****Winter Testing #1 Jerez****

[PhillipM]

Because they had the best integration of powertrain to chassis and the associated aero benefits that came with it. Which is why they were faster in the high speed, high downforce corners than any other team, so I don't buy that RB had a better config there. Similar perhaps, but demonstrably better?

[NRS]

If you go off James Allison's numbers for Ferrari then around 0.65 seconds of the 1.1 seconds they were off the pace was down to the engine. When you combine that with the great chassis/ aero there is almost no way to come back from that in aero benefits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not meaning it was only the engine. However when you lose that much time because of the engine it would be very hard to recover that in other ways. Hence my point about McLaren needing to have an engine that is not too far behind in regards to power with the limited development they can do in the future, potentially sacrificing a season for the future.

[hornetrider]

See Sky got Niki Lauda pissing in the bushes on camera???

[rdjohn]

An excellent piece from Mark Hughes explaining how McLaren and Ferarri need to catch up on last year's Mercedes

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9695979/fe...

It makes you wonder why SKY continue with Ted's pitiful notebook, when they have someone who seems to understand the important issues within their team.

[suffolk009]

rdjohn said:

An excellent piece from Mark Hughes explaining how McLaren and Ferarri need to catch up on last year's Mercedes

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9695979/fe...

It makes you wonder why SKY continue with Ted's pitiful notebook, when they have someone who seems to understand the important issues within their team.

I know what you mean, but print and screen are very different media.

[entropy]

PhillipM said:

Because they had the best integration of powertrain to chassis and the associated aero benefits that came with it. Which is why they were faster in the high speed, high downforce corners than any other team, so I don't buy that RB had a better config there. Similar perhaps, but demonstrably better?

Not just packaging. They sussed out front downforce was just as crucial eg. the fork suspension instead of bog standard wishbones. The management of vortices through the front suspension created better DF. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/how-details-m...

RBR had terrific chassic/aero. How did they compete with Williams as second best car and a power deficit?

[Frimley111R]

London424 said:

McL are done for the day...power unit removal and inspection due to loss of cooling water pressure.

What a fk up. A team as big as McLaren should not have such issues. They'd had loads of time to sort this car out (4+ sessions or more?) and yet they can't even get a handful of laps (ok, 32 today at a snails pace). I am not saying they should have had a perfect test but simply getting out on track for more than 5 laps has been beyond them.

Who are Honda's engineers and why do McLaren think that they are any good without/with minimal experience of F1 engines? I know its early days but there's a mountain to climb for the team and every test puts them further behind everyone else. Not impressed.

Edited by Frimley111R on Tuesday 3rd February 16:27

[Lincsblokey]

Frimley111R said:

London424 said:

McL are done for the day...power unit removal and inspection due to loss of cooling water pressure.

What a fk up. A team as big as McLaren should not have such issues. They'd had loads of time to sort this car out and yet they can't even get a handful of laps (ok, 32 today at a snails pace). I am not saying they should have had a perfect test but simply getting out on track for more than 5 laps has been beyond them.

Who are Hondas engineers and why do McLaren think that they are any good without/with minimal experience of F1 engines? I know is early days but there's a mountain to climb for the team and every test puts them further behind everyone else. Not impressed.

Loads of time?

When?

Its the first time this engine has been used in anger on circuit, so many variables an engine test rig cant account for, its done way more on its second day than many of the teams did in total at jerez last year.

As for Honda, i think they know what they are doing to be fair..

[NRS]

Lincsblokey said:

Loads of time?

When?

Its the first time this engine has been used in anger on circuit, so many variables an engine test rig cant account for, its done way more on its second day than many of the teams did in total at jerez last year.

As for Honda, i think they know what they are doing to be fair..

I suspect not. How does building the engine for a Jazz help here?

[Some Gump]

I love how up in arms some of you lot are re. the McL difficulties.

Say today's issue is a hose off / holed due to vibration. Nothing worrying there - but if it's in an inaccessible place, it might be a 6 hour engine out / ancillaries off, fix hose, back in again. Et voila, lost an entire day.

It's testing. If there were no issues to worry about, then the packaging wasn't extreme enough. You see this every year with the cars at the sharp end - overheating RBR's are a given on day 1 of a new season for example. I really can't get how people can be so disparaging towards Honda's engineers, implying they're idiots - if the posters involved were better then surely they'd be in Jerez, not behind a keyboard?

[RichB]

Some Gump said:

I love how up in arms some of you lot are re. the McL difficulties.

