Prejudiced against Rice rockets?

[FLAT_STEVE]

Gazboy said:

toppstuff said: Take that bloody rear spolier off ! Then it would look great. Some bigger dark alloy wheels would look good too. I've been trying to find opics of an emasculated one, but it appears they are quite rare- my wife is standing over my shoulder and I have to go- bye!

Here's a de-spoilered one...





Here's another...



>> Edited by FLAT_STEVE on Tuesday 7th September 20:05

[DanBoy]

PHWOAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!

Oh look - No doir handles! Don't like the wheels either.

>> Edited by DanBoy on Tuesday 7th September 20:08

[toppstuff]

FLAT_STEVE said:

Now thats better.

The wheels are a well OTT. They would have to come off straight away.

But the body looks really nice. WAY better without the spoiler.

C'mon, you know its true.

I admit to being a car snob at times, but a nice Supra without the spoilers appeals to me.

[Pigeon]

Gazboy said:

Pigeon said: I'd think the "small engine with big turbos" vs. "big engine with lots of grunt" issue has a bearing on the matter. It's a three litre straight six! How big do you need it?

Three point eight litres DOHC with triple SUs... oops, wrong country, wrong era, my personal space/time warp seems to be kicking in again

Seriously, I was talking in terms of the thread title - are PHers prejudiced against Japanese cars - in general, rather than specifically of the Supra. I don't deny that there are honourable exceptions, but by and large the Japanese seem to prefer boost to cubes.

My preference tends to lean towards cubes, unless the boost comes from a supercharger rather than a turbo. It seems to me that a significant number of PHers feel the same way (cue all the turbo drivers posting "Not me!" )

[v8thunder]

My personal engine preference is in terms of how to make power useable, so it's: below 2 litres = turbocharged, 2-3 litres nominally aspirated, 3 litres and above = supercharged.

Why? Well, a sub-2 litre engine tends to run out of steam , but has good early acceleration, hence the need for a turbo. 2-3 litres provides plenty of grunt and a pretty constand acceleration curve for normal driving. Over 3 litres and in supercar/muscle car territory, off-the-line speed means they can be sluggish and unwieldy in day-to-day use, so a supercharger ensures constant acceleration.

[yertis]

I'm prejudiced against ricers on the basis of my brother-in-laws Impreza, new shape, pink badged STi import (which means something special apparently). It goes like stink and sticks like glue, and these are good things. But... inside it sounds not unlike my Mums Datsun Cherry, all whiney, buzzy gearbox noise. It rides like a go-kart. And (I don't how they manage to do this) it manages to be superbly well put together whilst simultaneously feeling cheap and tinny.

My experience when I drove an EVO VI Makkinen Edition for a while was the same, plus I felt a twat driving a car with a little bi-plane stuck on the bootlid. Very tiring on a run over 20 minutes.

I think what we call prejudice is actually just different taste. Some people eat lots of curry, but other (strange) people can't stand the stuff.

[McNab]

I think toppstuff's 100% right on this one. I kept mine nearly five years and gave it quite a hard time on empty Scottish country roads - cost under £300 a year to service, and the only thing ever wrong with it was a weak handbrake when new.

OK, I had two or three sets of tyres on it, plus the £1,000 I spent on upgrading to 420bhp, but it was still fantastic value and a truly great drive. Probably one of the best cars I ever owned, and much loved by the next owner who knocked it up to 550bhp.

Looks? See pic below. Would have been better with a much smaller spoiler but I peferred it's shape to my present car!

The problem is that it's almost impossible to find a low mileage example today.

[DanBoy]

Gaz, a mate and fellow MR2 owner gave me the link to the pic.

[lotuslad]

DanBoy said:

PHWOAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!! No doir handles!

Be ye from Corrrnwall, lad?

One of our newest members, Turbonelly, has a very fast MR2 with all sorts of bits and bobs done to it - he has pics in his profile.

He's also thinking of selling it if anyone fancies a 300bhp Mister Two.

[Dakkon]

Tuning companies in Japan have got over 700bhp out of the 3SGTE engine these days

[Mr E]

Dakkon said:

Tuning companies in Japan have got over 700bhp out of the 3SGTE engine these days

Yes. And I want one. The four would *fly* with that sort of geunt.

I just haven't got the required £60K for the engine and new brakes and gearbox etc etc.

I like my rice rocket, and I'll be having stong words with people who dismiss it out of hand*.


*If I can catch them

Yes, the Supra is a Porsche 928.
Yes, the Mx5 is a Lotus Elan.

So?

Fords current supercar is a carbon copy of a 40 year old monster. Does it make it any less of a car?

Hell no.

