigues me!
Cheers
Law of diminishing returns.
A £3 jetwash gives a poor result but after a salty drive is a good idea.
A £10 hand wash gives a good result if you know the place.
A £100 OPC Valet gives an amazing result.
A £250 full detail will make the car like new or better.
BUT........
A morning's elbow grease and some decent products is FREE and you get great results.
I bought the car to drive it and enjoy it. So I go for the last option. A bottle of decent car shampoo (such as Zymol Autowash for £10), some decent wax and rubber care, and a few hours every other weekend. Once a year the dealer gives it a steam clean as part of the service just to get the grime out underneath.
If I was lucky enough to have a McLaren F1 I doubt I would spend more than a couple of hundred quid twice a year having it cleaned up. I'd get too much pleasure from cleaning it myself and as I said, if I spent £5k having it detailed I know FULL well that it will get stone chipped and rained on the way home.....!!
The £5k car detail is, as far as I am concerened, consumed by people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing - the same people who consume Cristal Champagne (there are infinitely better ones for a quarter of the price), £500 Kobe beef burgers (minced fillet steak from Waitrose makes a far superior product) and £1000 Nicky Clarke haircuts (a pair of clippers for £10 from Boots will make you look far smarter!!). All show, no go......?
But christ, if you can afford it, then fair play to you - you're doing better in life than me!!
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 22 August 08:16
It should be noted that Paul's average cost is about 300-600 GBP per car, often including paint correction, ie removal of swirl makes, fading, bird stains and scratches. The 5k detail is a two week 'Pinnacle' showcase treatment - like how car audio manufacturers put widescreens and playstations with a million amp system in a car to show off, yet most installs will be a fraction of that complication and cost.
At 75 GBP per hour, he charges half of what a prestige main dealer does for servicing your car in London. And you get Paul doing you work, whereas sometimes a main dealer may allow the work experience boy or junior tech to twiddle the spanners, under close-ish supervision if you're lucky.
And with paint correction being applied to even new cars at delivery (because the cosmoline delivery coating has been inexpertly removed and the car washed with a gritty sponge) he can be significantly cheaper than a respray costing 4k.
So maybe he's actually absurdly good value
At 75 GBP per hour, he charges half of what a prestige main dealer does for servicing your car in London. And you get Paul doing you work, whereas sometimes a main dealer may allow the work experience boy or junior tech to twiddle the spanners, under close-ish supervision if you're lucky.
And with paint correction being applied to even new cars at delivery (because the cosmoline delivery coating has been inexpertly removed and the car washed with a gritty sponge) he can be significantly cheaper than a respray costing 4k.
So maybe he's actually absurdly good value
900T-R said:
ehasler said:
If you've got enough money to be able to spend £5k on having your car detailed, then I very much doubt that you're stupid!
Two words: Paris Hilton.
Yeah, right.
Pauls work looks fantastic, granted. But I like many, am a tad sceptical of the £5k+ price tags on the top end jobs. It's the 'paint correction' that irks me some.. I mean, there is only so much you can actually do to paint and lacquer once its on the car. If its fudged up somehow, then its fudged up, and no amount of fancy wax made from extinct Dodo feather oil pressed between the breasts of virgins from the Tazmanian outback is going to fix it. I don't consider swirl marks and the like £5k's worth of black art to eradicate. Common sense, good wax and elbow grease will soon sort that in most instances.
I recently sold one of my cars, and I spent 2 days cleaning it inside and out myself. For wax I used a £12 bottle of Zymol whatever it was from Halfrauds.
The end result looked fantastic, it really did.. Better than the car was when I picked it up from new. I did claybar some area's of paint also, but mostly, it was just a decent quality wax, common sense and a lots and lots of elbow grease. I honestly can't see how I could have made it look any better than it did. And I doubt anyone else could have bettered it either. If I had charged someone for that same job, then I don't know what I would have asked, but I think I would have felt guilty/uncomfortable asking more than £200-£300 for my efforts. I might add a bit if the owner insisted on having each groove in the tyres licked clean or something, plus a bit more if they lived in Slough.
Also, I realise a good wax job lasts a lot longer and makes a car easier to clean in future.. But again, £5k's worth? £5k buys something like 17 perfectly good and extensive detailing sessions at £300 or so.
Sure, if someone has a Veyron or Enzo or whatever, then they can indeed afford the best detailing job. But then they can probably afford to keep themselves warm in winter by having their butler chuck £5k bundles of cash onto their fire as well. Just because 'they can' and it does the job perfectly well, that doesn't make it a good thing, does it?
