Blue Flags

Author
Discussion

Kraken

1,710 posts

202 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
quotequote all
I think going back to that rule would work now as they didn't have DRS before. There's no reason why a fast car should struggle for lap after lap.

thegreenhell

15,863 posts

221 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
quotequote all
Kraken said:
I think going back to that rule would work now as they didn't have DRS before. There's no reason why a fast car should struggle for lap after lap.
But they demonstrably do struggle. Drivers complain on the radio "Where are the blue flags? I can't get close enough to pass". Or maybe it's just certain drivers who struggle...

Eric Mc

122,332 posts

267 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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It's about expectation. They now expect back markers to leap out of the way when the leaders start coming through and get annoyed when they don't.

entropy

5,497 posts

205 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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James Hunt on Rene Arnoux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khA67-r5lSQ

James Hunt on Jean-Pierre Jarier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHS53krjxkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e16fDASkcGY

The current blue flag system is a bit of a necessary evil. Yes, leaders should make there way through traffic but worth remembering that there were drivers Andre De Cesaris having notoriety for unwillingness to yield.

Imagine if Kimi or Bottas or even affilliated teams/drivers were a lap down with Hamilton/Vettel coming through? How far would a lapped driver go to or be allowed to block/hold up leaders? You'll end up going back to the current system more or less works; drivers are warned of quicker cars are going to lap you and given a chance to yield so you could effectively hold up a leader for a couple of corners.



sparta6

Original Poster:

3,708 posts

102 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Or maybe it's just certain drivers who struggle...
^^this^^

Alonso and Max seem able to get close and make passes almost immediately

sparta6

Original Poster:

3,708 posts

102 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It's about expectation. They now expect back markers to leap out of the way when the leaders start coming through and get annoyed when they don't.
Yes.

Traffic out on their own is one thing - a blue flag is not going to significantly mess up their race

Traffic engaged in their own close battle is quite another thing. It's the responsibility of a top driver to find his way past slower cars.

Condi

17,398 posts

173 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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sparta6 said:
Alonso and Max seem able to get close and make passes almost immediately
Really?

How often has Alonso had to pass back markers in the last 3 or 4 years? If at all. And Max has hardly had to pass many. Maybe once or twice.

Lewis found it very difficult to pass the other week, even with blue flags, because the drivers in front were racing each other and not giving space. Had they not moved at all I doubt he would have got passed, while at the same time Vettle behind made up 2 seconds. If the world champion, in the fastest car, in one of his best races all season struggled to pass a pair of back markets, what is the chance of many other people doing the same?

geeks

9,263 posts

141 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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Condi said:
sparta6 said:
Alonso and Max seem able to get close and make passes almost immediately
Really?

How often has Alonso had to pass back markers in the last 3 or 4 years? If at all. And Max has hardly had to pass many. Maybe once or twice.

Lewis found it very difficult to pass the other week, even with blue flags, because the drivers in front were racing each other and not giving space. Had they not moved at all I doubt he would have got passed, while at the same time Vettle behind made up 2 seconds. If the world champion, in the fastest car, in one of his best races all season struggled to pass a pair of back markets, what is the chance of many other people doing the same?
He had no trouble getting up close though did he?

Condi

17,398 posts

173 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
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geeks said:
He had no trouble getting up close though did he?
No, but if he cant get passed all you'll end up with is a train following a slow car. Nobody wants to see that.

sparta6

Original Poster:

3,708 posts

102 months

Wednesday 26th September 2018
quotequote all
Condi said:
No, but if he cant get passed all you'll end up with is a train following a slow car. Nobody wants to see that.
Exactly right.

Current regulations make a mockery of "racing".

Faster drivers should be encouraged and rewarded to have a do-or-die run up the inside of a slower car.

But, if they so much as touch now, it's flagged up as UNDER INVESTIGATION.

There is way too much to lose for drivers with daring overtakes to compensate for the crappy aero etc.



coppice

8,698 posts

146 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Blue flags per se are not the problem . Their purpose is to alert the slower driver to the presence , actual or imminent , of a faster car which is about to lap the slower.The problem is the absurd sense of entitlement which F1 drivers now have when catching a slower car , with demands for penalties , whingeing over the radio and the usual guff which characterises a race series in free fall decline unless it gets its act together. Starting with cars than can overtake - and not with silly DRS either

Exige77

6,519 posts

193 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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coppice said:
Blue flags per se are not the problem . Their purpose is to alert the slower driver to the presence , actual or imminent , of a faster car which is about to lap the slower.The problem is the absurd sense of entitlement which F1 drivers now have when catching a slower car , with demands for penalties , whingeing over the radio and the usual guff which characterises a race series in free fall decline unless it gets its act together. Starting with cars than can overtake - and not with silly DRS either
There’s no sense on entitlement, it’s the rules.

F1 is different to other lower Formulea.

You “must” let lapping drivers past after passing 3 blue flags or face a penalty.

Kraken

1,710 posts

202 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Exige77 said:
There’s no sense on entitlement, it’s the rules.

F1 is different to other lower Formulea.

You “must” let lapping drivers past after passing 3 blue flags or face a penalty.
Cause and effect. Those rules exist in F1 because of the moaning by drivers that they can't get by.

Exige77

6,519 posts

193 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Kraken said:
Exige77 said:
There’s no sense on entitlement, it’s the rules.

F1 is different to other lower Formulea.

You “must” let lapping drivers past after passing 3 blue flags or face a penalty.
Cause and effect. Those rules exist in F1 because of the moaning by drivers that they can't get by.
Maybe, but it’s still the rules.

It’s also the rules that make following and overtaking another slower car difficult.


Eric Mc

122,332 posts

267 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Rules are man made and can be changed.

They have not been handed down by some deity.

Exige77

6,519 posts

193 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Eric Mc said:
Rules are man made and can be changed.

They have not been handed down by some deity.
The issue is not the blue flags, the issue is the aero rules stop cars closely following and overtaking.

Blue flags in F1 is just a red herring.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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When you see footage like this then blue flags are a must

Mark Blundell with a brain removed.

To think he is a race steward now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbtzabkwUQs

eccles

13,753 posts

224 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
When you see footage like this then blue flags are a must

Mark Blundell with a brain removed.

To think he is a race steward now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbtzabkwUQs
Can you imagine the whining today by the usual suspect if that happened! biggrin

Kraken

1,710 posts

202 months

Friday 28th September 2018
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Well maybe if they stopped with sticking plaster solutions like the blue flag rules and DRS and actually addressed the fundamental issue the "sport" might go somewhere.

It will never happen though as the teams have far too much power and aren't the slightest bit interested in the show. Every time something is tried to sort out the aero issues it gets watered down or someone finds a loophole to exploit.

hammo19

5,172 posts

198 months

Saturday 29th September 2018
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sparta6 said:
Traffic engaged in their own close battle is quite another thing. It's the responsibility of a top driver to find his way past slower cars.
......this, well said. It’s a race so in every situation it should be so