Say today's issue is a hose off / holed due to vibration. Nothing worrying there - but if it's in an inaccessible place, it might be a 6 hour engine out / ancillaries off, fix hose, back in again. Et voila, lost an entire day.

It's testing. If there were no issues to worry about, then the packaging wasn't extreme enough. You see this every year with the cars at the sharp end - overheating RBR's are a given on day 1 of a new season for example. I really can't get how people can be so disparaging towards Honda's engineers, implying they're idiots - if the posters involved were better then surely they'd be in Jerez, not behind a keyboard?

Indeed, there was someone on another thread stating, as if it was a fact, how the engineers at McLaren had cleverly overcome the heat issues simply based on a picture of the new colour scheme, and this was before they'd even fired up the engine!

[Vocal Minority]

I don't think it is unreasonable to demand instant perfection from McLaren. I'm an armchair fan, and if I don't deserve instant satisfaction, then who does?!

I mean for fks sake, how hard can it fking be to produce the complicated power unit, house it in a brand new car and then be instantly up to speed with teams who are 12 months ahead of them.

I bet I could do it. Over the weekend. In fact, I'm calling Ron now.

[RichB]

I didn't think people gave a st as long as the colour scheme is red & white and looks good!

[AlexS]

Frimley111R said:

What a fk up. A team as big as McLaren should not have such issues. They'd had loads of time to sort this car out (4+ sessions or more?) and yet they can't even get a handful of laps (ok, 32 today at a snails pace). I am not saying they should have had a perfect test but simply getting out on track for more than 5 laps has been beyond them.

Who are Honda's engineers and why do McLaren think that they are any good without/with minimal experience of F1 engines? I know its early days but there's a mountain to climb for the team and every test puts them further behind everyone else. Not impressed.

Edited by Frimley111R on Tuesday 3rd February 16:27

4+ sessions? Today is only the 3rd day of testing and the engine is rather different from that used at Abu Dhabi last year.

[Frimley111R]

They have a complex new power unit yes but surely they have tested it enough on a rig for it to work better in the car. I don't accept that a hose came off in a difficult position, ok the position may just be unlucky but surely they have guys who just sit there working on hoses and are experienced enough to know if a hose will hold out? Sensors not working? Why the fk not? Did no-one consider/check this? I'm sorry if I sound harsh but there are hundreds of people working on one car with state of the art facilities. This is not good enough.

[Vocal Minority]

Edit - oh why bother

Edited by Vocal Minority on Tuesday 3rd February 18:13

[S0 What]

Some Gump said:

I love how up in arms some of you lot are re. the McL difficulties.

Say today's issue is a hose off / holed due to vibration. Nothing worrying there - but if it's in an inaccessible place, it might be a 6 hour engine out / ancillaries off, fix hose, back in again. Et voila, lost an entire day.

It's testing. If there were no issues to worry about, then the packaging wasn't extreme enough. You see this every year with the cars at the sharp end - overheating RBR's are a given on day 1 of a new season for example. I really can't get how people can be so disparaging towards Honda's engineers, implying they're idiots - if the posters involved were better then surely they'd be in Jerez, not behind a keyboard?

I know and it's exactly why they wont televise testing, not because it's boring (it is) but cos so many peoples heads would explode over sweet fanny adams!
The NHS is already stretched enough what with being run by a bunch of Aholes, imaging what would happen if suddenly every local A&E was swamped with F1 fans whos head had exploded cos teams were testing cars during testing

[F1GTRUeno]

McLaren livery looks a lot better here, like the West cars.

[Some Gump]

Frimley111R said:

They have a complex new power unit yes but surely they have tested it enough on a rig for it to work better in the car. I don't accept that a hose came off in a difficult position, ok the position may just be unlucky but surely they have guys who just sit there working on hoses and are experienced enough to know if a hose will hold out? Sensors not working? Why the fk not? Did no-one consider/check this? I'm sorry if I sound harsh but there are hundreds of people working on one car with state of the art facilities. This is not good enough.

I think you should go and see Monsiur Ojeh, tell him Ron isn't doing a good enough job, and offer to run the ship instead. Clearly, developing an F1 car is trivial.

[anonymous-user]

London424 said:

McL are done for the day...power unit removal and inspection due to loss of cooling water pressure.

Now this is more what you expect in winter testing, unlike yesterday and Sunday where it couldn't do a few laps. Cooling related stuff has to be proved in the actual car. It seems like they made a lot of progress today.