Sorry, im not trying to knock Pauls work (much). As evidently its not like he charges 5 big ones for every job he does, and it seems that regardless of what you pay, the end result will be impressive. But if people are actually willing to pay some of those 'higher' prices, then more power to Paul! I'd be laughing all the way to the bank too if I was him
Cheers, P
I recently sold one of my cars, and I spent 2 days cleaning it inside and out myself. For wax I used a £12 bottle of Zymol whatever it was from Halfrauds.
The end result looked fantastic, it really did.. Better than the car was when I picked it up from new. I did claybar some area's of paint also, but mostly, it was just a decent quality wax, common sense and a lots and lots of elbow grease. I honestly can't see how I could have made it look any better than it did. And I doubt anyone else could have bettered it either. If I had charged someone for that same job, then I don't know what I would have asked, but I think I would have felt guilty/uncomfortable asking more than £200-£300 for my efforts. I might add a bit if the owner insisted on having each groove in the tyres licked clean or something, plus a bit more if they lived in Slough.
Also, I realise a good wax job lasts a lot longer and makes a car easier to clean in future.. But again, £5k's worth? £5k buys something like 17 perfectly good and extensive detailing sessions at £300 or so.
Sure, if someone has a Veyron or Enzo or whatever, then they can indeed afford the best detailing job. But then they can probably afford to keep themselves warm in winter by having their butler chuck £5k bundles of cash onto their fire as well. Just because 'they can' and it does the job perfectly well, that doesn't make it a good thing, does it?
Sorry, im not trying to knock Pauls work (much). As evidently its not like he charges 5 big ones for every job he does, and it seems that regardless of what you pay, the end result will be impressive. But if people are actually willing to pay some of those 'higher' prices, then more power to Paul! I'd be laughing all the way to the bank too if I was him
Cheers, P
PJR said:
If its fudged up somehow, then its fudged up, and no amount of fancy wax made from extinct Dodo feather oil pressed between the breasts of virgins from the Tazmanian outback is going to fix it.
I believe a previous thread regarding said wax concluded the operative term was - "dodo's bollock juice". HTH
Paint correction doesn't mean applying wax to a surface... that would only hide a few paint defects whilst the wax remains on the car (by filling in scratches).
Paul removes or 'cuts' a micron or two off the paint, to re-level it. He uses a rotary polisher - not even an orbital one - to do this and some industrial grade cutting compounds. To say you need skill to do this is an understatement - you or I could T-cut the odd panel, but Paul removes clearcoat precisely and consistently on a panel, so that the base coat can shine through scratch-free. A respray on an enzo will be well over 10 grand, so this isn't something to try yourself with a buffing pad on your angle grinder
Because almost anyone can detail a car given a bit of knowledge of the theories and a few decent products (but you'd need 100-200 GBP just to get the basic stuff, from microfibre towels to grit guards, even without pressure washer and expensive wax), Paul sets himself apart by restoring paint - something that is skill based and difficult to 'have a go' at.
Even then, paint restoration and detailing will rarely exceed a grand, the 5k detail is multiple applications of wax, effectively doing the same car about three times over. You'd be knocked off your perch after the first one, believe me... the rest is depth of shine and quite unnecessary to my layman's eyes, but if your Veyron must shine more than your neighbours, needs must!
Paul removes or 'cuts' a micron or two off the paint, to re-level it. He uses a rotary polisher - not even an orbital one - to do this and some industrial grade cutting compounds. To say you need skill to do this is an understatement - you or I could T-cut the odd panel, but Paul removes clearcoat precisely and consistently on a panel, so that the base coat can shine through scratch-free. A respray on an enzo will be well over 10 grand, so this isn't something to try yourself with a buffing pad on your angle grinder
Because almost anyone can detail a car given a bit of knowledge of the theories and a few decent products (but you'd need 100-200 GBP just to get the basic stuff, from microfibre towels to grit guards, even without pressure washer and expensive wax), Paul sets himself apart by restoring paint - something that is skill based and difficult to 'have a go' at.
Even then, paint restoration and detailing will rarely exceed a grand, the 5k detail is multiple applications of wax, effectively doing the same car about three times over. You'd be knocked off your perch after the first one, believe me... the rest is depth of shine and quite unnecessary to my layman's eyes, but if your Veyron must shine more than your neighbours, needs must!
Edited by domster on Tuesday 22 August 14:52
This is my effort:
Took me ages with Meguiars products. I still think it could be much better and there are lots of swirly marks from where the garage waxed it before i picked it up
My effort is nowhere near in the league of miracle detail. Having tried to do a good job and falling miserably by the wayside in comparison to his skills, hats off to him. I wish I could afford for him to do the ds.