[tuttle]

My two cents
Japanese Performance cars Fantastic (mostly).
Agreed many interiors are a bit plasticy etc & exterior styling often lacks that 'something special'there does seem to be a Japanese generic look.
Appearance aside.engine & systems design,often show a level of expertise normally associated with 'Tutonic ruthlessly thorough'designs.Engine performance,build quality& reliability are generally great.There are a few outstanding examples too;MR2's-an affordable sports car,with massive potential for power & handling gains.It should have almost iconic status,& almost anyone can have one (the elite-ist issue aside).Skylines/Supras-loads of power,great'presence'& will get you from one end of the country to the other effortlessly.Evos,VR4s & Subaru-great handling for challenging conditions.The list could go on.
I feel many Jap owners recognise that the majority of these cars have great potential,& we are lucky that there is a well tested,organised & accessable after-market performance industry.-Set up-Just For Us!,It creates,(on the whole),well designed,worthwhile & affordable modifications-Bingo! You can almost build(not from scratch admittedly)a car to your own spec/dreams.
Because a car starts every time,& performs reliably doesnt make it boring.In the same way that cars that rarely start regularly,have character as a result.I want to use my machines when I want to-not when it wants to.
Enjoy motoring & enjoy your car(where ever it came from) I still get huge kicks nearly every time I'm in mine-Thats good

[Simon B]

Stig said:

Shame the bottom pulleys shear off on a regular basis.....

Not sure where that comes from, I've never heard of this problem in several years of membership of the owners club/forum.

I'm also not sure why people assume you can't work on the engine, it's not that complicated or sealed up or anything. I do all my own maintenance and tinker about with a few modifications.

I think the whole Jap Fast&Furious cliche is a bit like the "TVRs are always on the back of a transporter" one. Both are bandied around by the uninitiated, both have an element of truth.

Finding a low mileage Supra is still pretty easy - just buy a newer grey import. Mine had 16000 miles on the clock when I bought it a few years ago - the Supra was still made in Japan until 2002. One of the most enduring myths is that the imports are less powerful than the UK cars. Both have around 320bhp as standard, with the same amount of torque. The famous "gentlemen's agreement" is responsible for the Japanese car's 280bhp claim.

[v8thunder]

Saw a Honda NSX today - wow. Goes against all the criticisms of Japanese cars I've seen on here - styling was smooth and devoid of plastic tat, the interior looked classy (if a little sober compared to a Ferrari), and the engine, whilst not enthralling on start-up, revved like a bastard when moving, making the thing sound like it had a whole load of 'bike engines out back.

Only problem was, it was white...

[LuS1fer]

I rather like this. For those too young to remember, that front end comes from Toyota's 1960's 2000GT as featured in the Bond film "You Onry Rive Twice".

I've got nothing but respect for Japanese engineering although it tends to be complex for the sake of it and they're pretty quick. Needless to say, the Japanese are really good at stealing other people's designs but they do it so well. MX5 Elan, MR2 Dino, 70's Celica Mustang but I've never felt fired enough to really want one. I've had a couple of Toyota saloons and you have to respect the sheer clockwork banality of them but that makes them good.

I do like the styling of many Japanese coupes - all the Celicas bar the funny quad lamp froggy one, the MR2, the curvy RX7 and the 350Z. I also admire the way they take a really ugly car like the Scooby and somehow turn it into a desirable icon. It certainly puts huge performance in reach of not much money.

The Supra is a frog of a car in any sense and no, the Xenons don't improve it any more than a Ferrari kit improves an MR2 or Fiero. Reminds me of those awful Porsche kits they used to stick on Beetle chassis.

If buying new cars was compulsory and it had to be sensible, I'd probably buy a Celica. Luckily, it isn't.

[shnozz]

LuS1fer said:

I rather like this. For those too young to remember, that front end comes from Toyota's 1960's 2000GT as featured in the Bond film "You Onry Rive Twice".

not heard of that Bond film but I agree, that is a lovely looking car. Side and rear profiles also very DB9 as well, or is that just me. Never been a big fan of the current Supra but that is one sexy looking car for a big unit. Lovely.

Anyways, you want a yank tank you do

[LuS1fer]

I'll be fried for saying it but if the 2007 Camaro looks that good, I'll be in the queue to buy one...unlike the ugly-sticked C6. LOL.

[Simon B]

LuS1fer said:

The Supra is a frog of a car in any sense and no, the Xenons don't improve it any more than a Ferrari kit improves an MR2 or Fiero. Reminds me of those awful Porsche kits they used to stick on Beetle chassis.

Let's clear another one up of these misinformed posts then. By "98 Xenons" I presume what is meant is the facelift headlights, which were fitted from 95 not 98, and aren't Xenon - the bulbs are the same as before only the interior of the lights is dark grey rather than silver. So in fact has nothing to do with kits of any kind. This picture that Gazboy posted earlier is of a facelift car with the aforementioned lights:-

[Simon B]

Gazboy said:

The 1998- on Supras from Japan had 305bhp with the VVTLi engine. This is from a chap I know who eats, sleeps and breaths Supras, and worked for Toyota for 15 years. I'm too tired to explain now, talk later.

Actually no, this is wrong. I presume this came from the original so called 280 plus the fact that the VVTi was supposed to add 25 bhp, although strangely Toyota themselves continued to claim 280 for the VVTi as per the "gentlemen's agreement" as I said earlier.

The imports give the same power as the UK cars in standard form - this has been shown by dyno runs of both variants in standard form. The VVTi engine makes little difference to power - it was mainly done for emmissions reasons. Again, this is borne out by dyno runs which show the VVTi engine making slightly more perhaps than the previous engine (difficult to say as comparing dyno runs is of course rather hard unless it was done on the same dyno, preferably a hub based one).

-Edited to add that standard power for UK and imports is as I said earlier, around 320BHP.

>> Edited by Simon B on Thursday 9th September 21:12

[hornet]

Is it me, or does that new Supra have more than a hint of 70's muscle car about the front end?