Matt
Took me ages with Meguiars products. I still think it could be much better and there are lots of swirly marks from where the garage waxed it before i picked it up
My effort is nowhere near in the league of miracle detail. Having tried to do a good job and falling miserably by the wayside in comparison to his skills, hats off to him. I wish I could afford for him to do the ds. Matt
Well done, the DS looks great
It is annoying about swirl marks. Once pointed out to me, I have never been the same again - I keep spotting them and inspecting paintwork. Very sad. Lots of new cars at the london motorshow had them... it only takes a muppet to drop the sponge on the floor once whilst washing a panel and the damage is done.
Polishing and waxing can work wonders, Paul's paint correction is really quite an extreme service in most cases. You need quite deep swirl marks, ie ones that don't budge with polish/glaze. Wax makes cars look good by filling in the scratches though, so just waxing regularly would keep it looking pretty good.
It is annoying about swirl marks. Once pointed out to me, I have never been the same again - I keep spotting them and inspecting paintwork. Very sad. Lots of new cars at the london motorshow had them... it only takes a muppet to drop the sponge on the floor once whilst washing a panel and the damage is done.
Polishing and waxing can work wonders, Paul's paint correction is really quite an extreme service in most cases. You need quite deep swirl marks, ie ones that don't budge with polish/glaze. Wax makes cars look good by filling in the scratches though, so just waxing regularly would keep it looking pretty good.
domster said:
burwoodman said:
And to the guy who said a detailer deserves £70 an hour for their time-yeah, sure he does-get a life.
That was me.
I can't believe you'd deny Paul 70 GBP an hour... unbelievable. He's invested thousands in waxes, paint measurement gauges and a Merc van complete with its own warm water and air supply. And IMO, as someone who has met him and seen what he has done for the paint on my car, is probably the best paint corrector and detailer in the UK, if not the world. He's on another level; like some paint science geek or something. It's like ringing for a taxi and Schumacher turns up in a Gallardo!!!
And you're there basically implying he's a bucket and sponge merchant, when you'd pay 70 GBP an hour at your local Rover dealer (probably very average at what they do) or at a solicitors for someone very mediocre to do your conveyancing. Now that is unbelievable.
I hope it's not just because 70 GBP is more than you get an hour
And yet we have entire threads devoted to whinging about having to pay 10 or 20 quid to see a dentist or GP!
Well......
To the person who said that they spent the whole wk end 'detailing' their car and would feel uncomfortable charging very much for it:
You obviously have never been in business!!! It is very different having a few bits from Halfrauds and a s load of time on your hands!
This is the trouble people do not appreciate the associated costs involved with stocking proper equiptment/chemicals let alone the operating costs of insurances ect!
Also as previously stated a bit of elbow grease and some wax will not rectify defects in paint. Like anything it is 90% prep. You could have the all new super shine mega bling ultra wet dogs knackers wax but, without the PROPER prep it will look crap!
Also to say that many people seem 'caught' on the 5K thing, this is NOT the norm and if this is what is putting you off having your car properly cared for please don't let it! Many valeters/detailers local to you I am sure would be more than happy to work to your pocket [large or small]. Even having the car washed properly will help. And by properly I don't mean a blow over with the jetwash and sponge!
Cheers
To the person who said that they spent the whole wk end 'detailing' their car and would feel uncomfortable charging very much for it:
You obviously have never been in business!!! It is very different having a few bits from Halfrauds and a s load of time on your hands!
This is the trouble people do not appreciate the associated costs involved with stocking proper equiptment/chemicals let alone the operating costs of insurances ect!
Also as previously stated a bit of elbow grease and some wax will not rectify defects in paint. Like anything it is 90% prep. You could have the all new super shine mega bling ultra wet dogs knackers wax but, without the PROPER prep it will look crap!
Also to say that many people seem 'caught' on the 5K thing, this is NOT the norm and if this is what is putting you off having your car properly cared for please don't let it! Many valeters/detailers local to you I am sure would be more than happy to work to your pocket [large or small]. Even having the car washed properly will help. And by properly I don't mean a blow over with the jetwash and sponge!
Cheers
[quote=Vesuvius 996
Law of diminishing returns.
A £3 jetwash gives a poor result but after a salty drive is a good idea.
A £10 hand wash gives a good result if you know the place.
A £100 OPC Valet gives an amazing result.
A £250 full detail will make the car like new or better.
BUT........
[/quote]
Then of course this place -
Might/might not do a good job, but you'll come away feeling a lot better
Law of diminishing returns.
A £3 jetwash gives a poor result but after a salty drive is a good idea.
A £10 hand wash gives a good result if you know the place.
A £100 OPC Valet gives an amazing result.
A £250 full detail will make the car like new or better.
BUT........
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 22 August 08:16
[/quote]
Then of course this place -
Might/might not do a good job, but you'll come away feeling a lot better
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